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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 972479 times)

Schmaven

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2775 on: January 15, 2020, 06:23:37 am »


Since Steam isn't too keen on version numbers that start with a zero, do you think they'd accept just moving the first decimal point 2 digits to the right but otherwise keep the same version system?  So version 0.44.12 would become 44.12 etc.  I know eventually Dwarf Fortress will drift away from the list of features that helps determine this number, but it's really cool to have some rough percentage of included features so prominently visible like it has been.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2776 on: January 15, 2020, 07:04:35 am »


Since Steam isn't too keen on version numbers that start with a zero, do you think they'd accept just moving the first decimal point 2 digits to the right but otherwise keep the same version system?  So version 0.44.12 would become 44.12 etc.  I know eventually Dwarf Fortress will drift away from the list of features that helps determine this number, but it's really cool to have some rough percentage of included features so prominently visible like it has been.

+1.
Was just thinking this today. Seems a good solution to Steam's awkward rules.
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clinodev

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2777 on: January 15, 2020, 07:33:29 am »


Since Steam isn't too keen on version numbers that start with a zero, do you think they'd accept just moving the first decimal point 2 digits to the right but otherwise keep the same version system?  So version 0.44.12 would become 44.12 etc.  I know eventually Dwarf Fortress will drift away from the list of features that helps determine this number, but it's really cool to have some rough percentage of included features so prominently visible like it has been.

+1.
Was just thinking this today. Seems a good solution to Steam's awkward rules.

A solution like this also eliminates most of the issue of having different names and numbers for the paid and free versions, in relation to community efforts like the wiki.

On the subreddit we fairly regularly hear from new players who can only find the "clearly outdated" DF2014 version of the wiki as it is (and yes I'm aware the wiki folk have their logical reasons.) I can only imagine the confusion a version "1.03a" next to a "0.48.03", for instance, would cause. Perhaps dropping the preliminary "0." on both would be ideal, v48.03 for everyone!
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LordBaal

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2778 on: January 15, 2020, 04:11:58 pm »

Or Papa Gabe can dump a couple million dollars on Toady to hire a elite team of programers to push DF up to version 1.0 in a matter of weeks/months.

Of course this would bring about the end of the world but imagine the profits.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2779 on: January 15, 2020, 04:37:17 pm »


Since Steam isn't too keen on version numbers that start with a zero, do you think they'd accept just moving the first decimal point 2 digits to the right but otherwise keep the same version system?  So version 0.44.12 would become 44.12 etc.  I know eventually Dwarf Fortress will drift away from the list of features that helps determine this number, but it's really cool to have some rough percentage of included features so prominently visible like it has been.

+1.
Was just thinking this today. Seems a good solution to Steam's awkward rules.

A solution like this also eliminates most of the issue of having different names and numbers for the paid and free versions, in relation to community efforts like the wiki.

On the subreddit we fairly regularly hear from new players who can only find the "clearly outdated" DF2014 version of the wiki as it is (and yes I'm aware the wiki folk have their logical reasons.) I can only imagine the confusion a version "1.03a" next to a "0.48.03", for instance, would cause. Perhaps dropping the preliminary "0." on both would be ideal, v48.03 for everyone!
Since there'll still only be one bug tracker they would just update the numbering for both versions. Won't be the first time the numbering system has been updated.
As for "Df2014". Well, yeah, confusing as it is, that's for someone else to figure out.
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voliol

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2780 on: January 15, 2020, 04:57:24 pm »


Since Steam isn't too keen on version numbers that start with a zero, do you think they'd accept just moving the first decimal point 2 digits to the right but otherwise keep the same version system?  So version 0.44.12 would become 44.12 etc.  I know eventually Dwarf Fortress will drift away from the list of features that helps determine this number, but it's really cool to have some rough percentage of included features so prominently visible like it has been.

+1.
Was just thinking this today. Seems a good solution to Steam's awkward rules.

A solution like this also eliminates most of the issue of having different names and numbers for the paid and free versions, in relation to community efforts like the wiki.

On the subreddit we fairly regularly hear from new players who can only find the "clearly outdated" DF2014 version of the wiki as it is (and yes I'm aware the wiki folk have their logical reasons.) I can only imagine the confusion a version "1.03a" next to a "0.48.03", for instance, would cause. Perhaps dropping the preliminary "0." on both would be ideal, v48.03 for everyone!
Since there'll still only be one bug tracker they would just update the numbering for both versions. Won't be the first time the numbering system has been updated.
As for "Df2014". Well, yeah, confusing as it is, that's for someone else to figure out.
At least DF2014 superficially matches 0.4x.xx. I can’t see that happening next time, unless 0.5x.01 releases in 2025.

Bumber

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2781 on: January 16, 2020, 12:24:57 am »

Or Papa Gabe can dump a couple million dollars on Toady to hire a elite team of programers to push DF up to version 1.0 in a matter of weeks/months.

Of course this would bring about the end of the world but imagine the profits.

