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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 823876 times)

mightymushroom

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3105 on: March 20, 2020, 12:08:34 pm »

Responding to the recent Dev Diary:

YES!!
Square map tiles and rectangular text is just what I've always wanted! Thank you, thank you!

I wonder whether some of the more "modern" interface suggestions la Rimworld might work better or be more scalable with TrueType fonts and no tiles at all, but this is such a big step that I'm not even a little disappointed.
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FrankVill

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3106 on: March 21, 2020, 06:39:34 am »

(question removed) Sorry. :P
« Last Edit: March 21, 2020, 06:47:24 am by FrankVill »
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Salmeuk

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3107 on: March 21, 2020, 10:26:15 pm »

The new artwork looks promising and better than any graphical tileset I've come across. I imagine moving between z-levels would look a lot more interesting with that style of graphics, especially if something similar to the multi-level rendering available with TWBT was implemented.

Are there any plans for expanding the animation of tiles? Similar to water flowing downstream or waves crashing on the beach in the current versions.
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thvaz

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3108 on: March 22, 2020, 05:24:30 pm »

I am really worried the world is really ending now as it seems DF will have real graphics very soon!
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Immortal-D

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3109 on: March 24, 2020, 08:43:08 am »

Can you say if fixing Bins will make it in before Steam?  The bugs related to Bins have been around for a while now; Is the issue complicated, or just never got to it?
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3110 on: March 24, 2020, 09:09:28 am »

Can you say if fixing Bins will make it in before Steam?  The bugs related to Bins have been around for a while now; Is the issue complicated, or just never got to it?
There's a lot of reports on bins on the tracker from various versions so it's probably best to be clear what's current. What issues in particular?

In my fortresses, ammo issues are noticeable. I find it gets permanently stuck most of the time when I try out an ammo pile with bins for a change. That I'd always recommend to keep out of bins.

Other than that, regular day to day bin usage isn't causing any other noticeable issues for me (again I stress, in my fortresses, I'm sure I play differently to others).

I think it's worth clarifying, because even now you see people on forums complain that dwarves will haul an entire bin of goods to where they need the one thing in it and then haul it all back again, which I think is some kind of urban myth.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2020, 09:13:00 am by Shonai_Dweller »
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3111 on: March 24, 2020, 10:54:29 am »

:
I think it's worth clarifying, because even now you see people on forums complain that dwarves will haul an entire bin of goods to where they need the one thing in it and then haul it all back again, which I think is some kind of urban myth.
Not quite a myth, as it happened in DF history. Somewhere back in 0.40.X I had a block stockpile in the caverns taking from another block stockpile close to the mason. I then had a worker take a block out of a bin to build the protecting wall, and a hauler came along to pick up the bin to top it up, chased by one or two workers who wanted to get their blocks out of that bin (which results in a funny picture in my head). I believe it happened more than once. However, it was fixed, probably though the jobs rewrite.

Also, I suspect people using the manager suffer less from bin locking than those using repeating workshop orders, as the former case just results in a failure message, while the latter also kills the repeat order.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2020, 10:57:25 am by PatrikLundell »
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3112 on: March 24, 2020, 04:34:48 pm »

:
I think it's worth clarifying, because even now you see people on forums complain that dwarves will haul an entire bin of goods to where they need the one thing in it and then haul it all back again, which I think is some kind of urban myth.
Not quite a myth, as it happened in DF history. Somewhere back in 0.40.X I had a block stockpile in the caverns taking from another block stockpile close to the mason. I then had a worker take a block out of a bin to build the protecting wall, and a hauler came along to pick up the bin to top it up, chased by one or two workers who wanted to get their blocks out of that bin (which results in a funny picture in my head). I believe it happened more than once. However, it was fixed, probably though the jobs rewrite.

Also, I suspect people using the manager suffer less from bin locking than those using repeating workshop orders, as the former case just results in a failure message, while the latter also kills the repeat order.
Exactly, there's a lot of, I had a bug 10 years ago, it was fixed 8 years ago, Broken Game! Going on.
And, yeah, I play with the manager so perhaps don't notice some things. But I think I'd still notice if something was just not happening at all.

But, sorry, not one to discuss in-depth here, but perhaps might need to be looked into and discussed somewhere if it's unclear what's actually a 47.04 bug.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2020, 04:37:01 pm by Shonai_Dweller »
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feelotraveller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3113 on: March 25, 2020, 09:40:39 pm »

Can you say if fixing Bins will make it in before Steam?  The bugs related to Bins have been around for a while now; Is the issue complicated, or just never got to it?

