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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 474685 times)

KittyTac

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #255 on: April 23, 2018, 06:34:19 am »

Is it at all disturbing to implement the system that will allow countless tiny bearded people to remember their traumatic experiences for the rest of their lives?

Remember that they can't actually feel, it is just a variable or two. The number of "variables" that control a human's feelings is on the order of a few thousands.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2018, 06:40:49 am by KittyTac »
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #256 on: April 23, 2018, 06:58:13 am »

Is it at all disturbing to implement the system that will allow countless tiny bearded people to remember their traumatic experiences for the rest of their lives?

Remember that they can't actually feel, it is just a variable or two. The number of "variables" that control a human's feelings is on the order of a few thousands.
However it does involve sitting around and having conversations along the lines of, "so, which should be weighted as more traumatic, enduring the decay of one's mother or witnessing the death of one's child at the hands of your mother-turned-night-creature?"
Which is plenty disturbing in itself. :)
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KittyTac

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #257 on: April 23, 2018, 06:59:35 am »

Well, that is pretty disturbing, actually, so let's not bring that argument about ethics into this thread for Toady to see. :P
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Egan_BW

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #258 on: April 23, 2018, 08:24:44 am »

Is it at all disturbing to implement the system that will allow countless tiny bearded people to remember their traumatic experiences for the rest of their lives?

Remember that they can't actually feel, it is just a variable or two. The number of "variables" that control a human's feelings is on the order of a few thousands.
That's not what I asked.
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PlumpHelmetMan

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #259 on: April 23, 2018, 09:44:29 am »

Meh...I think it's essential for storytelling whether it's traumatic or not. We'll never reach the goal of a full-fledged mythology generator if our characters remain automatons forever.

Anyway, I don't think Egan is arguing ethics (let's indeed not start that here). It could still be plenty disturbing to implement without being ethically ambiguous. :P
« Last Edit: April 23, 2018, 10:06:47 am by PlumpHelmetMan »
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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #260 on: April 23, 2018, 03:13:39 pm »

Post-Singularity AI 1: Do you think it's wrong to sim these meatfolk without them knowing it is a sim?

Post-Singularity AI 2: Why, because of the mass murders and whatnot?
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KittyTac

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #261 on: April 23, 2018, 08:56:36 pm »

Post-Singularity AI 1: Do you think it's wrong to sim these meatfolk without them knowing it is a sim?

Post-Singularity AI 2: Why, because of the mass murders and whatnot?

Exactly. We do not have to create an utopia for them, because it does not make an interesting game/sim.
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PlumpHelmetMan

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #262 on: April 23, 2018, 09:06:14 pm »

Didn't we agree not to start this discussion again? Let's just get back to asking FOTF questions...please.
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Eric Blank

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #263 on: April 24, 2018, 05:08:29 pm »

Exactly. We do not have to create an utopia for them, because it does not make an interesting game/sim.

But destroying their utopia and introducing fear and death to a world that had never known it before would make for a good story
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KittyTac

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #264 on: April 24, 2018, 09:22:04 pm »

Exactly. We do not have to create an utopia for them, because it does not make an interesting game/sim.

But destroying their utopia and introducing fear and death to a world that had never known it before would make for a good story

Yup! Once Myth comes along we will be able to make non-violent worlds, then, ahem, violence that world.

Will we be able to introduce violence to normally non-violent worlds?
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #265 on: April 24, 2018, 10:03:25 pm »

Exactly. We do not have to create an utopia for them, because it does not make an interesting game/sim.

But destroying their utopia and introducing fear and death to a world that had never known it before would make for a good story

Yup! Once Myth comes along we will be able to make non-violent worlds, then, ahem, violence that world.

Will we be able to introduce violence to normally non-violent worlds?
Highest on the 'no-violence' scale is 'no death'. So, best you could do probably is organize some wrestling tournaments.
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Bumber

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #266 on: April 24, 2018, 11:42:37 pm »

Exactly. We do not have to create an utopia for them, because it does not make an interesting game/sim.

But destroying their utopia and introducing fear and death to a world that had never known it before would make for a good story

Yup! Once Myth comes along we will be able to make non-violent worlds, then, ahem, violence that world.

Will we be able to introduce violence to normally non-violent worlds?
Highest on the 'no-violence' scale is 'no death'. So, best you could do probably is organize some wrestling tournaments.
Thumb wrestling, maybe.
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voliol

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #267 on: April 25, 2018, 02:59:57 am »

I've heard that one-way portals will come before two-way ones, but isn't a two-way portals just two one-way portals leading to and from opposite locations?
Will there be portals at all at this point that lead out of the fort, or are they just going to be for critters coming in?

iceball3

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #268 on: April 25, 2018, 04:22:44 am »

Hey Toady, how often are historical figures pulled from sitepops in worldgen, and in what conditions? For the most part, this question concerns full grown adults being pulled into existence without known lineage, in particular, or is there retroactive lineage generation?

Relating to the first question, what sort of balance do you wish to strike from the following two directions?:
-That frequently pulling adults into existence during worldgen is immersively destructive, due to the sheer amount of individuals who seem to exist with no historical relation to any individuals, and no family to direct the course of their actions in any way.
-That infrequently pulling individuals into existence during worldgen can cause issues in that tightly knit family trees have much more involvement in everything that occurs in the world than anyone else, and that their limited numbers can cause issues if a significant amount of them find vital roles not their calling. That it is also difficult to counter this due to the limitation of the drag on worldgen that excessive historical figures causes.

Dorsidwarf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #269 on: April 25, 2018, 05:27:34 am »

[color]I've heard that one-way portals will come before two-way ones, but isn't a two-way portals just two one-way portals leading to and from opposite locations?
Will there be portals at all at this point that lead out of the fort, or are they just going to be for critters coming in?[/color]
I assume that what Toady means by “One-way” is that they only let mobs enter the map, seeing as “having a discontinuous area in play at the same time as the fort” is the real technical hurdle.

So the elfomancers will be able to teleport legions of Greenpeace into your tree farm through a magic portal, but you have to walk over to Elf HQ to beat them up in revenge
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