Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 132 133 [134] 135 136 ... 264

Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 1296652 times)

EternalCaveDragon

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1995 on: May 05, 2019, 12:59:42 pm »

I'm pretty sure you can still manually install mods in the Steam\SteamApps\common\ directory.

Yes, yes you can. Speaking from experience with Rimworld mods from non-Workshop sources. The only difference I can think of would be that a number of mods from DFFD wouldn't use the tileset of the Steam version. At least at first.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2019, 01:02:28 pm by EternalCaveDragon »
Logged

Death Dragon

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1996 on: May 05, 2019, 10:56:03 pm »

There was another interview with Toady here:
https://kakebytes.com/2019/05/02/ep-25-dwarf-fortress-toady-one-returns/

Post a comment. Steam has comments.
You mean on their profile? I guess that works when they don't have comments turned off or their profile set to private.

An ingame mod browser from which you could download and install mods on any version of the game would be ideal, but that's more resources being spent on something that steam kinda already does, so probably not going to happen.
Logged

Shonai_Dweller

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1997 on: May 05, 2019, 11:24:34 pm »

There was another interview with Toady here:
https://kakebytes.com/2019/05/02/ep-25-dwarf-fortress-toady-one-returns/

Post a comment. Steam has comments.
You mean on their profile? I guess that works when they don't have comments turned off or their profile set to private.
Wait, Workshop doesn't have a comments function? Huh, must have imagined it.
Well, that's even better then, no chance of the "gated garden wall of hell" segregated community forming where you can't actually talk about what's being posted.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2019, 11:28:23 pm by Shonai_Dweller »
Logged

KittyTac

  • Bay Watcher
  • Impending Catsplosion. [PREFSTRING:aloofness]
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1998 on: May 05, 2019, 11:30:33 pm »

Workshop does have comments, last time I checked.
Logged
Don't trust this toaster that much, it could be a villain in disguise.
Mostly phone-posting, sorry for any typos or autocorrect hijinks.

EternalCaveDragon

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1999 on: May 05, 2019, 11:52:08 pm »

Unless I was imagining the comments sections I just looked at I can confirm this too.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2019, 11:54:16 pm by EternalCaveDragon »
Logged

Death Dragon

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2000 on: May 06, 2019, 12:22:57 am »

I said it in my post further up, workshop items do have comments, BUT you can't post comments on workshop items if you don't own the game they are for on steam. Even if you "sorta" own a game through the steam family share feature, you still can't post comments on workshop items.
A while ago I wanted to tell someone that their Stellaris mod wasn't working, but I couldn't tell him because I was family sharing the game and not allowed ot post comments. Thanks Valve.

Another interview:
http://www.indiehangover.com/interview-tarn-adams-of-bay-12-games/

I remember hearing about an audio interview that was done with toady during last GDC (not by PCGamer), does anyone know which one that could be?
« Last Edit: May 06, 2019, 12:25:19 am by Death Dragon »
Logged

Shonai_Dweller

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2001 on: May 06, 2019, 12:36:39 am »

I said it in my post further up, workshop items do have comments, BUT you can't post comments on workshop items if you don't own the game they are for on steam. Even if you "sorta" own a game through the steam family share feature, you still can't post comments on workshop items.
Why do you think none of the community would own Dwarf Fortress on Steam? I imagine at least half of us are going to buy it.

I wasn't talking about one person begging for a mod to be posted at DFFD, I was talking about a group effort (not too much) to let people know that posting a copy of a mod where everyone can enjoy it, is much appreciated and healthy for the community as a whole.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2019, 12:41:47 am by Shonai_Dweller »
Logged

Death Dragon

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2002 on: May 06, 2019, 12:55:55 am »

Why do you think none of the community would own Dwarf Fortress on Steam? I imagine at least half of us are going to buy it.

I wasn't talking about one person begging for a mod to be posted at DFFD, I was talking about a group effort (not too much) to let people know that posting a copy of a mod where everyone can enjoy it, is much appreciated and healthy for the community as a whole.
I was talking about individual people from the beginning:
"And yeah, the other problem is that non-steam users will have to use some weird, inofficial steam workshop downloading site to get the mods."
I was just listing some negative aspects of the steam workshop and one of them is that people who buy the game on Itch will either have to use a steam workshop downloading site to get mods or beg for them. It's a pretty big downside to buying games outside steam, if you ask me.
Logged

Shonai_Dweller

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2003 on: May 06, 2019, 01:04:15 am »

Why do you think none of the community would own Dwarf Fortress on Steam? I imagine at least half of us are going to buy it.

I wasn't talking about one person begging for a mod to be posted at DFFD, I was talking about a group effort (not too much) to let people know that posting a copy of a mod where everyone can enjoy it, is much appreciated and healthy for the community as a whole.
I was talking about individual people from the beginning:
"And yeah, the other problem is that non-steam users will have to use some weird, inofficial steam workshop downloading site to get the mods."
I was just listing some negative aspects of the steam workshop and one of them is that people who buy the game on Itch will either have to use a steam workshop downloading site to get mods or beg for them. It's a pretty big downside to buying games outside steam, if you ask me.
And if people share their mods, and it's established that sharing mods is a good thing, it's no problem. Unless for some reason there's a mod that someone is deliberately not wanting to share. Which generally isn't a mod worth getting.

