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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 549391 times)

Werdna

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #165 on: April 04, 2018, 03:43:14 pm »

No, I don't recall anywhere where he actually grabbed the head.  The crundle had over-exerted and was passed out, and that's when pages of gouging and occasional head blow started.  Once an attacker is knocked down, attackers seem to auto-focus on the head for a quicker kill.  In the past, that could lead to endless futility banging on a helmet, so Toady added the "remove the helmet" logic.  I'm suggesting a further extension - if the attacker can't even bash in the skull, either try choking instead, or at least try it occasionally, so it can break a futile combat loop.  I suppose there's a bug here as well; clearly the eyes should have been tagged as gone at some point and the gouging should have stopped.
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Putnam

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #166 on: April 04, 2018, 04:09:34 pm »

I always have a process when enemies go unconscious in a no-quarters fight:

1. Destroy the throat
2. Bash in head

(also remove any armor blocking those if that's a problem)

DwarfMines

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #167 on: April 05, 2018, 08:32:05 am »

The relevant personality facets are the same as humans.  So far it seems to be that they are just out-populated, and think they are going to lose.  A few overcame the risk rolls all the way up until it did the fortification calculation, and decided they couldn't field a large enough army.

There's one part of that calculation that's inconsistent in world gen (it predates the use of non-historical populations, so they weren't being figure in), but I'm not sure that'll change anything.  The post world gen function is even mushier, but there's a speed issue there.

But I'm not sure it's even incorrect, the decision they are making, if the populations really are that way.  Dwarves can outpopulate other people, but they only seem to get in wars with people that outmatch them (probably because they don't start wars, and others start wars they feel they can win?)  But their war logic might be correct?  It seems like I'm still missing something.

Is equipment taken into consideration in any way in the NPC vs. NPC battles?  Is that possible?

I ask because I see a lot of dwarven sites being overrun by elves, who are presumably equipped with wooden weapons.  It seems like superior equipment should be a force equalizer for the dwarves, even if outnumbered, and they should have an awareness of this and be more willing to go out and burn down some forest retreats...and goblin pits too, I suppose...but mostly forest retreats.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #168 on: April 05, 2018, 08:49:23 am »

The relevant personality facets are the same as humans.  So far it seems to be that they are just out-populated, and think they are going to lose.  A few overcame the risk rolls all the way up until it did the fortification calculation, and decided they couldn't field a large enough army.

There's one part of that calculation that's inconsistent in world gen (it predates the use of non-historical populations, so they weren't being figure in), but I'm not sure that'll change anything.  The post world gen function is even mushier, but there's a speed issue there.

But I'm not sure it's even incorrect, the decision they are making, if the populations really are that way.  Dwarves can outpopulate other people, but they only seem to get in wars with people that outmatch them (probably because they don't start wars, and others start wars they feel they can win?)  But their war logic might be correct?  It seems like I'm still missing something.

Is equipment taken into consideration in any way in the NPC vs. NPC battles?  Is that possible?
Yes. But it's a very recent addition so you might not have noticed it yet.

Elves are equipped with giant elephants. Makes a difference.
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CptAWatts22

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #169 on: April 05, 2018, 01:10:22 pm »



Quote from: Magistrum
Will rebel groups be able to form their own distinct civilization?
Instead of just having war with your own civ, or moving back to your original civilization.

Generally having new cultures able to form is a goal in changing the frameworks, after the magic stuff.  History is bizarrely static right now, and the current frameworks are not easy to work with in those terms.


So I'm guessing that adventures won't be able to take over towns and have just one group in charge of all the towns, instead of one for each town until after magic?
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #170 on: April 05, 2018, 04:25:38 pm »



Quote from: Magistrum
Will rebel groups be able to form their own distinct civilization?
Instead of just having war with your own civ, or moving back to your original civilization.

Generally having new cultures able to form is a goal in changing the frameworks, after the magic stuff.  History is bizarrely static right now, and the current frameworks are not easy to work with in those terms.


So I'm guessing that adventures won't be able to take over towns and have just one group in charge of all the towns, instead of one for each town until after magic?
--Reads dev notes...
Since fortresses can own multiple sites as a barony, and adventurers can become barons, I'd say it seems a reasonable thing to achieve pre-magic. Not independently, of course, but you wouldn't need to.

Obviously depends on how much of it gets done, but I don't think anybody knows how much that will be (not even Toady probably).
« Last Edit: April 05, 2018, 04:27:10 pm by Shonai_Dweller »
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DwarfMines

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #171 on: April 05, 2018, 06:21:28 pm »

Yes. But it's a very recent addition so you might not have noticed it yet.

