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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 866593 times)

PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3270 on: June 05, 2020, 11:23:25 am »

Has working on the Steam UI caused you to work on or otherwise revisit aspects of the game that you hadn't planned on getting to at this stage of development?
Work on the UI hasn't started yet.
Well, it might have done by the end of the month I guess...
The "actual" work may not have started yet, but ThreeToe has thought about it and the might have run a few side projects, so I think the question may still get a useful answer even if the main development activity hasn't reached the UI by the end of the month.

Any new insights on the new graphics architecture (e.g. separating the graphics from the sames)? Are you implementing in in parallel to the general graphics-rewrite, or has that part of the project yet to be started?
I think you may want to revise that question. I, at least, fail to understand it, and I assume you want to be sure Toady understands what you mean when it's time to answer it. Hm, ah "sames" should be "saves" (I was barking up the multi thread tree).
When you're at it "in in" should probably be "it in".
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bool1989

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3271 on: June 05, 2020, 01:17:35 pm »

Toady, have you given anything thought at all about knucking down and working on fixing bugs and improving the games stability?

In my experiance, the game crashes on a regular basis. During ragular playtime, I can expect the game to crash 3 or 4 times, if it wasn't for DF hack quicksave, and LNP seasonal saves, i would have lost my progress every single time.

Please, stop whatever features you're working on now and focus on improving the games stability, you don't have to change the game itself, just make it more stable. Please. 
« Last Edit: June 05, 2020, 07:11:13 pm by bool1989 »
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Inarius

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3272 on: June 05, 2020, 04:53:18 pm »

Hi bool1989
if you want to ask something to Toady you should use the lime green color, or any green actually, like this
You can edit your text and change the paragraph if you want.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3273 on: June 05, 2020, 04:57:08 pm »

Toady, have you given anything thought at all about knucking down and working on fixing bugs and improving the games stability?

In my experiance, the game crashes on a regular basis. During ragular playtime, I can expect the game to crash 3 or 4 times, if it wasn't for DF hack quicksave, and LNP seasonal saves, i would have lost my progress every single time.

Please, stop whatever features you're working on now and focus on improving the games stability, you don't have to change the game itself, just make it more stable. Please. 
The convention is to use (lime) green for questions to Toady so he can locate them while answering (you can update your post to add color).

Stop everything and work on stability isn't an option at the moment. The Premium release has to happen, and there are probably contractual obligations tied to it (including when it has to be released, which Toady has said he wants to do before the end of the year).

I sympathize with you, and would like the stability to be improved as well, but a crucial point is to find the causes of the crashes, and that, typically, requires saves uploaded and linked to on the bug tracker, and those saves would need to reliably show the crashes (rather than the typical situation of crashing often, but with no visible cause, with the same save sometimes crashing almost immediately, and sometimes running for a season without issues).
Crash bugs are the highest priority bugs to fix, but they have to be found first, and often a crashing save isn't sufficient, as it just shows that some structure has been corrupted, with no sign of what caused it (like the raid equipment corruption bug: the symptoms are well known, but the causes are not. Toady has tried to fix it, but since it's still happening there are more causes than the one(s) he dealt with). The time after the Premium release and its inevitable bug fix releases will be a critical time for stability, though.
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Broms

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3274 on: June 05, 2020, 06:00:55 pm »

Are there any plans to expand the 'd'etail function to some of the older hard coded reactions like prepare meal, mill plant, mill seeds, or dye cloth? It would go a long way in terms of user experience and would save a lot of linked stock pile hassle.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3275 on: June 05, 2020, 07:12:23 pm »

Toady, have you given anything thought at all about knucking down and working on fixing bugs and improving the games stability?

In my experiance, the game crashes on a regular basis. During ragular playtime, I can expect the game to crash 3 or 4 times, if it wasn't for DF hack quicksave, and LNP seasonal saves, i would have lost my progress every single time.

Please, stop whatever features you're working on now and focus on improving the games stability, you don't have to change the game itself, just make it more stable. Please. 
The convention is to use (lime) green for questions to Toady so he can locate them while answering (you can update your post to add color).

Stop everything and work on stability isn't an option at the moment. The Premium release has to happen, and there are probably contractual obligations tied to it (including when it has to be released, which Toady has said he wants to do before the end of the year).

I sympathize with you, and would like the stability to be improved as well, but a crucial point is to find the causes of the crashes, and that, typically, requires saves uploaded and linked to on the bug tracker, and those saves would need to reliably show the crashes (rather than the typical situation of crashing often, but with no visible cause, with the same save sometimes crashing almost immediately, and sometimes running for a season without issues).
Crash bugs are the highest priority bugs to fix, but they have to be found first, and often a crashing save isn't sufficient, as it just shows that some structure has been corrupted, with no sign of what caused it (like the raid equipment corruption bug: the symptoms are well known, but the causes are not. Toady has tried to fix it, but since it's still happening there are more causes than the one(s) he dealt with). The time after the Premium release and its inevitable bug fix releases will be a critical time for stability, though.
Bug fix up is part of Steam development. The three or four known crash bugs (equipment/raiding, item search in manager, refusing artifacts) are likely the main candidates to be addressed at this point.

Generally "it crashes every two minutes" reports are caused by either already corrupted saves continuing to be used (equipment/raiding) or using crashy third party memory hacks (which the questioner says they are doing).

