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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 2850800 times)

Buttery_Mess

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4950 on: November 17, 2022, 06:26:42 pm »

What sort of FPS does the new version run at? Have there been optimisations that make it run faster?

Can you limit the fort's population size from inside the game now, rather than having to do it through the init files?

For that matter, have most of the modifiable values which affect gameplay which were located in the init and d_init files been put into the main game?
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A_Curious_Cat

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4951 on: November 17, 2022, 10:45:05 pm »

What sort of FPS does the new version run at? Have there been optimisations that make it run faster?

Can you limit the fort's population size from inside the game now, rather than having to do it through the init files?

For that matter, have most of the modifiable values which affect gameplay which were located in the init and d_init files been put into the main game?



On a side note, have you seen this thread?  If so, what do you think of Putnam’s discovery?


Edit:  edited question.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2022, 01:26:29 pm by A_Curious_Cat »
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4952 on: November 18, 2022, 02:56:36 am »

I've edited my initial question for clarity. And I think I see your reasoning, though I am unsure if I agree with it, in regards to what is 'tangential.' But that's ultimately a matter of what is planned. If boats and trade weren't in the pipeline, I think I would agree more that is superfluous.

As the CDDA guy, I'm sure that you can understand the value of just a little generalization for 'future proofing' ;) (*cough* Z-Levels *cough*)

The map rewrite is likely to be a huge project in itself, which is then bundled up with Myth & Magic's first iteration. Therefore, adding additional time on the implementation of functionality that's not directly required by that first Myth & Magic iteration is not a stellar use of the time (or, rather, additional time added to get the release out). Things needed for trade and moving terrain need to be implemented at that time, but it's not required to actually be implemented as part of the map rewrite. The foundation is required, but not the implementation itself.
In addition to that, I'm not sure how hard climate generation is tied to the map itself. The map rewrite needs to allow for the creation and modification of (geo)biomes, but that may not mean the logic for implementing such generation and modification has to be completely fleshed out initially. For example, the initial implementation may "only" support world generation of world similar to the current DF world, with additional sphere support, but the underlying model ought to support the generation of worlds with completely different geo biomes and "ordinary" biomes using both alternative world generation models and sliding scale models which could be produced at a later date (when these are introduced).
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Urist McWiddershins

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4953 on: November 18, 2022, 12:45:43 pm »

Quote
The foundation is required, but not the implementation itself.

Both the variables and functions needed are already implemented. It simply is only enabled for temperature at the moment.

I want to explain how trivial I think that this problem is, so I'm going to make a separate thread. Stay tuned.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4954 on: November 20, 2022, 07:54:08 pm »

You mentioned in the interview the other day that the 200 or so animal people don't have the layers info in their graphics RAWS to show clothing, hairstyles and such visually. That's a lot of data, so seems reasonable.

1) Presumably there's no hard-coded restrictions on adding these ourselves in our mods (for those of us who play in worlds where rat people are far more important than elves)? Or will we run into issues with elephant-man helmets?

2) Is this something you consider as needed for releasing Adventurer (since surely no-one ever plays parties consisting entirely of dwarves, elves, humans and goblins)?

Apologies if it's all been answered before. Been in hibernation while this arc gets done.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2022, 09:03:37 pm by Shonai_Dweller »
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voliol

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4955 on: November 21, 2022, 07:01:32 am »

You mentioned in the interview the other day that the 200 or so animal people don't have the layers info in their graphics RAWS to show clothing, hairstyles and such visually. That's a lot of data, so seems reasonable.

A somewhat related question:

From my understanding, the creature variation templates will continue to only be for creatures in the upcoming release, instead of being generalized for all sorts of objects. I imagine this is some technical issue, but on which level?
And if it ends up being expanded/replaced by something more general, do you think it could work on graphics tokens as well? Admittedly a bit suggestion-y, but I think it could shorten the graphics files quite a lot using the argument functionality.

