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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 1288596 times)

FrankVill

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3885 on: March 02, 2021, 03:38:38 pm »

Thanks Toady!!
I did not expect such an extensive and wonderful answer. It blows the imagination about the future.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3886 on: March 02, 2021, 05:54:41 pm »


:
Is alchemy coming back?

Given that some form(s) of magic essentially would be magical alchemy, it would seem reasonable that "real world" alchemy (a.k.a. chemistry) would make it into the game, although it remains to be seen when (I'd guess a fairly bare bones magical alchemy system would make it into the first Myth & Magic arc).
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DogsRNice

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3887 on: March 02, 2021, 10:26:00 pm »

Will there ever be different reactions to certain events and things based on personality quirks? for example most dwarves are horrified by ghosts but some might be fascinated/excited by them and react accordingly or dwarves having phobias of things such as types of vermin
Maybe ghosts is the exception, but most events do give different reactions based on personality. It's more noticeable if you mod dwarves to have more extreme ranges of personality of course.

And dwarves have phobias, I think any vermin are possible sources, it's in their descriptions. Leads to their "friends" drawing pictures of them screaming while surrounded by spiders and so on...

probably should have mentioned the hateable stuff part in my post
i meant more of a fear like id definitely not make art of my phobias personally
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Libertine Angel

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3888 on: March 03, 2021, 05:51:59 pm »

Will statues in the graphics release have a backup placeholder appearance, or does their content being shown visually mean the "statue of a ." bug will be getting more serious investigation prior to release?
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3889 on: March 03, 2021, 06:19:13 pm »

Will statues in the graphics release have a backup placeholder appearance, or does their content being shown visually mean the "statue of a ." bug will be getting more serious investigation prior to release?
Lots of bugs will be looked at before Steam release. It's part of this arc's development plan. And if a statue relating to a farmer's guild doesn't display because of this bug, it'll likely be fixed sooner because it'll be discovered naturally when testing art/statues.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3890 on: March 03, 2021, 06:20:51 pm »

Will there ever be different reactions to certain events and things based on personality quirks? for example most dwarves are horrified by ghosts but some might be fascinated/excited by them and react accordingly or dwarves having phobias of things such as types of vermin
Maybe ghosts is the exception, but most events do give different reactions based on personality. It's more noticeable if you mod dwarves to have more extreme ranges of personality of course.

And dwarves have phobias, I think any vermin are possible sources, it's in their descriptions. Leads to their "friends" drawing pictures of them screaming while surrounded by spiders and so on...

probably should have mentioned the hateable stuff part in my post
i meant more of a fear like id definitely not make art of my phobias personally
Neither do dwarves. People who don't like them make fun of them by depicting them surrounded by their feared vermin type.
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falcc

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3891 on: March 04, 2021, 10:32:54 am »

You spoke a little about pebbles in the recent DF Talk.

1. How do pebbles as terrain work?

2. Is there a way planned to reduce boulders to pebbly terrain, or was that just speculating about what you would need to do if there was a realistic amount of stone?

3. Are there any plans to introduce throwing combat into fortress mode or would our military love throwing their clothes too much for it to be sustainable?

4. Is there any chance of brave civilians tossing pebbles at an invading force, or a hated noble?
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3892 on: March 04, 2021, 11:48:17 am »

You spoke a little about pebbles in the recent DF Talk.

1. How do pebbles as terrain work?

2. Is there a way planned to reduce boulders to pebbly terrain, or was that just speculating about what you would need to do if there was a realistic amount of stone?

3. Are there any plans to introduce throwing combat into fortress mode or would our military love throwing their clothes too much for it to be sustainable?

4. Is there any chance of brave civilians tossing pebbles at an invading force, or a hated noble?

1. Currently it's essentially just a description.
2. There have been talk about partially dug out terrain, such that clay and sand deposits run out. When/if that's implemented you'd be able to do landscaping by moving soil a bucketful at a time (to e.g. prepare for farming on a rock floor, or level out the terrain). At a guess you'd get 999/1000 or something sand in a tile after taking a bag, while filling a mine cart with rocky debris would make a larger dent in a pile of broken rock (if that's implemented: might be too tedious).
3. I would be less worried about thrown clothing than thrown weapons (that are not intended to be thrown. Possible scenario: The marksdwarves empty their quivers of bolts, throw their crossbows, and THEN perform a suicide charge with their fists (in the second iteration. In the first one they'd start by throwing the crossbow)... Throwing items would require a new logic that let the dorfs evaluate whether the item they wield or otherwise have at hand would be any good for throwing, and then weigh throwing items against bashing the enemies with them, based on both whether there is a supply of additional suitable items, and whether they actually intend to enter melee or run away after throwing the items (and attacking from range and then run away would be a new behavior).
4. If I wanted to hurt someone I wouldn't throw a pebble or a fistful of pebbles, but a fist size or so stone. When it comes to invaders, throwing rocks would be a new combat behavior (essentially 3), while attacking hated public figures with the intent of actually causing an injury or just show disdain would require new logic for the dorfs to get them to have such a behavior in their repertoire (and probably some interesting [more or less lethal] food fights in the tavern while the parameters are tweaked).
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Rekov