I am worried that itch.io users are going to miss out on mods which adapt the tileset they bought, because they're all locked in Steam (I know Meph is already planning one for Masterwork). That's an issue Kitfox will need to solve at some point. Perhaps just a tag which checks if the premium tileset exists in the users folder would work.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2019, 01:11:42 am by Shonai_Dweller »
Logged

Putnam

  • Bay Watcher
  • DAT WIZARD
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2004 on: May 06, 2019, 05:54:38 am »

Mods are pretty plug-and-play as it is, yeah? Worlds even save their own copies of the raws so you can relentlessly change stuff and make new worlds with it without obliterating old saves in the process.

if two mods add reactions to dwarves then they are fundamentally incompatible with each other without manually finding the changes they make and merging them

FantasticDorf

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2005 on: May 06, 2019, 08:21:51 am »

Mods are pretty plug-and-play as it is, yeah? Worlds even save their own copies of the raws so you can relentlessly change stuff and make new worlds with it without obliterating old saves in the process.

if two mods add reactions to dwarves then they are fundamentally incompatible with each other without manually finding the changes they make and merging them

This exactly is why a steam port might need to have a compiler to remotely check the fluidity and block faulty attempts or easy access to the raws to fix such a thing which should refer the player back to the forums, wiki or steam guide pages to seek advice.

I guess actual gameplay guides such as 'building your first windmill farm', getting to grips with minecarts etc might serve to be more popular.
Logged

Shonai_Dweller

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2006 on: May 06, 2019, 08:35:05 am »

Mods are pretty plug-and-play as it is, yeah? Worlds even save their own copies of the raws so you can relentlessly change stuff and make new worlds with it without obliterating old saves in the process.

if two mods add reactions to dwarves then they are fundamentally incompatible with each other without manually finding the changes they make and merging them

This exactly is why a steam port might need to have a compiler to remotely check the fluidity and block faulty attempts or easy access to the raws to fix such a thing which should refer the player back to the forums, wiki or steam guide pages to seek advice.
Is that what other games on Steam do?
CKII Workshop mods just seen to contain descriptions on what compatibility issues a mod may cause. It's more work for the modder to add that info, sure but seems to work.

Easy access to the raws is a given, it's still Dwarf Fortress. Steam users aren't getting a cut-down version. And, yes, links to the forums and wiki from Steam page for modding (and any other) advice would be a good step.
Logged

voliol

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2007 on: May 06, 2019, 10:53:21 am »

@Shonai_Dweller The game has access to the raws, but not necessarily to within the raws; moving files around and reading them is one thing, opening them up and dynamically editing them is another.

This discussion is getting quite lengthy, and has few questions to Toady in it. Should it maybe be moved to its own thread?

Bumber

  • Bay Watcher
  • REMOVE KOBOLD
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2008 on: May 06, 2019, 01:43:28 pm »

I am worried that itch.io users are going to miss out on mods which adapt the tileset they bought, because they're all locked in Steam (I know Meph is already planning one for Masterwork). That's an issue Kitfox will need to solve at some point. Perhaps just a tag which checks if the premium tileset exists in the users folder would work.
Just forbid the distribution of unmodified premium assets. The way tilesets are implemented is probably going to change with all the new functionality, so each tile might end up in a separate file. Using the mod would end up with a tile that doesn't match all your other tiles.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2019, 01:47:33 pm by Bumber »
Logged
Reading his name would trigger it. Thinking of him would trigger it. No other circumstances would trigger it- it was strictly related to the concept of Bill Clinton entering the conscious mind.

THE xTROLL FUR SOCKx RUSE WAS A........... DISTACTION        the carp HAVE the wagon

A wizard has turned you into a wagon. This was inevitable (Y/y)?

FantasticDorf

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2009 on: May 06, 2019, 02:38:27 pm »

I am worried that itch.io users are going to miss out on mods which adapt the tileset they bought, because they're all locked in Steam (I know Meph is already planning one for Masterwork). That's an issue Kitfox will need to solve at some point. Perhaps just a tag which checks if the premium tileset exists in the users folder would work.
Just forbid the distribution of unmodified premium assets. The way tilesets are implemented is probably going to change with all the new functionality, so each tile might end up in a separate file. Using the mod would end up with a tile that doesn't match all your other tiles.

Quality control over mods via use of forums moderators could greenlight to get around this non-premium content distinction, i don't mean to be rude but it'd be a bit cheeky if Meph added Masterwork on as DLC (though for nessecity of being paid to do the spriting and possibly added sheen by Toady, i don't know know, then it'd really just be a art-pack)

The most popular content from the forums is likely to be the first thing people download for their steam edition anyway besides what they can organise themselves.

This discussion is getting quite lengthy, and has few questions to Toady in it. Should it maybe be moved to its own thread?

Yes i think it probably should

Its odd and im sure someone can pick up a similar question asked previously, would you ever support DLC for the steam version collaboratively as a 'add on' or 'technical polishing' of a mod?


To provide a example, a popular mod like Masterwork utilises elements of the game through DFhack to incur the desired effect by reusing game assets or mechanics exploitatively on script command (teleportation etc), if you were to code over these, it would constitute besides what assets the mod creator can bring themselves like sprites to creating a premium package.

« Last Edit: May 06, 2019, 03:09:50 pm by FantasticDorf »
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 132 133 [134] 135 136 ... 264