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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 2893692 times)

Eric Blank

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5160 on: January 08, 2023, 05:28:54 pm »

Right now zooming in/out or scaling the UI in the premium version results in textures being blurry and it's especially visible on higher resolutions.
Do you plan to add nearest neighbor scaling in the future?


You'll want to color your questions in some shade of green so Toady knows to address them.

No idea what he's planning myself.
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BlackSmokeDMax

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5161 on: January 08, 2023, 08:57:53 pm »

Quote from: Shonai_Dweller
Setting tombs in the new interface seems actually harder than previously (making a 1x1 zone on every coffin) unless you enclose every coffin in its own room and use the multi command.

Is that something that needs more development (to have multi recognise lots of unenclosed coffins as separate burial places) or is your vision of dwarven burial to have each coffin in its own room (and therefore system is working as intended).

(Also because the tombs are zones, when you designate a memorial hall over the graveyard it says it's "overlapping" which I think reduces the value, right? Guess that's not a big deal but I do like to avoid overlapping zones...)

Miuramir: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8437555#msg8437555

We wanted to add some kind of catacomb zone to cover this, and didn't get there.  It came up quite a bit in pre-launch testing.  I don't think I can easily make multi recognize semi-enclosed spaces well, although I'm assuming there's various existing work on that.

As a side note, overlapping is a huge penalty now, so we're going to want to fix the spots where it feels improper.

Thanks for the answers Toady.
If overlapping has a penalty, why is multi selecting the walls by default? Most players I believe won't have double-wide walls, especially for bedrooms.

Overlapping doesn't count walls


Saw a post somewhere, don't remember if it was Reddit, discord, or here. Anyway, the post seemed to indicate that engraving only has value in the direction towards the spot in which the dwarf who did the engraving was standing. So while there is no penalty for overlapping, I guess for min/maxing, it would seem double walling would be preferred to get full effect. Or maybe I read/inferred that wrong and both rooms get full wealth value, but the engraving can only be appreciated from the same side as where it was engraved from??
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Bumber

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5162 on: January 09, 2023, 04:21:27 am »

Saw a post somewhere, don't remember if it was Reddit, discord, or here. Anyway, the post seemed to indicate that engraving only has value in the direction towards the spot in which the dwarf who did the engraving was standing. So while there is no penalty for overlapping, I guess for min/maxing, it would seem double walling would be preferred to get full effect. Or maybe I read/inferred that wrong and both rooms get full wealth value, but the engraving can only be appreciated from the same side as where it was engraved from??

Engraving with walls is slightly complex. in order for an engraved wall to add its engraving to the room value, the room must contain, both the wall itself, and also the location the engraver was standing when it was engraved, this gives wall engravings a sort of directionality leading to people double walling so engravings can face into a room from both sides.

That's correct. Multi selecting the walls by default is still the optimal choice either way, since no room gets the value if you don't have walls selected, there's no penalty for overlap, and it's impossible to tell after the fact which way the engraving is facing.

This does add a weird caveat that you might want to give one of the rooms part of the hallway in case the wall was engraved from there. If your hallway is 1 tile wide, you'll also want the wall across the way (and any wall adjacent to that, in case of diagonal engraving,) because the opposing room could've been engraved from outside. That way you know that room will get the value of any hallway-facing engravings instead of wasting it, and you've probably engraved the hallway floor anyway. Min/maxing!

Or you could just give up on engraving rooms and use the exploit:
So you don't care about using glitches and Non-contiguous rooms. heres the way you break room value with minimal effort and resources.

1. Make a line of wall with 1 tile gap either side (if your engravers are really good this might only need to be 2-3 long)
2. Make the lines of floor either side of this wall out of the most valuable material you can (aluminum or platinum are great, steel and gold also work), and have your best engraver engrave them
3. Place doors on top of all those engraved tiles, what sort doesn't really matter, as they will be adding 10-100 value to 2-3k value floor tiles
4. For every room add the doors and the wall(this is a convenient rectangle). the wall makes the doors shareable, and the doors make the engraved floor shareable.
5. For optimal results hide this to the south east of your area, otherwise the zone icons can get rather confused
« Last Edit: January 09, 2023, 04:54:41 am by Bumber »
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Putnam

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5163 on: January 09, 2023, 09:35:10 pm »

Right now zooming in/out or scaling the UI in the premium version results in textures being blurry and it's especially visible on higher resolutions.
Do you plan to add nearest neighbor scaling in the future?


