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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 2850869 times)

Showbiz

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3690 on: December 02, 2020, 04:43:57 am »

1. Any chance we get a GOG release?

2. Will it be visually perceptible if a creature is hurt or will it be shown what body parts are injured/missing?
« Last Edit: December 02, 2020, 04:51:59 am by Showbiz »
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LordL

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3691 on: December 02, 2020, 06:30:25 am »


1)What are the bounds between creation myth and actual world history? Will there be a strict bound where the world "has been created" and the year 1 begins? Will we be able to affect it for example by playing adventure mode while gods do their active job?
2)I've heard that creation myth will do explanations for the afterlife. How will afterlife be incorporated into the game? Is it gonna track what happens to historical figures in their afterlife? Maybe they even do some celestial carrier and then will be able to interact with gods? Or maybe going to hell and be able to become demons somehow?
3)If things from previous really happen in some form, how will it affect the adventure mode? Does this mean that death of your adventurer is no longer a gameover?
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clinodev

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3692 on: December 02, 2020, 06:57:19 am »

1. Any chance we get a GOG release?

This has been addressed elsewhere by Kitfox Games, who have been engaged to handle these sorts of details.

They said basically that they weren't opposed to the idea, but already had extensive connections with itch.io and Steam, but none with GOG.

I like GOG myself, as I'm a fan of retro games they often sell for cheap, but I don't really care where I buy DF. Is there any particular reason you have for wanting to buy it from GOG that I could pass on to Kitfox?
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Silverwing235

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3693 on: December 02, 2020, 08:45:35 am »


1)What are the bounds between creation myth and actual world history? Will there be a strict bound where the world "has been created" and the year 1 begins? Will we be able to affect it for example by playing adventure mode while gods do their active job?
2)I've heard that creation myth will do explanations for the afterlife. How will afterlife be incorporated into the game? Is it gonna track what happens to historical figures in their afterlife? Maybe they even do some celestial carrier and then will be able to interact with gods? Or maybe going to hell and be able to become demons somehow?
3)If things from previous really happen in some form, how will it affect the adventure mode? Does this mean that death of your adventurer is no longer a gameover?


Applying a much-needed fix. Entry #2 is kind of jumping the gun, by the way, which means there's nothing to speak of just yet.
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LordL

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3694 on: December 02, 2020, 08:55:46 am »

2. Will it be visually perceptible if a creature is hurt or will it be shown what body parts are injured/missing?
We have already seen footages of guts so yes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LaVZn2QKuA&list=PLcOt9GXNrkgiejOzLVHGU8ra8VwAv0Knw&index=3&ab_channel=Blind
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3695 on: December 02, 2020, 09:01:20 am »


1)What are the bounds between creation myth and actual world history? Will there be a strict bound where the world "has been created" and the year 1 begins? Will we be able to affect it for example by playing adventure mode while gods do their active job?
2)I've heard that creation myth will do explanations for the afterlife. How will afterlife be incorporated into the game? Is it gonna track what happens to historical figures in their afterlife? Maybe they even do some celestial carrier and then will be able to interact with gods? Or maybe going to hell and be able to become demons somehow?
3)If things from previous really happen in some form, how will it affect the adventure mode? Does this mean that death of your adventurer is no longer a gameover?

1. I'd expect it to be the same as it is currently, i.e. Myth world creation plays out, then year 1 happens and history starts. However, the myth stuff doesn't end, as whatever it created still exists and can influence the world. A hypothetical example would be a prophecy generated during myth gen that then gets fulfilled during history, and another might be that a godlike myth generated entity severs connections to a magic realm or opens a connection to another.
2/3. It most likely won't be any implementation in the first Myth & Magic release (and possibly not in the first arc either). When implemented, its effects would depend on what the afterlife is like. If your soul gets sent to heaven/hell I can imagine a (late) implementation of continued play in those places, while reincarnation might offer you the option to be reincarnated upon death, starting as a new character but with more or less knowledge intact. It all depends on what those afterlives look like. In a fully mundane world the afterlife is just a myth, so death is the end of it.
If there is play in the afterlife, it's not unreasonable to allow an adventurer to try to claw himself back to the world of the living, either in the afterlife form or somehow regaining the previous form or a similar one (i.e. become e.g. a dwarf again). It wouldn't be unreasonable to allow for an Orpheus trip to the afterlife either.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2020, 04:55:24 am by PatrikLundell »
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FrankVill

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3696 on: December 02, 2020, 04:22:52 pm »

In fortress mode, I can see a meticulous and detailed description of the physical appearance and psychological state of each of my dwarves. They are all unique in terms of their way of being, preferences, memories, etc ... The same can also be observed in residents of different races, such as an elf who lives in my fortress.
At the level of physical appearance, dwarves and elves clearly differ from each other, but at a psychological level there are no elements that allow me to differentiate them (perhaps I have overlooked some detail that may currently be present).