You're forgetting to convert to Valve Time. It could end up with a release date of Soon™.
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JesterHell696

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2782 on: January 16, 2020, 02:40:52 am »

Or Papa Gabe can dump a couple million dollars on Toady to hire a elite team of programers to push DF up to version 1.0 in a matter of weeks/months.

Of course this would bring about the end of the world but imagine the profits.

You're forgetting to convert to Valve Time. It could end up with a release date of Soon™.

It could be released alongside Half-Life 3.
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"The long-term goal is to create a fantasy world simulator in which it is possible to take part in a rich history, occupying a variety of roles through the course of several games." Bay 12 DF development page

"My stance is that Dwarf Fortress is first and foremost a simulation and that balance is a secondary objective that is always secondary to it being a simulation while at the same time cannot be ignored completely." -Neonivek

VineFynn

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2783 on: January 17, 2020, 07:06:07 pm »

"(Undead lieutenants) are under the control of the necromancer, but can retain much of their old identity."

What does this translate into gameplay-wise? Can a sufficiently good/strong identity break free from a sufficiently weak necromancer?
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2784 on: January 18, 2020, 07:33:57 am »

"(Undead lieutenants) are under the control of the necromancer, but can retain much of their old identity."

What does this translate into gameplay-wise? Can a sufficiently good/strong identity break free from a sufficiently weak necromancer?

No, they're bound to their master by the dark art of necromancy, the personaity is just a distinction flair as they're still 'in pocket' as you might say. Toady's forward delayed goals are to have the player find their true name, likely by scribbing up slabs quickly in order to put them to rest.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2785 on: January 18, 2020, 09:06:09 am »

"(Undead lieutenants) are under the control of the necromancer, but can retain much of their old identity."

What does this translate into gameplay-wise? Can a sufficiently good/strong identity break free from a sufficiently weak necromancer?

No, they're bound to their master by the dark art of necromancy, the personaity is just a distinction flair as they're still 'in pocket' as you might say. Toady's forward delayed goals are to have the player find their true name, likely by scribbing up slabs quickly in order to put them to rest.
Devblog features an example of one who was made prisoner, then went on to lead a life as a farmer. They can do that because they don't look dead and can use general skills unlike zombies. Probably retain some skills from when they were alive too.
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2786 on: January 18, 2020, 03:41:09 pm »

"(Undead lieutenants) are under the control of the necromancer, but can retain much of their old identity."

What does this translate into gameplay-wise? Can a sufficiently good/strong identity break free from a sufficiently weak necromancer?

No, they're bound to their master by the dark art of necromancy, the personaity is just a distinction flair as they're still 'in pocket' as you might say. Toady's forward delayed goals are to have the player find their true name, likely by scribbing up slabs quickly in order to put them to rest.
Devblog features an example of one who was made prisoner, then went on to lead a life as a farmer. They can do that because they don't look dead and can use general skills unlike zombies. Probably retain some skills from when they were alive too.

I was dispelling the "Can a sufficiently good/strong identity break free from a sufficiently weak necromancer?" bit mainly, yeah. Without a necromancer they'll go about maybe pretending to live and get swept up into settlement code for jobs it seems but they still hate all living things.

Necromancy's control over the dead is absolute, least until the Magic Arc when the different implementations of magic might mean that a sub-adequate caster, or faulty for whatever reason casting wand might raise the dead, but you'll have no control over their actions directed towards you and everyone else in part of a misfire.
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VineFynn

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2787 on: January 19, 2020, 01:25:57 am »

"(Undead lieutenants) are under the control of the necromancer, but can retain much of their old identity."

What does this translate into gameplay-wise? Can a sufficiently good/strong identity break free from a sufficiently weak necromancer?

No, they're bound to their master by the dark art of necromancy, the personaity is just a distinction flair as they're still 'in pocket' as you might say. Toady's forward delayed goals are to have the player find their true name, likely by scribbing up slabs quickly in order to put them to rest.
Devblog features an example of one who was made prisoner, then went on to lead a life as a farmer. They can do that because they don't look dead and can use general skills unlike zombies. Probably retain some skills from when they were alive too.

Thanks, sounds like exactly what I've come to expect from DF lol
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Criperum

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2788 on: January 20, 2020, 06:38:06 am »

Are friendship and grudges depend on personal traits or they are totally random? Like dwarves with opposing personal values are more possible to become rivals than those who have similar.
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2789 on: January 20, 2020, 09:25:55 am »

Are friendship and grudges depend on personal traits or they are totally random? Like dwarves with opposing personal values are more possible to become rivals than those who have similar.

In the past it was like this, dwarves who grudged each other took grim satisfaction when the other died and disliked speaking to them based to gaining negative score upticks in each of their relationships, humorless dwarves also found other comedians grating and annoying until they eventually became grudged, even if it wasn't reciprocated.

Its sort of telling that the fix to relationships would be more needed than ever, because its actually a big crutch of DF's gameplay for having the relationships in the fortress via turtling spiral out of control when too many dwarves are put in too much of enclosed space leading to Boatmurdered level disasters on occasion.
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