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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 520907 times)

Broms

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2490 on: October 22, 2019, 07:45:38 pm »

A question about these "accounts" historical figures and mercenary groups and the like have now. Are there any plans to incorporate those into fortress mode? If so, would there be an option to "pay coin" to a mercenary company to assassinate or capture someone?
« Last Edit: October 22, 2019, 07:47:10 pm by Broms »
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PlumpHelmetMan

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2491 on: October 22, 2019, 07:47:09 pm »

Another question about alliances, as I realised the second part of my question on them back in May wasn't clarified (answer focused on who people would form alliances against).

Which civs will form alliances with each other? And, for modding reference, how is this determined? Does it take into account Babysnatcher/Item_Thief tags, current states of war, ethics?
I play with a mod which uses these tags to divide up the many different civs in my world so would be nice to know who's likely to be teaming up when the zombie apocalypse strikes.


Pretty sure the original devlog from way back in the day mentioned "required killing of neutrals" as an alliance deal-breaker, at least as I remember it.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2492 on: October 22, 2019, 09:45:53 pm »

Another question about alliances, as I realised the second part of my question on them back in May wasn't clarified (answer focused on who people would form alliances against).

Which civs will form alliances with each other? And, for modding reference, how is this determined? Does it take into account Babysnatcher/Item_Thief tags, current states of war, ethics?
I play with a mod which uses these tags to divide up the many different civs in my world so would be nice to know who's likely to be teaming up when the zombie apocalypse strikes.


Pretty sure the original devlog from way back in the day mentioned "required killing of neutrals" as an alliance deal-breaker, at least as I remember it.
The Devlog was talking about who people form alliances against (ie necromancers and goblins) and the fotf question in May seemed to be just confirming the same thing.

That whole post with it's various replies and final Toady answer is kind of confusing and based on work which hadn't been completed at that point. So thought I'd clarify.

Devblog:
Quote
"When civilizations are feeling set upon by the more evil threats (any group that requires the killing of neutrals, like gobs and the undead), they can join up now..."
« Last Edit: October 22, 2019, 09:54:48 pm by Shonai_Dweller »
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voliol

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2493 on: October 23, 2019, 09:54:07 am »

From the June FotF reply:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Still, as Shonai_Dweller said, it might be useful to get a current status report.

Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2494 on: October 23, 2019, 04:23:51 pm »

Yes, that is the fotf question I'm talking about. And, again, the question is who can form an alliance. Not who do people form alliances against. That's not answered here. Irrelevant in vanilla perhaps, but when working with mods it's good to know how these things are determined.
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EternalCaveDragon

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2495 on: October 23, 2019, 09:46:28 pm »

Yes, that is the fotf question I'm talking about. And, again, the question is who can form an alliance. Not who do people form alliances against. That's not answered here. Irrelevant in vanilla perhaps, but when working with mods it's good to know how these things are determined.

I'd like to know the answer to this as well, especially considering who alliances are formed against is covered by ethics. An alliance between dwarves, elves, and humans (depending on the ethics of the latter) would definitely fall apart after the war is over due to ethical friction between the two/three. How long an alliance might last due to the differing viewpoints involved could also perhaps be a consideration when forming one. Although, given the description of how the alliances work, them being temporary may be the point, given they're an, "okay, we'll stop squabbling to deal with this existential threat, but after that we'll go back to killing/glaring at each other," type of alliance.
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tpssurvivor

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2496 on: October 24, 2019, 12:32:15 pm »

Question about relationships.
As for now, if I'm not mistaken the dwarves only seem to build relationship with others when they are at a meeting hall or tavern, under the "Socialize" job. With the upcoming villain update and the rewrite of social interactions, will dwarves (or whatever race you are playing fort mode) be able to "chit chat" or interact with others while doing other stuff? (e.g. Hauling objects; building stuff; comming across others while going somewhere; While they raid sites; Train in the squads).
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2497 on: October 24, 2019, 04:33:38 pm »

Question about relationships.
As for now, if I'm not mistaken the dwarves only seem to build relationship with others when they are at a meeting hall or tavern, under the "Socialize" job. With the upcoming villain update and the rewrite of social interactions, will dwarves (or whatever race you are playing fort mode) be able to "chit chat" or interact with others while doing other stuff? (e.g. Hauling objects; building stuff; comming across others while going somewhere; While they raid sites; Train in the squads).

They're supposed to exchange words outside of dedicated socializing, but my guess is that it isn't sufficiently sustained to count towards building relationships. While it was a few versions back, I've had dorfs get into fights with merchants at the trade depot, and as far as I could determine it was initiated by the exchange of words.

