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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 975105 times)

Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3405 on: August 09, 2020, 09:23:03 pm »





Will there be daytime/nighttime change in DF? At least purely cosmetically it would be nice IMO.




To add to this. This was decided really early on by the community in part. There wont be a day/night cycle in Fort mode because players valued having some dorfs always active over period of time where there were no dorfs active.
Well, if Toady really wanted it, this could be overcome. I imagine dwarves without a need for sunlight would adapt well to shift work. But, yeah, it's a massive change to the whole of Fortress Mode which most likely isn't worth it until the simulation demands perfect synchronisation between Adventurer and Fortress (and whatever other modes there are in that far, far away scenario).
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CaptainArchmage

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3406 on: August 10, 2020, 06:13:06 am »

Will 24-bit colors for text display mentioned in the 08/08/2020 dev post also be in the classic game?
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clinodev

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3407 on: August 10, 2020, 06:48:13 am »

Will 24-bit colors for text display mentioned in the 08/08/2020 dev post also be in the classic game?

What we've been told is that the tileset, sound pack and music, Steam Workshop integration, and apparently some UI frame art, are Premium exclusive, but everything else including the code hooks and information required to add your own tileset, sound pack, and music with new features will be available to Classic users. Steam Workshop integration can't be shared (because of how Steam works,) which is why a Steam key comes with an itch.io purchase to ensure feature parity.

Not only does this provide most benefits to the community at large, but it keeps the code as close as possible between the versions, which keeps things simple for development. I suspect, in practice, he'll update classic and then add the Premium stuff to it for the Premium build.

Meph teased in the first Kitfox Discord AMA, (I believe, it might have been the reddit AMA the next day, it was a busy week for me,) that he'll have a free tileset available at launch.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2020, 06:54:43 am by clinodev »
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3408 on: August 10, 2020, 06:51:00 am »

Well, if Toady really wanted it, this could be overcome. I imagine dwarves without a need for sunlight would adapt well to shift work. But, yeah, it's a massive change to the whole of Fortress Mode which most likely isn't worth it until the simulation demands perfect synchronisation between Adventurer and Fortress (and whatever other modes there are in that far, far away scenario).

Also that if its too regular or irregular, creatures & sentient beings will probably end up sleeping or being active during particular periods because they already have rules on whether they rise during the day, dusk, morning, evening or night defined in tokens. Though everything else took into account too, like were-beasts having definite windows to be active, what time people should sleep, and the presence of things like bogeymen or creatures that dissapate in daylight.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3409 on: August 10, 2020, 07:20:53 am »

Well, if Toady really wanted it, this could be overcome. I imagine dwarves without a need for sunlight would adapt well to shift work. But, yeah, it's a massive change to the whole of Fortress Mode which most likely isn't worth it until the simulation demands perfect synchronisation between Adventurer and Fortress (and whatever other modes there are in that far, far away scenario).

Also that if its too regular or irregular, creatures & sentient beings will probably end up sleeping or being active during particular periods because they already have rules on whether they rise during the day, dusk, morning, evening or night defined in tokens. Though everything else took into account too, like were-beasts having definite windows to be active, what time people should sleep, and the presence of things like bogeymen or creatures that dissapate in daylight.
Yeah. I mean, it sounds like it'd be a fun game. It's just not the game people enjoy playing right now. So not something to approach lightly. Maybe the result of another Big Wait in the far future which changes so much that a Fortress Mode gameplay rewrite is a minor detail and has the assurance that we always have a "stable" version of the previous version to fall back on.
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Bumber

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3410 on: August 10, 2020, 12:32:33 pm »

Will there be daytime/nighttime change in DF? At least purely cosmetically it would be nice IMO.

Even if it was just cosmetic, something would have to be done about lighting the underground. It wouldn't make sense to have it change with the surface, and perpetual nighttime underground isn't satisfying either.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2020, 12:44:16 pm by Bumber »
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3411 on: August 10, 2020, 12:42:13 pm »

Well, if Toady really wanted it, this could be overcome. I imagine dwarves without a need for sunlight would adapt well to shift work. But, yeah, it's a massive change to the whole of Fortress Mode which most likely isn't worth it until the simulation demands perfect synchronisation between Adventurer and Fortress (and whatever other modes there are in that far, far away scenario).

Also that if its too regular or irregular, creatures & sentient beings will probably end up sleeping or being active during particular periods because they already have rules on whether they rise during the day, dusk, morning, evening or night defined in tokens. Though everything else took into account too, like were-beasts having definite windows to be active, what time people should sleep, and the presence of things like bogeymen or creatures that dissapate in daylight.
Yeah. I mean, it sounds like it'd be a fun game. It's just not the game people enjoy playing right now. So not something to approach lightly. Maybe the result of another Big Wait in the far future which changes so much that a Fortress Mode gameplay rewrite is a minor detail and has the assurance that we always have a "stable" version of the previous version to fall back on.
Yes, changing the time progression of Fortress to 1/72 of the current rate would result in something rather different. However, expanding Adventure Mode with options that allows you to manage a fortress might well be fun in its own way (and at the other end of the scale we have the Civ management level that could either be an optional extension to Fortress Mode, or its own mode where you don't control any site in detail).

Will there be daytime/nighttime change in DF? At least purely cosmetically it would be nice IMO.