Mr Crabman

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4956 on: November 21, 2022, 08:11:34 am »

1. Are duplicated raws still a problem, or will mods later in the loading order that use the same ID for an object (eg, a creature) replace/overwrite definitions in previous mods?

2. Is there a way to disable/toggle certain raw files, within a single mod/package from the workshop? For example, after downloading a "More Creatures" mod from the workshop, having some ingame menu that lets you toggle say, amphibians off but keep the mod's birds. Or alternatively, some other solution that allows a single Workshop subscription/page to contain what is technically multiple mods (so that "granular" mods don't have to post a million entries to the workshop).

Eric Blank

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4957 on: November 21, 2022, 10:53:06 am »

2. Is there a way to disable/toggle certain raw files, within a single mod/package from the workshop? For example, after downloading a "More Creatures" mod from the workshop, having some ingame menu that lets you toggle say, amphibians off but keep the mod's birds. Or alternatively, some other solution that allows a single Workshop subscription/page to contain what is technically multiple mods (so that "granular" mods don't have to post a million entries to the workshop).

I had the same concern. Several people specifically asked me to add support for removing certain features from the mod I'm curating, which I did by splitting it into multiple parts as well as the single all-in-one version. With the steam release, will this modularity be possible from a single download now, i.e. uploading multiple object folders in the same steam mod and disabling the ones you don't want?
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LuuBluum

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4958 on: November 21, 2022, 05:42:52 pm »

How long has the changelog grown to, presuming that you've managed to keep one this whole time?
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Randomizer

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4959 on: November 25, 2022, 07:36:57 pm »

When will the caravans become more selective in the items they are willing to buy as well as the prices they put on items. They would act as real traders other then garbage collectors. They give a list of what they will accept. They may be convinced to take other stuff if it is of high quality and rare however.
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Randomizer

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4960 on: November 25, 2022, 07:45:58 pm »

How far off is the Improved Mechanics Update? (feasible trap mechanisms, springs, gears, ropes, pullies, piping, conveyer belts, maybe rock crushers, hydraulics?, Pneumatics?, etc.)
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4961 on: November 25, 2022, 10:06:31 pm »

How far off is the Improved Mechanics Update? (feasible trap mechanisms, springs, gears, ropes, pullies, piping, conveyer belts, maybe rock crushers, hydraulics?, Pneumatics?, etc.)
Likely would be part of the "Moving Fortress Parts and Ships" arc (by the current release schedule, which could very easily change of course).

So, Steam release.
Bug fixes

Villains completion + Adventurer.

Improved Sieges.

Big Wait (map rewrite & Initial Mythgen). (Likely several updates).

"Starting Scenarios" (the society & politics rewrite) (again, likely several updates).

Moving Fortress Parts & Ships.

With the activation of the world economy during play and all that implies slotted someplace in there.

So...far. But I guess some improved mechanics might be necessary for the Improved Sieges update.
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SamBucher

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4962 on: November 26, 2022, 12:44:27 pm »

The Dwarf Fortress development page mentions "automatons and magical prostheses" as part of Myth&Magic. These features seems innocent on the surface level, but actually raise a lot of question (hopefully not too many to answer):
1. Are the prostheses only for limbs, or will there be ones for every organ?
2. How will prostheses fair in comparison to the original body part?
3. Will there be magical prosthetics that give the user magic powers?
4. Will it be possible to:
4,1. attach a prosthetic in addition to a being's natural body parts? Imagine a craftsdwarf having 4 arms, 2 natural and 2 artificial, increasing work speed.
4,2. replace a healthy body part with a prosthetic one?
4,3. mix and match parts (replace a dwarf's legs with prosthetic arms)?
5. How much of a dwarf's body can be replaced until he is considered an automaton?
6. Will automatons be able to take roles of nobility?
7. Will there be automaton models besides the standard humanoid worker?
8. What will be the upkeep costs of an automaton (I presume they won't need food and alcohol)?
9. Will you be able to have an automaton-exclusive fortress or play as an automaton in adventure mode?
10. Will it be possible for one to achieve immortality not via necromancy, but by replacing aging flesh with machinery/putting one's soul into an automaton body?

