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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 1674449 times)

Buttery_Mess

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4245 on: October 14, 2021, 09:43:27 am »



I see there have been changes to workshops, menus, and jobs, and I've seen the graphical representations of these changes, but for most of them I haven't seen corresponding ASCII versions. If I choose to use the ASCII version, will I be able to identify everything immediately or will many things be unfamiliar?

How well does all the information fit into an ASCII screen? How will it look at smaller than 1920x1080 resolution and/or resized windows?

I've seen how lower layers look in the graphical version, will there be similar effects in the ASCII version?

How wed are you to the ANSI colours, will you move to a broader colour palette in the ASCII version at any point?

Are you working in ASCII first and then moving to graphics, or are you working with graphics first and then going back to ASCII?

How do floaty menus work in ASCII? Do they snap to a grid or are they unaligned with the background graphics?

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Mr_Crabman

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4246 on: October 14, 2021, 09:59:53 am »

I see there have been changes to workshops, menus, and jobs, and I've seen the graphical representations of these changes, but for most of them I haven't seen corresponding ASCII versions. If I choose to use the ASCII version, will I be able to identify everything immediately or will many things be unfamiliar?

I've seen how lower layers look in the graphical version, will there be similar effects in the ASCII version?

Are you working in ASCII first and then moving to graphics, or are you working with graphics first and then going back to ASCII?

The ASCII version will have the same UI changes and layout, it just won't use textures, but ASCII-style stuff. It will be somewhat unfamiliar compared to the current ASCII UI just because of the layout and options, but art-wise it will probably be the same (ie black background etc)

The ASCII version will not show the lower layers by default, though someone could make a similar tileset that does enable lower layers.

He's doing graphics first and then ASCII (also, doing mouse stuff first before keyboard controls).
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4247 on: October 14, 2021, 10:57:53 am »

Character (not ASCII, as the code page used contains a different set of glyphs from that of ASCII) "graphics" are actually becoming tiles, and this means that the ties both to the old max character count of 256 and the colors used has been severed. Thus, expansions both glyph and color wise is a matter of deciding on them and creating those new tiles. However, readjusting this is probably not the top priority.

In addition to doing the mouse controls first and adding key bindings to the end, the UI widgets will start with the graphics ones and figuring out how to do it with character tiles will wait until the graphical UI widgets are finalized.

The game will have one grid for text and another one for graphics (and a third one for the overworld map), and I'd expect the grid to be the same regardless of the tile set used (i.e. character, mephday [i.e. Premium version], or third party). The code is intended to be the same between the versions (except for vendor integration things).
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Urist McSadist

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4248 on: October 21, 2021, 04:06:32 am »

1.Will mythologies and magic systems be customizable? And if that's the case, will they also be exportable?
2.Are there ever going to be procedural weapons?
3.Are cage traps and drawbridges going to get nerfed with the siege improvements?
4.Are guilds and religions going to be expanded upon before the big wait?
5.Are longer weapons like spears ever going to actually have more range?
« Last Edit: October 22, 2021, 02:45:17 am by Urist McSadist »
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4249 on: October 21, 2021, 04:31:27 am »

Will mythologies and magic systems be customizable? And if that's the case, will they also be exportable?

I mean unless something changes, it'll probably be the same kind of save export format that goes with a world_bat file you can look into when its not compressed, as well as some influecial RAWS, which are carried along from the moment a world is created.

So implicitly yes? Unless Toady contradicts that statement by announcing a difference to how the save system will work when exchanging peer to peer.
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PlumpHelmetMan

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4250 on: October 21, 2021, 08:18:40 am »

In answer to the first part of your question though: yes, they will definitely be customizable. Advanced settings for particular kinds of magic systems and mythologies are a big part of the plan.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4251 on: October 21, 2021, 11:10:36 am »

As others have mentioned, plans are to allow players to customize both mythologies and magic systems to a greater and lesser extent. Settings sliders (or whatever form they'll take) will allow for broad selections for magic and mundanity, while RAW specifications should allow you to tailor both magic and the mythology. Thus, to export such settings you'd have to introduce those custom RAW files you've cooked up. I believe a goal would be to be able to replicate real world mythologies, ideally in detail (Zeus slaying his father Kronos, etc.).