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3893 on: March 05, 2021, 03:13:46 pm »

Do you anticipate potential problems where a mechanic could be easily implemented and rendered in the graphical version of dwarf fortress, but would be difficult to convey in the classic version? An example of this might be narrow barriers that are placed and drawn on the borders between tiles, rather than in the tiles themselves. Partitions for rooms, or fences for pastures, etc.

The graphical version opens a lot of possibilities up for DF, and I worry that the classical version might hold some of those back. Do you have thoughts about balancing potential new mechanics vs. backwards compatibility?
« Last Edit: March 05, 2021, 03:17:42 pm by Rekov »
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clinodev

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3894 on: March 09, 2021, 02:51:07 am »

With the new bedroom zones discussed in the March 8th DevLog, will we still be in a situation of having to draw hundreds of individual bedrooms? I can imagine a situation where the game knows to flood fill out from individual rooms defined by doors and walls, or perhaps beds, within the zone,  treating them as individual bedrooms but vastly simplifying player layout.

"So, does this mean we can actually make multi z-level tall bed/throne rooms (if their assignment works the same way as with other zones)?" --From /u/bbkilmister on reddit, excellent question!
« Last Edit: March 09, 2021, 06:09:58 am by clinodev »
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Lysabild

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3895 on: March 09, 2021, 04:45:10 am »

Will the workshops get the same treatment as rooms now or later? So instead of putting down a 3x3 'forge' you put down an anvil and whatever else it wants, letting you customize rooms much more while building.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3896 on: March 09, 2021, 05:15:45 am »

Will the workshops get the same treatment as rooms now or later? So instead of putting down a 3x3 'forge' you put down an anvil and whatever else it wants, letting you customize rooms much more while building.
Would be great to see, but I think that's a much bigger rewrite. I mean, a bedroom is a bedroom regardless of how you draw it. A 10x10 room which is now a designated "carpenter's zone" is a whole paradigm shift. Multiple workers, assistants, tools, what do you do with the space if you can designate a 5 z-level ultra-sized butchers workshop?
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3897 on: March 09, 2021, 05:38:09 am »

Will the workshops get the same treatment as rooms now or later? So instead of putting down a 3x3 'forge' you put down an anvil and whatever else it wants, letting you customize rooms much more while building.
Would be great to see, but I think that's a much bigger rewrite. I mean, a bedroom is a bedroom regardless of how you draw it. A 10x10 room which is now a designated "carpenter's zone" is a whole paradigm shift. Multiple workers, assistants, tools, what do you do with the space if you can designate a 5 z-level ultra-sized butchers workshop?
Yes, I agree that changing workshops into work zones is a fairly substantial change, and I doubt it would be possible to be done in a save compatible manner (at least with a reasonable effort). Changing rooms from being designated from a furniture to having that same furniture being placed in a zone still plays with the same components.

Changing a smithy from a building that requires an anvil to be built into a zone that requires one anvil per parallel anvil using job, plus additional tools, some of which are required for some tasks, and some for others reworks the not only the requirements for what you need for which jobs (which would have to be defined, probably requiring a rework of how reactions are defined and work), but also the order giving structure that probably shouldn't be a strict queue anymore, but you still want to be able to have some kind of control over what's done and in which order (there's no logical reason for the current loom to either host the job of collecting webs or processing webs, for instance: it's a consequence of how workshop orders are processed).
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Schmaven

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3898 on: March 09, 2021, 06:17:41 am »

With the new way that rooms are designated, will it still be possible to have overlapping room designations - such as a shared office / dining room?
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Lysabild

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3899 on: March 09, 2021, 06:22:03 am »

Would be great to see, but I think that's a much bigger rewrite. I mean, a bedroom is a bedroom regardless of how you draw it. A 10x10 room which is now a designated "carpenter's zone" is a whole paradigm shift. Multiple workers, assistants, tools, what do you do with the space if you can designate a 5 z-level ultra-sized butchers workshop?

Of course, but it'd also really tidy up the whole building menu and unify two otherwise kind of clashing ideas, so I thought I'd ask if it was in the cards for now or later, since the motivation for the change was motivated by new players ability to grabble with it.
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