Thank you in advance!
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Silverwing235

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4963 on: November 26, 2022, 01:46:23 pm »

When will the caravans become more selective in the items they are willing to buy as well as the prices they put on items. They would act as real traders other then garbage collectors. They give a list of what they will accept. They may be convinced to take other stuff if it is of high quality and rare however.

Excuse me, 'garbage collectors'? I think there may be a...very distorted perspective being had on those things, here, by virtue of the current year AD: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rag-and-bone_man
« Last Edit: November 26, 2022, 03:44:00 pm by Silverwing235 »
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Mr Crabman

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4964 on: November 26, 2022, 01:48:43 pm »

The Dwarf Fortress development page mentions "automatons and magical prostheses" as part of Myth&Magic. These features seems innocent on the surface level, but actually raise a lot of question (hopefully not too many to answer):
1. Are the prostheses only for limbs, or will there be ones for every organ?
2. How will prostheses fair in comparison to the original body part?
3. Will there be magical prosthetics that give the user magic powers?
4. Will it be possible to:
4,1. attach a prosthetic in addition to a being's natural body parts? Imagine a craftsdwarf having 4 arms, 2 natural and 2 artificial, increasing work speed.
4,2. replace a healthy body part with a prosthetic one?
4,3. mix and match parts (replace a dwarf's legs with prosthetic arms)?
5. How much of a dwarf's body can be replaced until he is considered an automaton?
6. Will automatons be able to take roles of nobility?
7. Will there be automaton models besides the standard humanoid worker?
8. What will be the upkeep costs of an automaton (I presume they won't need food and alcohol)?
9. Will you be able to have an automaton-exclusive fortress or play as an automaton in adventure mode?
10. Will it be possible for one to achieve immortality not via necromancy, but by replacing aging flesh with machinery/putting one's soul into an automaton body?[/color]
Thank you in advance!

Not Toady, but:

1. Probably; prostheses will have to be coded to be able to act as stand-ins for body parts and their functions (eg, GRASP), so why not the other functions as well?

2. Definitely would vary from world-to-world, and situation to situation. Some prostheses will be crude peg-legs and hook hands (pretty much all worlds will have this I imagine), others will be magical automail arms, others may be literally fully living organic replacements, or even be improvements over the original.

3. Definitely, in some worlds; prosthetics would be some sort of item/equipment/body part blend, and all of these are going to have potential to be magical.

4. I wouldn't be surprised if all of these were possible, given that lots of weird body transformation stuff is planned anyway.

5. May depend on the world. I'd guess it would be whenever their thought body part is replaced, and/or their soul is lost/replaced. What's the difference between a "flesh automaton" and a "normal person"? It's all fuzzy, just words.

6. Probably, depending on what "automaton" means, and may vary. Some may be mindless servants that can't act without orders from their creator, others may be freely willed beings. This answer goes for question 9 as well.

7. Absolutely; there's no way this game of all things will have hardcoded automaton models, especially in an update that aims to procedurally generate entire races. I guarantee that automatons will be treated in the code much like normal creatures are, but with relevant differences like different materials for their body parts, and different sustenance requirements etc (in many ways, a Bronze Colossus could be considered an "automaton" already, just uncontrollable and impossible to create).

8. Will vary from world to world without a doubt. Some will require absolutely nothing, some will require sacrifices of the best crops to the god of metal every full moon, others will be fueled by flesh & blood and will seek it out on their own accord, others will require the concentration/mana of their creator... And of course, some may need food.

10. Almost certainly, in some worlds. I expect there will be many of ways to achieve immortality, and many of them revolving around putting one's soul into something that doesn't age. Note that not all worlds may even have a such thing as souls at all (eg, the "zero magic" worlds).
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