Procedural weapons have been discussed in the past and they are presumably still on the table for the future. I would assume the music/dance/poetry system set would serve as a starting point, hopefully with the addition that the generated names would contain sufficient indications of what they are that they can be used and assigned without examining each description in detail, memorizing what a glub, grub, and glug are in this world (or write it down in a spreadsheet) and wipe that memory for the next one.
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PlumpHelmetMan

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4252 on: October 21, 2021, 02:31:43 pm »

I also recall it being mentioned that a goal is for the custom RAWs to eventually allow you to replicate other pre-existing fantasy settings as well. So if you want to run Middle-earth or Forgotten Realms in DF, at that point there'd ideally be nothing stopping you.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2021, 02:38:25 pm by PlumpHelmetMan »
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Immortal-D

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4253 on: October 21, 2021, 06:25:44 pm »

On the subject of tackling the more complicated interfaces for Steam, have you had a chance to look at bins & containers in general? i.e. Seeds within bags within barrels within stockpiles.

FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4254 on: October 22, 2021, 10:12:15 am »

On the subject of tackling the more complicated interfaces for Steam, have you had a chance to look at bins & containers in general? i.e. Seeds within bags within barrels within stockpiles.

Seems like a rabbithole, but at current in DF with barrels and bags the interior container is always held opaque so you can dump/forbid the macro-container (barrel) or enter the bag and designate that from the inside of it; unlike the trade screen's way of spreading visible contents so its not easy to understand what exactly you're asking for if its regarding functionality (bugs like items jamming in bins) or UI presentation?


Questions of my own.

1) Would we maybe be seeing some of this equipment screen being designed for military recycled for domestic trinkets (earrings etc) on a dwarf's person in the future?

2) Lastly, with the slots assigned imparticular would they manifest with the BP of the creature using some of the existing cues like hearing token parts required for earrings? (ei, ettins would have two helmet-slots for two independent heads, or if BP was tokened not to, retracting the choice of a slot)

That last bit is a bit suggestiony, but i have faith that it might hopefully eliminate the long standing recessive code artifact that quadruped  people (along the lines of centaurs) wear two pairs of pants and shoes over their hooves.
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Bumber

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4255 on: October 27, 2021, 11:59:49 pm »

Spoiler: Original question (click to show/hide)

Edit: Actually, it would probably just be easier for you to post what all the reference enums (that link item, unit, etc., structs to other structs) are called.

DFHack calls them:

Code: (general_ref_type enum) [Select]
ARTIFACT  = 0
IS_ARTIFACT  = 1
NEMESIS  = 2
IS_NEMESIS  = 3
ITEM  = 4
ITEM_TYPE  = 5
COINBATCH  = 6
MAPSQUARE  = 7
ENTITY_ART_IMAGE  = 8
CONTAINS_UNIT  = 9
CONTAINS_ITEM  = 10
CONTAINED_IN_ITEM  = 11
PROJECTILE  = 12
UNIT  = 13
UNIT_MILKEE  = 14
UNIT_TRAINEE  = 15
UNIT_ITEMOWNER  = 16
UNIT_TRADEBRINGER  = 17
UNIT_HOLDER  = 18
UNIT_WORKER  = 19
UNIT_CAGEE  = 20
UNIT_BEATEE  = 21
UNIT_FOODRECEIVER  = 22
UNIT_KIDNAPEE  = 23
UNIT_PATIENT  = 24
UNIT_INFANT  = 25
UNIT_SLAUGHTEREE  = 26
UNIT_SHEAREE  = 27
UNIT_SUCKEE  = 28
UNIT_REPORTEE  = 29
BUILDING  = 30
BUILDING_CIVZONE_ASSIGNED  = 31
BUILDING_TRIGGER  = 32
BUILDING_TRIGGERTARGET  = 33
BUILDING_CHAIN  = 34
BUILDING_CAGED  = 35
BUILDING_HOLDER  = 36
BUILDING_WELL_TAG  = 37
BUILDING_USE_TARGET_1  = 38
BUILDING_USE_TARGET_2  = 39
BUILDING_DESTINATION  = 40
BUILDING_NEST_BOX  = 41
ENTITY  = 42
ENTITY_STOLEN  = 43
ENTITY_OFFERED  = 44
ENTITY_ITEMOWNER  = 45
LOCATION  = 46
INTERACTION  = 47
ABSTRACT_BUILDING  = 48
HISTORICAL_EVENT  = 49
SPHERE  = 50
SITE  = 51
SUBREGION  = 52
FEATURE_LAYER  = 53
HISTORICAL_FIGURE  = 54
ENTITY_POP  = 55
CREATURE  = 56
UNIT_RIDER  = 57
UNIT_CLIMBER  = 58
UNIT_GELDEE  = 59
KNOWLEDGE_SCHOLAR_FLAG  = 60
ACTIVITY_EVENT  = 61
VALUE_LEVEL  = 62
LANGUAGE  = 63
WRITTEN_CONTENT  = 64
POETIC_FORM  = 65
MUSICAL_FORM  = 66
DANCE_FORM  = 67
BUILDING_DISPLAY_FURNITURE  = 68
UNIT_INTERROGATEE  = 69