I doubt they'll chat while or raids, as they're offloaded from the fortress (causing mess and corruption when reloaded on return), but one might hope the Villain requirement to actually seek out specific contacts for nefarious purposes in fortresses might rub off on dorfs with needs to see friends and/or family (as well as to seek out potential partners to form families in the first place).

If fortress plotters would be as inept at seeking out contacts as fortress dorfs are currently, there will be no need to fear any plots will progress anywhere...
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Cruxador

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2498 on: October 25, 2019, 04:07:47 am »

Organized religions, craft guilds, and more formal clans/families are something that I've been wanting for a long time. At this point, aside from the huge things that will each require multiple years, and things that have already been added, it's the thing I want the most. Certainly more than the villain stuff; although it's cool in some respects, the groups being added to Fort mode provides a social structure that has been one of the biggest omissions with regards to simulating a realistic community. If they also can have or claim rooms jointly (offices and meeting halls, including places of worship for religions, and perhaps workshops or other means of production for guilds) then that will do a ton to make the forts more believably alive, and perhaps even encourage more organic layouts. What's more, it can add an aspect of managing different factions to the game, on top of just building infrastructure, and will make individuals more distinct and notable.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2019, 04:09:19 am by Cruxador »
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2499 on: October 25, 2019, 04:25:10 am »

Organized religions, craft guilds, and more formal clans/families are something that I've been wanting for a long time. At this point, aside from the huge things that will each require multiple years, and things that have already been added, it's the thing I want the most. Certainly more than the villain stuff; although it's cool in some respects, the groups being added to Fort mode provides a social structure that has been one of the biggest omissions with regards to simulating a realistic community. If they also can have or claim rooms jointly (offices and meeting halls, including places of worship for religions, and perhaps workshops or other means of production for guilds) then that will do a ton to make the forts more believably alive, and perhaps even encourage more organic layouts. What's more, it can add an aspect of managing different factions to the game, on top of just building infrastructure, and will make individuals more distinct and notable.
Remember there 's a whole development arc dedicated to these things coming up after the Mythgen releases, so while we may see something, don' t get your hopes up too much for anything more than bare-bones representation.
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Eric Blank

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2500 on: October 25, 2019, 01:07:24 pm »


Latest devlog (10/24/2019) again mentions the possibility of losing because officials are corrupted. Do you intend for that to be a hard "game over" type lose? For instance, I could still run the fort if those corrupted officials stick to only stealing away things occasionally but still follow my orders re; posting militia to keep goblins out. Say, they're only ignoring part of my orders, those that are counter to their own objectives. That would still be playable, theyd basically just be slightly more obstinate than usual.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2501 on: October 25, 2019, 03:40:53 pm »


Latest devlog (10/24/2019) again mentions the possibility of losing because officials are corrupted. Do you intend for that to be a hard "game over" type lose? For instance, I could still run the fort if those corrupted officials stick to only stealing away things occasionally but still follow my orders re; posting militia to keep goblins out. Say, they're only ignoring part of my orders, those that are counter to their own objectives. That would still be playable, theyd basically just be slightly more obstinate than usual.

As far as I understood from that dev log, Toady was considering means by which you could wrest control of the fortress back, such as e.g. through an uprising, so the issue is under consideration. I wouldn't expect any specific answers to what you'd be able to do until development reaches that issue, though.

Note that there are different kinds of "corruption". Criminal embezzlement may well become visible through things you'd ordered disappearing and whatnot, i.e. the "obstinate" version, but a goblin overlord or a vampire schemer would probably not stop at that level, but would continue until they've gotten full control of the fortress, as that's probably their goal (for the fortress: there's a whole world out there to deal with, one settlement at a time, although a vampire may well settle with a fortress full of food).
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PlumpHelmetMan

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2502 on: October 26, 2019, 06:57:17 pm »

I know the adventure mode party work for this release is more-or-less done, but here's something I never thought to ask that just occurred to me:

Are the pets in custom adventuring parties directly controllable? Or are they restricted to just following the P.C.s?
« Last Edit: October 26, 2019, 07:05:07 pm by PlumpHelmetMan »
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Death Dragon

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2503 on: October 28, 2019, 10:45:04 am »

Can you explain what you meant with:
"The first part was to add some new per-character variables to every conversation - how much a person wants to stay, whether they are pleased with things, and how confident/dominant/composed they are feeling"
Does that maybe mean there will be less "it was inevitable/ it is terrifying" and more actual emotion in people's reactions while talking?
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Weirdsound

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2504 on: October 29, 2019, 01:56:04 pm »

With artifact theft plots coming to Fortress Mode, will we get more options on how we store, protect, manage and/or display our artifacts? Right now it is easy to choose where in the fortress your artifact bed or mechanism lives, but a pain in the ass to get an artifact sock or toy axe exactly where you want it.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2019, 02:16:11 pm by Weirdsound »
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