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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 748734 times)

rian ashes

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2985 on: February 19, 2020, 01:07:43 pm »

Hello, Toady!
I have a question about Steam release.
As you, maybe, know, russian comminuty managed to localise Dwarf Fortress into russian languge.
May be you can inpliment other localisations as official? DF is great, but some time it's too hard to understand it, if you don't know English.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2986 on: February 19, 2020, 04:26:57 pm »

Hello, Toady!
I have a question about Steam release.
As you, maybe, know, russian comminuty managed to localise Dwarf Fortress into russian languge.
May be you can inpliment other localisations as official? DF is great, but some time it's too hard to understand it, if you don't know English.
Lime green text for questions to Toady.

Does it handle procedurally generated text perfectly? Does any game? That's not easy. Menus and other set text are easy enough but procedural text forming routines would need to be written from scratch.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2987 on: February 20, 2020, 02:55:11 am »

Like Shonai_Dweller, I doubt any translation effort can be done properly (you certainly can get something that sort of works, like a very primitive Google Translate, if you can accept the glaring flaws). The problem is that real world languages are not sound substitutions like the DF languages are, but words end up in different order in different languages, are modulated in various ways (singular/plural/[dualis], gender modifications, definite/indefinite article, verb forms, implicit subject ...).
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IndigoFenix

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2988 on: February 20, 2020, 05:17:25 am »

It wouldn't be as easy as simple text string replacement, but since text generation is largely independent from the rest of the game's logic, rewriting it in a way that a dedicated community (or hired translators) can make it work should be possible. And given that it would greatly expand DF's audience, it might be worthwhile for the premium release. But that's a long way off.

TheFlame52

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2989 on: February 20, 2020, 05:18:00 pm »

Does beekeeping make more trees and plants grow in your fortress, because of pollination? If not, then why do the deserts around fortresses bloom vigorously?

How do the new alliances work in worldgen? Leader personalities? Ethics? Civ values? The old factions of snatcher civ vs. thief civ vs. civ with both vs. civ with neither? Evil races vs. non-evil races?

Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2990 on: February 20, 2020, 05:21:36 pm »

Does beekeeping make more trees and plants grow in your fortress, because of pollination? If not, then why do the deserts around fortresses bloom vigorously?

How do the new alliances work in worldgen? Leader personalities? Ethics? Civ values? The old factions of snatcher civ vs. thief civ vs. civ with both vs. civ with neither? Evil races vs. non-evil races?

Alliances:
Everybody Vs KILL_NEUTRAL:REQUIRED (gobbos, necros in vanilla). Fairly sure the reverse isn't true though (so no goblin civilizations joining forces).

Bees:
Pretty sure this happens regardless of beekeeping. As to why... ::)
« Last Edit: February 20, 2020, 05:25:14 pm by Shonai_Dweller »
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2991 on: February 21, 2020, 05:08:47 am »

Suggestiony: Have you considered increasing the minimum DF screen size (or possibly a "recommended" one, with a minimum one still functioning, but being awkward) for the Premium version in order to get more room for commands (and possibly info/labels) as part of the UI rework?
If the answer is yes, I guess it would give some people who are opposed to that a chance to speak up against it and explain why...

I've found the size to be very restrictive when making DFHack scripts with a UI (which isn't a good argument for increasing the size in itself), and assume that would apply to Toady and Threetoe as well (which obviously would be relevant).
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2992 on: February 21, 2020, 05:29:37 am »

Alliances:
Everybody Vs KILL_NEUTRAL:REQUIRED (gobbos, necros in vanilla). Fairly sure the reverse isn't true though (so no goblin civilizations joining forces).

Id lean towards its bugged that they can't ally with same-entity civs, all the elves, dwarves and humans at a time are allied through top leader positions rather than site-to-site, or maybe just clowns dont like working with each other so never extend a hand out to join forces when there is plainly a threat from necromancers or a big-ball of elves/dwarves/humans threatening to wipe them out.
  • Its sad, because it'd actually lead to much bigger siege forces sooner, though its also quite weird how alliances work at the minute because they pull dwarves into wars all over the place and sometimes elves attack human allies a lot/vice versa and neither party (or dwarves grudgingly picking sides) seems able to say that the alliance is really not worth their time anymore.
If you want goblins to have alliances,  you usually have to give them some friendly('ish) entities also with [ENTITY:KILL_NEUTRAL:REQUIRED], which in the realm of modding could be pretty much anything you want.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2020, 05:32:52 am by FantasticDorf »
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2993 on: February 21, 2020, 05:36:05 am »

Kill_neutral:required implies they kill members of other goblin civs, being neutral, so wouldn't make alliances. Nothing Toady ever said about alliances implied that goblin civs were meant to gang up with other goblin civs or necros against the threat of Elvish invasion. So, not bugged, just kind of a limited system right now.
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2994 on: February 21, 2020, 05:53:56 am »

Kill_neutral:required implies they kill members of other goblin civs, being neutral, so wouldn't make alliances. Nothing Toady ever said about alliances implied that goblin civs were meant to gang up with other goblin civs or necros against the threat of Elvish invasion. So, not bugged, just kind of a limited system right now.