In short: No, yes and yes.

To clarify: bin behaviour/mechanism has been revised multiple times and the current version is the best we have ever had; but there is something fundamentally broken about how containers are set up that has never been addressed and will not be before at least the map rewrite.

Personally I have zero issues with bins because after long and frustrating experience my forts don't use them at all.  Mind you I use quantum stockpiles liberally and put up with each piece of worn-out clothing being individually hauled to the depot for disposal.  Shrug.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3114 on: March 26, 2020, 03:01:49 am »

Can you say if fixing Bins will make it in before Steam?  The bugs related to Bins have been around for a while now; Is the issue complicated, or just never got to it?

In short: No, yes and yes.

To clarify: bin behaviour/mechanism has been revised multiple times and the current version is the best we have ever had; but there is something fundamentally broken about how containers are set up that has never been addressed and will not be before at least the map rewrite.

Personally I have zero issues with bins because after long and frustrating experience my forts don't use them at all.  Mind you I use quantum stockpiles liberally and put up with each piece of worn-out clothing being individually hauled to the depot for disposal.  Shrug.
Toady will give a proper answer at the end of the month. However, it seems like bin fixing would be a candidate for newbie friendliness adjustments (competing with far too many others). As feelotraveller pointed out, there have been multiple attempts to address the issue, each resulting in new undesired behaviors while fixing old ones, with each iteration a little bit better than the previous one.
I use quantum stockpiles and have bins only for garbage disposal via the trade depot, and don't care that a number of bins won't be hauled to the depot every time, as they can just wait for the next caravan. With individual hauling the dorfs consistently fail to bring all the garbage to the trade depot before the caravan leaves, so I had to sell what's been brought there when the "about to leave" warning arrives.
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Beag

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3115 on: March 27, 2020, 01:10:22 pm »

What update arc will you be working on after the steam release? Will it finally be the myth and magic arc or something else?
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3116 on: March 27, 2020, 02:51:08 pm »

Arc wise yes, but there's a lot of "non arc" stuff before that:
- Finishing Premium (both bug fixes and stuff that didn't make it, possibly in addition to things that may currently be planned to wait until then, as well as possible usability things that becomes pressing)
- Finishing Villains (or at least implementing the things that had to be postponed: there's always more that's possible to add...)
- Improved sieges, which may include some militia improvements (would be useful to have some tactics available when you can no longer rely on static geometry [i.e. hide behind corners] to counter the invaders in a somewhat organized fashion, for instance).
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kontako

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3117 on: March 28, 2020, 11:42:18 pm »

G'day all,
I've been a bit out of the loop so I was wondering if anyone could tell me:
Is there any consideration regarding having multiple z-levels rendered at once in the new graphical version (e.g. being able to view an entire mountain-side)
This is something I'd be excited to see.

Also:
Is the future map re-write planned to change how things are brought up and drawn on the screen during play, how the world map and structures are generated, or allow the player to expand the playable area. Perhaps somewhere between the three?
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3118 on: March 28, 2020, 11:45:34 pm »

G'day all,
I've been a bit out of the loop so I was wondering if anyone could tell me:
Is there any consideration regarding having multiple z-levels rendered at once in the new graphical version (e.g. being able to view an entire mountain-side)
This is something I'd be excited to see.
Yes. Everything TWBT can do is being attempted. You can follow work on this thread by the artists:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=173474.0

This interview from a week or two back (which wasn't linked to in the devblog for some reason) goes into both Steam release and future work in a fair amount of detail and is well worth listening to.
https://literate-gamer.zencast.website/episodes/172
« Last Edit: March 28, 2020, 11:50:31 pm by Shonai_Dweller »
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kontako

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3119 on: March 29, 2020, 02:01:36 am »

G'day all,
I've been a bit out of the loop so I was wondering if anyone could tell me:
Is there any consideration regarding having multiple z-levels rendered at once in the new graphical version (e.g. being able to view an entire mountain-side)
This is something I'd be excited to see.
Yes. Everything TWBT can do is being attempted. You can follow work on this thread by the artists:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=173474.0

This interview from a week or two back (which wasn't linked to in the devblog for some reason) goes into both Steam release and future work in a fair amount of detail and is well worth listening to.
https://literate-gamer.zencast.website/episodes/172

Thanks for that!
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