Elves are equipped with giant elephants. Makes a difference.

Thank you.  I did not know that.

I hope something is able to be done to address this. 

While from a lore perspective it could be rationalized that dwarves never start wars or attack anybody because they are not interested in living anywhere but their mountains, that is not very satisfying because you would think that it would occur to them to go destroy the forest refuges and dark pits and solve their problems that way.

It is sad having passive, pacifistic dwarves.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #172 on: April 05, 2018, 09:15:37 pm »

Yes. But it's a very recent addition so you might not have noticed it yet.

Elves are equipped with giant elephants. Makes a difference.

Thank you.  I did not know that.

I hope something is able to be done to address this. 

While from a lore perspective it could be rationalized that dwarves never start wars or attack anybody because they are not interested in living anywhere but their mountains, that is not very satisfying because you would think that it would occur to them to go destroy the forest refuges and dark pits and solve their problems that way.

It is sad having passive, pacifistic dwarves.
In a world I've been looking at, some of the army battles where dwarves are the "defender" seem to take place right outside the goblin gates. Self-defence by way of preemptive strike? Or else the goblins spent so much time faffing about on the march, dwarves went over to get it over with. :)

They don't seem to invade yet though, unless a player has provoked them. Then they're happy to attack even if the player has long since retired.
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #173 on: April 06, 2018, 05:00:58 am »

In a world I've been looking at, some of the army battles where dwarves are the "defender" seem to take place right outside the goblin gates. Self-defence by way of preemptive strike? Or else the goblins spent so much time faffing about on the march, dwarves went over to get it over with. :)

They don't seem to invade yet though, unless a player has provoked them. Then they're happy to attack even if the player has long since retired.

Postgen tactical battles and worldgeneration are wildly different in that regard, because the new battle system doesn't carry into the old one for wars nor is it really respected for other events (like where's the implicit nonhistfig's during a FB attack? Or does equipment matter when a adventurer rolls up to a cave to challenge a dragon), there's still some major catch-up to be doing regarding the systems. #0010664

Generally i tend to generate to 5 years so i don't receive unreliable results and the wars are fairer, giant elephants & cheaty immortal elf/goblin tactics built up over years and experience don't actually mean anything if its calculated wrong by the original world-generation with variable results when put back into play.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2018, 05:02:32 am by FantasticDorf »
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vvAve

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #174 on: April 07, 2018, 03:56:42 pm »

With the magic update, will world creation myth be incorporated in religions? Is it possible for different civilizations to share religion/pantheon?
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #175 on: April 07, 2018, 04:34:39 pm »

With the magic update, will world creation myth be incorporated in religions? Is it possible for different civilizations to share religion/pantheon?
First part is the point, yes.
Second part can wait for an answer from Toady. Although, so far in the creation myths in the demos, they feature creation of specific races, like "the dwarves" so it seems like he's stl leaning towards different civs of the same race at least having a shared creation myth. Would be interesting to see how they breaks down. Some differentiation between civs of the same race would be nice.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #176 on: April 08, 2018, 02:59:21 am »

With the magic update, will world creation myth be incorporated in religions? Is it possible for different civilizations to share religion/pantheon?
Second part: I just checked current Legends info on two random dwarven civs, and they seem to worship different sets of gods (but I didn't delve deep enough into it to see if there may be overlaps). It would make sense to have a common basic creation myth, but have different civs worship different subsets of the source pantheon, and have the pantheon morphed into variants (such as e.g. the fairly pathetic Greek Ares turning into the mighty Roman Mars, or aspects of a source deity being split into two/two source deities merged into one. I believe this has happened in human history). I will be interesting to hear what Toady intends to do, though.
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Random_Dragon

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #177 on: April 08, 2018, 11:39:32 am »

(such as e.g. the fairly pathetic Greek Ares turning into the mighty Roman Mars, or aspects of a source deity being split into two/two source deities merged into one. I believe this has happened in human history)

My mental image on reading this was a version of the "virgin and Chad" meme, with Ares and Mars.

Someone should make that.
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Atomic Chicken

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #178 on: April 08, 2018, 01:05:00 pm »

With the upcoming addition of medical care for adventurers, do you envision yourself making any changes to the wound system so as to increase the relevance of medical care as a game mechanic? At present, it is entirely possible for most creatures to survive having an entire limb severed off despite taking no measures to restrict blood loss, which is somewhat immersion-breaking to say the least. On a similar note, will the 'instant healing' effect of fast travelling and sleep be removed or modified in any way?

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Sizik

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #179 on: April 09, 2018, 09:15:51 am »

Quote from: Toady
allowed recentering on the item in "item inaccessible" announcements

Best update ever.
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