Even if it was just cosmetic, something would have to be done about lighting the underground. It wouldn't make sense to have it change with the surface, and perpetual nighttime underground isn't satisfying either.
The rate is a too slow to act as a stroboscope, but fast enough to be really annoying, so it it's introduced, I hope it can be disabled with an option (or, better, enabled by those who want it). Underground would presumably have its own perpetual twilight level from abstract light sources.
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Bumber

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3412 on: August 10, 2020, 12:50:19 pm »

The rate is a too slow to act as a stroboscope, but fast enough to be really annoying, so it it's introduced, I hope it can be disabled with an option (or, better, enabled by those who want it). Underground would presumably have its own perpetual twilight level from abstract light sources.

You could have nighttime last a week or so instead.

Don't tint the underground light, though. Need the silver to look silver.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2020, 12:51:52 pm by Bumber »
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Reading his name would trigger it. Thinking of him would trigger it. No other circumstances would trigger it- it was strictly related to the concept of Bill Clinton entering the conscious mind.

THE xTROLL FUR SOCKx RUSE WAS A........... DISTACTION        the carp HAVE the wagon

A wizard has turned you into a wagon. This was inevitable (Y/y)?

Egan_BW

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3413 on: August 10, 2020, 12:50:49 pm »

Really, I hope that the fort timescale gets changed to match adventure mode at some point. With a timeskip mode so that building doesn't take forever.
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Bumber

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3414 on: August 10, 2020, 02:16:29 pm »

Is it true that long term memories can't be replaced by short term memories of equal strength? This Reddit thread seems to think it's the cause of major stress issues.
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Reading his name would trigger it. Thinking of him would trigger it. No other circumstances would trigger it- it was strictly related to the concept of Bill Clinton entering the conscious mind.

THE xTROLL FUR SOCKx RUSE WAS A........... DISTACTION        the carp HAVE the wagon

A wizard has turned you into a wagon. This was inevitable (Y/y)?

FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3415 on: August 10, 2020, 04:03:16 pm »

Is it true that long term memories can't be replaced by short term memories of equal strength? This Reddit thread seems to think it's the cause of major stress issues.

If such a thing was rectified then least there will be a natural circular loop around losing things like spouses, pets, children, masterwork objects, (things that can be replaced given patience) and increase the urgency to rectify big heavy blows to dwarf egos like losing their artifacts or suffering significant irreperable body-trauma, outside `trickle trickle` stress problems or highly stressful enviroments, solved by simple sedentary retirement.

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FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3416 on: August 11, 2020, 08:53:12 am »

Dwarf Fortress Talk #25 was interesting as always, especially on your thoughts about the unimplemented features about deeper intrigue and the villian & how the army-controller interacts with everyone else, its not like brand new information to people who follow FOTF but nice to hear a contemporary retelling about it.

Considering that when you subjugate goblins after much back and forth raiding & bashing up they don't really keep their promises at all to send you their agreed continous tribute, will you expect a further implementation of sending actors to these sites to do intrigue can help reinforce them doing 'what you want them to do' implicitly the game guessing for you on circumstance, or will there be details?

Whether the animosity felt by goblins or their lack of ethic respect for oaths had anything to do with a wrapped up finished war with the tribute getting hot again, im not entirely sure. But im hopeful that it might least be remedial to the problems currently experienced where other civs pass you off with a wink, rush your baron early with population or just terminate their agreements flippantly (besides elves, those sticklers always expect you to do what they want with quotas *sigh*).

I think, i had a save where i had enough population for a duke within the Autumnal season of the first year, with the liason simply by measure of elves & goblins wildly economic settling near me with message spam, and when they were inaugerated all of the sites just turned their noses up and feigned that they didn't know us by not allowing us to expel there or request anybody.

Sounds like a geniune reason for dwarves to get riled up for sure, it might just be a undiagnosed broach of oath-making & breaking against the dwarven civilization i could put onto the Mantis Tracker.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2020, 08:55:39 am by FantasticDorf »
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Immortal-D

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3417 on: August 13, 2020, 05:33:16 pm »

Regarding the recent UI update posted for Steam; Can you yet say how much of an overhaul the Labors menu will receive?  Will there be functional changes beyond graphics & mouse scrolling?  i.e. the abilities of Dwarf Therapist utility to mass-apply labors and create custom 'professions' (a saved grouping of labors).

Edit: Do you have any new info regarding the Game Ending Stress thread?
« Last Edit: August 13, 2020, 05:35:56 pm by Immortal-D »
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3418 on: August 13, 2020, 05:42:16 pm »

Regarding the recent UI update posted for Steam; Can you yet say how much of an overhaul the Labors menu will receive?  Will there be functional changes beyond graphics & mouse scrolling?  i.e. the abilities of Dwarf Therapist utility to mass-apply labors and create custom 'professions' (a saved grouping of labors).

Edit: Do you have any new info regarding the Game Ending Stress thread?
In a couple of recent interviews (and one of the Dftalks maybe) he said he would prefer something closer to auto-labor to help with labor settings. But that providing options for people who prefer spreadsheet micromanagement is important too). Seemed like this was all part of the updates for Steam.

Guess we might know more by the end of the month though.

(Hope spreadsheet micromanagement hell never becomes the standard interface personally...)
« Last Edit: August 13, 2020, 05:46:12 pm by Shonai_Dweller »
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3419 on: August 14, 2020, 01:36:48 am »

So much to say about the new UI!
But I think I'll go with...

The top tab on the embark screen says "Dwarves". Is that a procedurally generated word that changes automatically in modded games? Or if not, can it be changed by modders?

(I understand the colors and things are likely moddable, but a lot of text in the current version is hard-coded, would be nice not to have more of it).
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