Take a listen to this recent interview. It covers everything going into the Steam release. (Not likely to be out this year by the way.)
https://literate-gamer.zencast.website/episodes/172
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Sarmatian123

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3276 on: June 06, 2020, 12:49:00 am »

Toady, have you given anything thought at all about knucking down and working on fixing bugs and improving the games stability?

In my experience, the game crashes on a regular basis. During regular playtime, I can expect the game to crash 3 or 4 times, if it wasn't for DF hack quicksave, and LNP seasonal saves, i would have lost my progress every single time.

Please, stop whatever features you're working on now and focus on improving the games stability, you don't have to change the game itself, just make it more stable. Please. 


As, I read Toady's earlier declarations from before Steam, in previous releases of "Future of the Fortress", that there will be a time before magic release, when Toady will take care of some bugs and missing features. However from Steam change, some bugs, features or game balancing will be fixed by Toady on monthly basis, so Steam paying customers will be placated. Toady is just discovering need for version maintenance. It will be probably manual like on Hithub, rather then automatic like on Jenkins server. So do not expect Toady to give you an answer to this particular issue, your question is actually about.

Toady did not prommis to fix play-ability of Adventure Mode or its auto-spawn issues and all bugs crushing it to desktop (0 weight squirrel crush bug, trading foreign items and then revisiting crush bug, repetitious animal spawns in same location lag/crash bug, trolls and so on overflow in Dark Tower immense lag and so on and so on).

Toady did not prommis to fix auto-conversion for old saves, so generated worlds will be missing all new features, which can be solutions to some old bugs.
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Kobold6

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3277 on: June 11, 2020, 10:58:30 pm »

Toady One, I see you talking about a lot of work with doing identifiers-- I wonder how systematic it is that you're doing the actual job. I expect the job to be rather systematically compling a list of relevant tiles and then linking up identifiers to tile maps, possibly with identifier text files for the images. Can you speak a little about what sort of job you're doing that requires so much work with what I (probably mistakenly) imagine to be manual identifiers?
« Last Edit: June 11, 2020, 11:00:47 pm by Kobold6 »
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ArrowheadArcher

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3278 on: June 15, 2020, 12:55:05 am »

Tody One, I'm a modder. I use mostly real-world values in my mods for weapons, creatures sizes, etc. It would be quite helpful if we could get more info on the units used in DF, along with features that allow for us to see it, much like how DFHack does. I know that SIZE, BODYSIZE, and contact area and penetration depth in ATTACK is cm3, temp, and weight in Urists (1 U degree is equal to 102 degrees Fahrenheit and 1 U is equal 1 Kg)[1], but I don't know about SHOOT_FORCE, SHOOT_MAXVEL, and *_STRAIN_AT_YIELD. It would be really nice to see if these have some kind of unit or other equivalents.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3279 on: June 15, 2020, 01:20:04 am »

Tody One, I'm a modder. I use mostly real-world values in my mods for weapons, creatures sizes, etc. It would be quite helpful if we could get more info on the units used in DF, along with features that allow for us to see it, much like how DFHack does. I know that SIZE, BODYSIZE, and contact area and penetration depth in ATTACK is cm3, temp, and weight in Urists (1 U degree is equal to 102 degrees Fahrenheit and 1 U is equal 1 Kg)[1], but I don't know about SHOOT_FORCE, SHOOT_MAXVEL, and *_STRAIN_AT_YIELD. It would be really nice to see if these have some kind of unit or other equivalents.
No, 10000 Urists = 0 Celsius = 32 Fahrenheit = Water freezing.
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Mort Stroodle

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3280 on: June 15, 2020, 02:50:59 pm »

snip
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Buttery_Mess

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3281 on: June 16, 2020, 06:01:18 am »

With the graphical improvements coming being applied to the current version (or something like it), will the map updates coming with the developments that precursor the myth and magic release require new artwork and/or render old artwork obsolete?

Now that we can actually see which way slopes point, can we order dwarves to carve out specifically oriented ramps?

Does it look cool when fluids dribble down slopes or does it sort of ignore them?
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But .... It's so small!
It's not the size of the pick that counts... it's the size of the man with the pick.

Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3282 on: June 16, 2020, 06:42:00 am »

With the graphical improvements coming being applied to the current version (or something like it), will the map updates coming with the developments that precursor the myth and magic release require new artwork and/or render old artwork obsolete?

Probably yes.
As an example magical areas, land made of giant eggs and far out mushy things have been mentioned. Maybe floating islands will require some new graphics too? All the new procgen critters of course.

And workshop zones will likely make the workshops obsolete (presumably elements of them can be reused).
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3283 on: June 16, 2020, 07:05:42 am »

As Shonai_Dweller indicates, there will be a need for additional artwork, and some small parts will likely become obsolete, but the bulk of it will probably remain. When new bizarre worlds become available either as playable worlds or as reachable "dimensions", all of that will require new art, as would their specific critters (which might be a mix between procedural and extensions to the current "static" gallery of critters).

Machinery, when that comes, will require new art, starting scenarios will probably add new details, and so on.

Also note that what we've seen is still early, and the artists will probably iterate on many things for a fair while, so while an improved peacock (random example, with no relation to the quality of the current image) would make the current one "obsolete", it would still essentially be "the peacock" image.
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Buttery_Mess

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3284 on: June 16, 2020, 11:37:19 am »

I was thinking more along the lines of new realistic igneous intrusions replacing previous artwork for displaying gabbro and basalt differently, or something.
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But .... It's so small!
It's not the size of the pick that counts... it's the size of the man with the pick.
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