Looking to the future:
- How do you consider differentiating the personalities between two or several races / species to the point that they may have some incompatibilities between them? For example, that a race thinks in a certain way due to its genetics.
- Or, on the contrary, do you think it is better to have a common psychological framework for each intelligent creature and let external elements (culture, religion, professions, civilizations...) shape and define the psychology of each one?
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MalroktheIII

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3697 on: December 02, 2020, 04:51:13 pm »

1: With the magic arc, how disgustingly powerful do you expect super soldier programs to get? Are there going to be any restrictions or drawbacks that prevent or dissuade players from giving their dwarves most/every power/curse that is generated in their world? If so, have you thought of any yet?

2:Secondarily, in the magic arc, how much could dead dwarves effect fort mode? Right now we have ghosts, but how much bigger is it going to get on that front?

3:Thirdly in them magic arc, (Someone's probably asked this, but I'll ask anyway): what level of magic would you be able to pull off in fort mode without "special preparation" (eg: use of dump piles or pitting or something, as opposed to just setting a dwarf to a task)

4:I know that we'll probably eventually be able to play as other races, once you flesh them out enough, so, once you can, if you get conquered by an enemy force, would you have the option to play them controlling the fortress? (or alternatively, just as your conquered dwarves, but oppressed)
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3698 on: December 02, 2020, 04:54:31 pm »

In fortress mode, I can see a meticulous and detailed description of the physical appearance and psychological state of each of my dwarves. They are all unique in terms of their way of being, preferences, memories, etc ... The same can also be observed in residents of different races, such as an elf who lives in my fortress.
At the level of physical appearance, dwarves and elves clearly differ from each other, but at a psychological level there are no elements that allow me to differentiate them (perhaps I have overlooked some detail that may currently be present).

Looking to the future:
- How do you consider differentiating the personalities between two or several races / species to the point that they may have some incompatibilities between them? For example, that a race thinks in a certain way due to its genetics.
- Or, on the contrary, do you think it is better to have a common psychological framework for each intelligent creature and let external elements (culture, religion, professions, civilizations...) shape and define the psychology of each one?

The currently chosen path is to have the civ define its members, which is why "goblin" invasions can consist of mostly non goblins, and visiting goblins don't generally have the "murder: private matter" ethics, because they tend to come from non goblin civs (the exception is the performance troupes, where its members [and not restricted to goblin ones] can be members of a goblin civ as well, and then act as spies).

If, in a post Myth & Magic world, you'd have widely different species it might be possible to have divides too large to cross, e.g. a fully carnivorous species (i.e. one that can't process vegetable matter as food at all) that considers everything but members of its own species as prey, or hive mind species whose thought processes are too different from everyone else for them to integrate into other societies. However, if we're on the level of races (using the old definition of "species" as too far separated to produce fertile offspring), then the current DF races would probably be races, i.e. sub divisions among a single species once inter racial offspring has been handled, and in that situation there would probably be too little difference between them to have genetic racial mental incompatibilities.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3699 on: December 03, 2020, 03:05:06 am »

1: With the magic arc, how disgustingly powerful do you expect super soldier programs to get? Are there going to be any restrictions or drawbacks that prevent or dissuade players from giving their dwarves most/every power/curse that is generated in their world? If so, have you thought of any yet?

2:Secondarily, in the magic arc, how much could dead dwarves effect fort mode? Right now we have ghosts, but how much bigger is it going to get on that front?

3:Thirdly in them magic arc, (Someone's probably asked this, but I'll ask anyway): what level of magic would you be able to pull off in fort mode without "special preparation" (eg: use of dump piles or pitting or something, as opposed to just setting a dwarf to a task)

4:I know that we'll probably eventually be able to play as other races, once you flesh them out enough, so, once you can, if you get conquered by an enemy force, would you have the option to play them controlling the fortress? (or alternatively, just as your conquered dwarves, but oppressed)

Hopefully some interesting answers to come, but the main thing to remember is that it won't be the same every time. Mythgen cooks up procedurally generated connections and meaning for innate and learned magic powers with some pushes in certain directions for different races probably.

So in one world, Dwarves have the innate ability to lob magma balls. How fun. And in another dwarves have the arcane knowledge of how to change a bucket of water into a bucket of booze by gathering runes from the four corners of the earth (at the cost of only half of their blood). Great...
« Last Edit: December 03, 2020, 03:06:59 am by Shonai_Dweller »
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voliol

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3700 on: December 03, 2020, 03:59:55 am »

1: With the magic arc, how disgustingly powerful do you expect super soldier programs to get? Are there going to be any restrictions or drawbacks that prevent or dissuade players from giving their dwarves most/every power/curse that is generated in their world? If so, have you thought of any yet?