And the other, shorter enum list:
Code: (specific_ref_type enum) [Select]
UNIT  = 1
JOB  = 2
BUILDING_PARTY  = 3
ACTIVITY  = 4
ITEM_GENERAL  = 5
EFFECT  = 6
PETINFO_PET  = 7
PETINFO_OWNER  = 8
VERMIN_EVENT  = 9
VERMIN_ESCAPED_PET  = 10
ENTITY  = 11
PLOT_INFO  = 12
VIEWSCREEN  = 13
UNIT_ITEM_WRESTLE  = 14
NULL_REF  = 15
HIST_FIG  = 16
SITE  = 17
ARTIFACT  = 18
ITEM_IMPROVEMENT  = 19
COIN_FRONT  = 20
COIN_BACK  = 21
DETAIL_EVENT  = 22
SUBREGION  = 23
FEATURE_LAYER  = 24
ART_IMAGE  = 25
CREATURE_DEF  = 26
ENTITY_ART_IMAGE  = 27
ENTITY_POPULATION  = 29
BREED  = 30
NONE  = -1
What are the proper terms?

If VERMIN_ESCAPED_PET is similar to what you have, then you might want to double-check the code referenced in the original question.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2021, 05:45:23 pm by Bumber »
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Reading his name would trigger it. Thinking of him would trigger it. No other circumstances would trigger it- it was strictly related to the concept of Bill Clinton entering the conscious mind.

THE xTROLL FUR SOCKx RUSE WAS A........... DISTACTION        the carp HAVE the wagon

A wizard has turned you into a wagon. This was inevitable (Y/y)?

Bumber

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4257 on: October 28, 2021, 05:36:57 pm »


What is the question here, all of the post? Only the edit is marked in green.

Would like to know the proper names of the enum values, for verification. They're just integers in compiled code, so DFHack has them as best guesses based on use. Posting the correct names would be easier and more useful than answering the original (now unmarked and spoilered) question, which involves a specific segment of code.

DFHack's term "VERMIN_ESCAPED_PET" is either overly specific, DFHack's got something out of order, or Toady's code is checking the wrong one for some reason.

Edit: Just added the integer values to my post and noticed "CONTAINS_ITEM" and "VERMIN_ESCAPED_PET" share a value of 10. This might suggest it's an issue in the code, but "UNIT_HOLDER" doesn't have the same problem.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2021, 06:12:44 pm by Bumber »
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Reading his name would trigger it. Thinking of him would trigger it. No other circumstances would trigger it- it was strictly related to the concept of Bill Clinton entering the conscious mind.

THE xTROLL FUR SOCKx RUSE WAS A........... DISTACTION        the carp HAVE the wagon

A wizard has turned you into a wagon. This was inevitable (Y/y)?

Mobbstar

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4258 on: October 29, 2021, 04:03:58 am »

It has been mentioned before[1] that divine spheres will be customisable to some extend via the Mythgen params/editor.  Does it stop there?

Do you intend for spheres to become exposed in the Raws?  On one hand, they are supposed to be universal concepts that derive their flavour from intersection, and thus wouldn't need any raw mods.  On the other hand, some settings could benefit from revamping or adding spheres.  (e.g. The Long Night could split "animals" between "mutants" and "nanites", and add "machine" deities.)
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4259 on: October 29, 2021, 06:22:46 am »

It has been mentioned before[1] that divine spheres will be customisable to some extend via the Mythgen params/editor.  Does it stop there?

Reading off what I think you mean for Toady's reply, probably similarly to exposing FB's generation, parts of it are too embedded in to code (running stringdumps for data you can't re-use for instance) with not a lot of room for tokenization ; which got centralized, you can build your own FB's, Werebeasts, or Clowns and overlap them to replace the randomized ones, but this is still finnicky modding subject.

So when we might get a sphere with some token specification after the map-rewrite, it might be simple enough to document as we can already see with temple designs alternating through spheres related to dieties, dictating the kind of tokens for biome that a non-copy paste fantastical area-map would require (as that is the only thing outside of soil and populations that is static, and a more likely avenue for pursuing your question), then let the sphere run its course into interpreting that information, and really i dont think for a while we'll be able to inference more information behind this.

And the Mythgen uses this random-gen or input information, but it'd probably just work without mythgen as being "just there" with less intermediary details like the HFS, to randomize aspects of it like clown reincarnation/intelligent mortal afterlife stuff.
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