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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 519403 times)

FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2130 on: June 01, 2019, 04:57:00 pm »

Quote from: ToadyOne
They have goblins so that they can behave normally, but they have a pack of 5-20 non-civ-leader underworld demons to make them scarier, and they also have a standard demon leader.  All of these creatures are created on the spot, as the underworld is assumed to have unnumbered amounts of such beings currently, though the goblin is faked and indeed it just checks for the EVIL tag on them, the good old EVIL tag.  I didn't bother simulating their underworld pops on account of time and the upcoming magic release clarification of these matters.

Interesting, so in theory any sentient creature with the [EVIL] tag could be a subsitute by modding or mundane chance like a foul blendec for instance, if im understanding it correctly. And yeah i remember the magic arc previous FotF discussions, things about eliminating all the demons due to just how many it chooses to populate the world with, or demons never properly dying and just reincarnating/generating from a catalyst in that plane.
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Schmaven

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2131 on: June 01, 2019, 06:20:40 pm »

Do you have any plans to change how stockpiles work between now and the Myth & Magic release?  Such as giving clothing stockpiles the ability to only accept worn out clothing?
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2132 on: June 01, 2019, 06:42:45 pm »

Do you have any plans to change how stockpiles work between now and the Myth & Magic release?  Such as giving clothing stockpiles the ability to only accept worn out clothing?

I don't quite follow how the question is connected to itself, but i dont think Toady made any specific plans in the near term for that, it'd be more worthwhile to make a suggestion thread detailing why you'd think it'd be good with some practical examples if you can provide them.

Toady can change stockpiles or mundane mechanical things like that at any time, not that he needs to wait for a arc to do it when there's other bigger fish to fry like the terrain re-write all the magic systems etc, the big arc stuff is usually annotated with some directed goals on the devlog or threetoes stories.
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Schmaven

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2133 on: June 01, 2019, 08:18:35 pm »

I'm just curious if he had it on his mind at all to make changes to how stockpiles work, that's all.  I'm not suggesting specific changes really, merely providing an example of a possible change I've seen already in other threads.  I know this thread is supposed to be just current development stuff, but I haven't found where stockpiles fit in anywhere yet.  Some parts of stockpile changes might fit in with the army / military stuff, so I suppose that might be when we see changes to them.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2019, 08:20:59 pm by Schmaven »
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2134 on: June 01, 2019, 08:28:32 pm »

Do you have any plans to change how stockpiles work between now and the Myth & Magic release?  Such as giving clothing stockpiles the ability to only accept worn out clothing?

I don't quite follow how the question is connected to itself, but i dont think Toady made any specific plans in the near term for that, it'd be more worthwhile to make a suggestion thread detailing why you'd think it'd be good with some practical examples if you can provide them.

Toady can change stockpiles or mundane mechanical things like that at any time, not that he needs to wait for a arc to do it when there's other bigger fish to fry like the terrain re-write all the magic systems etc, the big arc stuff is usually annotated with some directed goals on the devlog or threetoes stories.
Removing workshops and replacing them with something more zone-based, which might in-turn entail some stockpile changes is, according to Toady, a save-breaking update that would need a big update like Mythgen to work on. So the question is valid. Are all stockpile updates off until workshops are replaced, or might the UI development arc include some stockpile changes?
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2135 on: June 01, 2019, 09:05:32 pm »

With the new strategic combat system for adventurer parties, will the party bard (assuming an rpg player chooses a performance focused skillset in lieu of combat skill) have anything to do in combat besides watch and remember the tale for later? Or is it solely fighters up front, covering fire from the ranger and thief hides in the shadows for this release?

I know "magic tunes" is something for Mythgen to handle, but srirring battle music exists already, for example.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2019, 09:08:24 pm by Shonai_Dweller »
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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2136 on: June 02, 2019, 01:20:01 pm »

Something to add onto the previous message: Would you, as an adventurer, be able to play a sort of "marching tune"/etc. used during fights that you're a bystander to, similar to real-life military "marching tunes" played by drummers in military forces? This may not happen in some places at present, but it did once.
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Schmaven

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2137 on: June 02, 2019, 03:59:39 pm »

Something to add onto the previous message: Would you, as an adventurer, be able to play a sort of "marching tune"/etc. used during fights that you're a bystander to, similar to real-life military "marching tunes" played by drummers in military forces? This may not happen in some places at present, but it did once.

This reminds me of the Warcraft III Tauren unit with the battle drum skill that boosted the combat stats of nearby units.  Sounds fun to do in adventure mode.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2138 on: June 02, 2019, 04:21:14 pm »

@IncompetentFortressMaker: The thread convention is that questions to Toady are marked by (lime) green to make it easier for him to round them up when it comes time to answer the latest month's harvest. You can edit your post to do that, if desired.