2:Secondarily, in the magic arc, how much could dead dwarves effect fort mode? Right now we have ghosts, but how much bigger is it going to get on that front?

3:Thirdly in them magic arc, (Someone's probably asked this, but I'll ask anyway): what level of magic would you be able to pull off in fort mode without "special preparation" (eg: use of dump piles or pitting or something, as opposed to just setting a dwarf to a task)

4:I know that we'll probably eventually be able to play as other races, once you flesh them out enough, so, once you can, if you get conquered by an enemy force, would you have the option to play them controlling the fortress? (or alternatively, just as your conquered dwarves, but oppressed)


Hopefully some interesting answers to come, but the main thing to remember is that it won't be the same every time. Mythgen cooks up procedurally generated connections and meaning for innate and learned magic powers with some pushes in certain directions for different races probably.

So in one world, Dwarves have the innate ability to lob magma balls. How fun. And in another dwarves have the arcane knowledge of how to change a bucket of water into a bucket of booze by gathering runes from the four corners of the earth (at the cost of only half of their blood). Great...

There’s also the notion of having pre-worldgen sliders to customize the myth aspects of your world. So you may set your world to be a hotpot of magic with hexagonal beings of pure light running about, or totally mundane with all the myths and magic being fictional, lacking even dwarves. Or something inbetweeen.
The exact sliders aren’t decided though, and I doubt they will before work on mythgen begins.

On 1:
Quote from: DFTalk 24
Rainseeker: Right. So, theoretically, you could have a magic system where it's completely overpowered and you could cause flowers to sprout from everyone's eyeballs and then win.
 
Toady One: Yeah, well, there's no winning because the other people that can do that can do that too, right? I think the idea about balance, in this case, we have to be careful with, because a fantasy universe is inherently unbalanced by its fantasy elements. And that's the whole point, right?[...]
Courtesy to JCsuper for the transcription, you can read it here: https://pastebin.com/knW3gzmw

LordL

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3701 on: December 03, 2020, 12:46:34 pm »

[color=lime_green]
1)What are the bounds between creation myth and actual world history? Will there be a strict bound where the world "has been created" and the year 1 begins? Will we be able to affect it for example by playing adventure mode while gods do their active job?
2)I've heard that creation myth will do explanations for the afterlife. How will afterlife be incorporated into the game? Is it gonna track what happens to historical figures in their afterlife? Maybe they even do some celestial carrier and then will be able to interact with gods? Or maybe going to hell and be able to become demons somehow?
3)If things from previous really happen in some form, how will it affect the adventure mode? Does this mean that death of your adventurer is no longer a gameover?
[/color]
1. I'd expect it to be the same as it is currently, i.e. Myth world creation plays out, then year 1 happens and history starts. However, the myth stuff doesn't end, as whatever it created still exists and can influence the world. A hypothetical example would be a prophecy generated during myth gen that then gets fulfilled during history, and another might be that a godlike myth generated entity severs connections to a magic realm or opens a connection to another.
2/3. It most likely won't be any implementation in the first Myth & Magic release (and possibly not in the first arc either). When implemented, its effects would depend on what the afterlife is like. If your soul gets sent to heaven/hell I can imagine a (late) implementation of continued play in those places, while reincarnation might offer you the option to be reincarnated upon death, starting as a new character but with more or less knowledge intact. It all depends on what those afterlives look like. In a fully mundane world the afterlife is just a myth, so death is the end of it.
If there is play in the afterlife, it's not unreasonable to allow an adventurer to try to claw himself back to the world of the living, either in the afterlife form or somehow regaining the previous form or a similar one (i.e. become e.g. a dwarf again). It wouldn't be unreasonable to allow for an Orpheus trip to the afterlife either.
I think that, since there are a lot of mythical concepts of afterlife out there, afterlife is gonna work differently in different worlds. Maybe we will be able to choose the general concepts like reincarnation, going to either heaven and hell, etc in the world settings
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eerr

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3702 on: December 03, 2020, 09:19:07 pm »


What do the evil villains do in their off-time?

« Last Edit: December 03, 2020, 09:26:32 pm by eerr »
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3703 on: December 04, 2020, 05:02:48 am »


What do the evil villains do in their off-time?

Based on necro tower spoils, necros seem to spend a lot of time writing books. Many, but certainly not all, on the secret of life and death.
Some necros obviously spend time performing hideous experiments, which may or may not be considered off time activities.

One might also assume "regular" villains to occasionally go to taverns to actually socialize, drink, and terrorize the other patrons with karaoke (the last with or without evil intent).
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Murr2

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3704 on: December 04, 2020, 12:20:32 pm »

Probably been asked before but will magic be able to use components? so the 50 barrels of dragonfly blood that the traders keep trying to pawn off on me will have some real (non Armok-related, of course) use?
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