In modded conditions with said addition of races also friendly to KILL_NEUTRAL:REQUIRED in seperate entities i've observed them to have alliances this way, but your point is still a perfectly valid explanation. Necros don't even have any openly defined code either to really comment on whether them allying/rivalling their apprentices, immortality promised upstarts/slab-readers would take anything further beyond personal leader relationships would constitute them allying with other forces, like mummies for instance.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2020, 05:58:16 am by FantasticDorf »
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iceball3

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2995 on: February 22, 2020, 08:05:01 am »


Considering the profession skill "geographer", will access to map data (except for legends) be transitioned from "basic UI function" to "item based, and dependent on available/memorized maps", or will geography only have abstract implications ingame (such as enabling site/civ level capabilities for entities in a "not involving and thusly not lowering player map UI access." sort of way?

For the various profession skills, IE chemist, mathematician, etc, are there considerations for targeting the whole bodies of knowledge in a larger update arc, or is the plan to give them functions going to be "as we go along" for the most part?

Will magic discovery, research, acquisition, et cetera utilize the topics and skills system, or will magic and it's knowledge be largely segregated from worldly knowledge and study as of the myth-magic arc plans, or will any considerations surrounding that come much later?

Apologies if I've asked one of these questions before in some measure, i do remember being interested in it all some few years ago.
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therahedwig

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2996 on: February 24, 2020, 06:32:54 am »

Nah, I've been wondering about these kinds of things too, but all that was said was that at some point in the future topics would actually affect the capabilities of a civ.

I mean, the dev page does mention maps for adventurers, and what is a boats arc without treasure maps, and I guess that much like with books there should be a proper industry for creating these maps, but there hasn't been anything said about it. Similarly, the various magic types mentioned do have types that interrelate with the mundane topics, like astronomy (planets), chemistry(potions), mathematics(ritual diagrams), etc, but there hasn't been much said about it either.
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Silverwing235

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2997 on: February 24, 2020, 07:12:37 am »

Nah, I've been wondering about these kinds of things too, but all that was said was that at some point in the future topics would actually affect the capabilities of a civ.

I mean, the dev page does mention maps for adventurers, and what is a boats arc without treasure maps, and I guess that much like with books there should be a proper industry for creating these maps, but there hasn't been anything said about it. Similarly, the various magic types mentioned do have types that interrelate with the mundane topics, like astronomy (planets), alchemy(potions), mathematics(ritual diagrams), etc, but there hasn't been much said about it either.

FTFY.
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2998 on: February 24, 2020, 07:21:19 am »

A Q for toady after following the discussion here on the 47.03 thread about fortification types

Given the kind of workloads you experience during your Arc workloads (and interim projects like getting army arc prepped before steam release) is it likely if you're looking at fortifications, you'll be putting some time aside to make sure other constructions are also coherent?

Special mention to glass aquariums which can't hold large roaming fish like caught whales & sharks that's been on the bug tracker for ages. Though water projects have been a erm... controversial; fishing for whales using cage traps & using pit zones to artificially air-drown and beach them is very profitable for dwarf fortresses who can engineer it and miscallenously very visually appealing and accomplishing to hold exotic sea creatures for dwarves to gawk at as trophies within aquariums, or deployed to moats & ponds in defence.
  • Just to put to the side, i have historically checked this issue through closed testing conditions before and aquariums are the only type of cage tame underswim and amphibious animals can be assigned to, to dispel the notion they are for vermin only (which works correctly).
« Last Edit: February 24, 2020, 06:31:13 pm by FantasticDorf »
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Strik3r

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2999 on: February 24, 2020, 04:03:33 pm »

With the Steam release on the way i've got some questions regarding the modding capabilities and also that one question i missed getting into the last FotF.

First that.
The new relationship stuff added in .47(divorces, affairs, etc.) are influenced by personality/civ values right? If so, what personality/civ values significantly affect that stuff happening or not happening? Also i assume that the ORIENTATION token is taken into account, so for example if an intelligent creature has it with values such as 0:0:1, the creature can never have an affair, since the creature would have no interest in a non-committed relationship?

Now for the steam stuff (i feel like this stuff probably has been answered before):
Since i presume you want to have Steam Workshop integration, does that mean we'll be getting something like mod-loading from folders? Since i can't imagine Workshop would work well with the current mod installation method of "Drop stuff into the raw/objects folder and hope it works".

In terms of the graphics stuff, can you give a rough outline of what new graphical features tileset authors can expect from the version coinciding with the Steam release?
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