I thought marching beats/music was/is used for marching, i.e. travel, while it would be rather useless in battle because of all the noise, so you'd miss most of it. Using instruments for signaling is a different issue.
Most of the time in history people fled from the vicinity of the battle field, rather than bring picnic baskets and musicians to watch the mess.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2019, 04:22:59 pm by PatrikLundell »
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squamous

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2139 on: June 02, 2019, 06:06:39 pm »

You mentioned something interesting about how demons can take over dwarven civilizations that dig too deep. I am wondering, what happens if you generate a world without any procedurally generated demons, but create custom creatures which will inhabit that layer instead? Say, I made my own demonic race that inhabited layer 5 of the underground, would they spawn in the place of demons (and alongside goblins assuming they are present) or are procedurally generated demons an absolute requirement for hellish takeovers of civilizations?

Also, I noticed necromancers might be able to alter the biome around them to an evil one. If that works, will it be modifiable via raws or hardcoded? Could you make megabeasts do it too, for example? Or have custom creatures spawned for different necromancer/creature types?
« Last Edit: June 29, 2019, 01:32:57 am by squamous »
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2140 on: June 02, 2019, 08:44:44 pm »

@IncompetentFortressMaker: The thread convention is that questions to Toady are marked by (lime) green to make it easier for him to round them up when it comes time to answer the latest month's harvest. You can edit your post to do that, if desired.

I thought marching beats/music was/is used for marching, i.e. travel, while it would be rather useless in battle because of all the noise, so you'd miss most of it. Using instruments for signaling is a different issue.
Most of the time in history people fled from the vicinity of the battle field, rather than bring picnic baskets and musicians to watch the mess.
Fortunately for those of us who enjoy fun, Dwarf Fortress is a fantasy world simulatoras opposed to a history book. Made to reproduce those fun moments from a world of fantasy fiction.

Which from time to time involves artists beating drums scaring the enemy, invoking the gods giving focus to the religious, and generally being inspirational. Realistic? Perhaps not. But why would you let realism hamper your fantasy worlds?
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DG

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2141 on: June 02, 2019, 10:56:31 pm »

Because verisimilitude is important to some. Luckily DF is moddable so I don't bother objecting to suggestions I don't want, like someone "helping" in a fight by playing a (non-magical) lute, because I'd probably be able to delete it from the raws.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2142 on: June 03, 2019, 03:33:42 am »

I commented on IncompetentFortressMaker's post, which, to me, seemed to try to refer to historical use of battle music.

I believe I've heard of Scottish units during WWII scaring their enemies with the hellish noise of bag pipes as they marched towards them, but not during the fighting itself. I think war drums have similarly been used in preparation for battle, so there may well be historical cases of using music (and dance) as a morale boost just prior to the engagement.

Now, if you want cave dragon pulled battle organs (or something else that might actually cut through the din, with or without magic support for both reach and effect) inspiring the troops to great deeds, that's indeed a fantasy issue without any(?) ties to history. While I wouldn't like the non magical version, I'd probably be too lazy to mod it out.
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Enemy post

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2143 on: June 03, 2019, 02:42:49 pm »

Thanks for the answers.
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2144 on: June 04, 2019, 07:05:56 am »

I just hit a bit of a question worthy subject when thinking about the undead.

Toady, If a member of your fortress is ressurected as a intelligent undead by a fortress dwarf practitioner of necromancy in a relatively intact state (lets say drowning or freezing in ice) will they retain their civ links to just re-join your fortress population or become a abstract neutral unit/visitor like mindless zombies are?

I mean it wouldn't be outside of the possibility that a necromancer fortress could be self sustaining through raising intelligent undead-dwarves (and some other intelligent creatures if they will actively join/forced to join the fortress) to live life like they would have been alive, similar to the all vampire fortresses people have built in order to make use of immortality buffs it brings with no mortals to die in the crossfire when everyone is turned.

One other sort of related question: Can group leadership and mayoral etc votes in fortress be attributed to forced magical or conspiratorial links (intelligent undead unanimous'ly and loyally supporting the nomination of their master) to gain a majority?

I would think so, but some greater clarity on the point before Citizen Dwarf Kane uses a degree of fortress intimidation rolls and networking on a low level plot to become mayor of blockgravel would be handy, pretty much like how real life politics works and not dissimilar to the most popular dwarf winning already. (I realise i might have answer my own question but i would look forward to a response regardless)
« Last Edit: June 04, 2019, 07:15:43 am by FantasticDorf »
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