Yeah, I'm doing that. Different scale modes are part of the plans for the SDL2 update I'm doing.

ANickel

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5164 on: January 09, 2023, 10:36:00 pm »

Right now zooming in/out or scaling the UI in the premium version results in textures being blurry and it's especially visible on higher resolutions.
Do you plan to add nearest neighbor scaling in the future?


Yeah, I'm doing that. Different scale modes are part of the plans for the SDL2 update I'm doing.
Glad to hear this is being worked on, it's quite unpleasant on a sufficiently high-resolution screen.
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Kapten

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5165 on: January 10, 2023, 03:42:06 am »

Hi there buddies!

I'm a developer by heart and profession, also I'm on the hunt for a hobby project.
I was thinking on doing somthing with Legends.

So my question is, in what way will we be able to interact with Legends data in the future?

Using dfhack in old versions you can run a exportlegends command and get an (huge) xml-file.
Will/is something similar possible in the steam release? 

Currently playing on 47.05 since I have a mac computer.
Looking forward to do stupid dwarf tricks in high resolution!

Thank you for what you do !
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5166 on: January 10, 2023, 04:36:43 am »

@Kapten:
The native Legend XML export functionality will be restored according to Toady. Presumably it was something that had to be dropped in order to do the release in time, as it's something that isn't strictly essential.

DFHack is a community project outside of DF itself, so the additional export DFHack does on top of the native support is not something that Toady is responsible for (apart from the fact that he's not opposed to the DFHack project). Obviously, it is within Toady's power to add additional data to the native XML export (reducing the need for DFHack to export it), but that would obviously be a low priority side activity.

Moving further away from DF itself, usage of DF and DFHack XML exports has thus far been taken care of by Legends Viewer as well as various browser based versions, so you might find that niche to be somewhat crowded: cooperation with current maintainers (if they want/need cooperation) or looking for some other tools might be a better option, in which case the DFHack sphere would be a good place to start.
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Vanzetti

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5167 on: January 10, 2023, 11:27:30 am »

Remains of ancient civilizations are a common fantasy trope. Are there any plans to implement it in DF? Technically, this could be as easy as generating a random civ, and having all of its members die mysteriously before year 1, leaving behind only ruins. It would be something conceptually similar to how vaults work currently, but with a different flavor. Of course, the key here is to have the ruins be interesting enough to visit.
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Silverwing235

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5168 on: January 10, 2023, 12:49:21 pm »

I trust the bumping up (or down as it may be) of all entity-having creatures' (dwarves, elves, humans at least) CHILD tags to 18 is just temporary? Entirely too heavy post-industrial legislation vibes over here as it is, you see. 

Not sure whether the issue of ice melting into some sort of weird, item-like contaminant is at all intended, either:
Quote from: Dwarf Fortress Wiki: Ice
When an ice boulder melts underground, it becomes an item named "water" that differs from regular water in such fashion: it has no liquid level, does not leave mud when it evaporates, is cyan rather than blue, and dwarves eventually remove it with a "clean" job.Melted ice boulders cannot be used as a water source.
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Eric Blank

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5169 on: January 10, 2023, 02:19:51 pm »

The child ages was probably done to appease modern ideas about adulthood, to make the game "acceptable" for sale across the world and avoid insinuations of "promoting pedophilia/child labor/child soldiers" for allowing these things at ages appropriate for the setting/time period but inappropriate for modern ideas. So they're probably never going to be reset to the old 12 years of age at adulthood. A lot of people have suggested implementing a teenager/adolescent age group above 13, where they start taking on apprenticeships/jobs at their leisure and developing relationships with other teenagers. Maybe that's a possibility.

The ice issue is a bug, basically. Water in its various forms don't all point back to flowing water, but often to water as an item glob.
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I make Spellcrafts!
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5170 on: January 10, 2023, 06:02:28 pm »

The child ages was probably done to appease modern ideas about adulthood, to make the game "acceptable" for sale across the world and avoid insinuations of "promoting pedophilia/child labor/child soldiers" for allowing these things at ages appropriate for the setting/time period but inappropriate for modern ideas. So they're probably never going to be reset to the old 12 years of age at adulthood. A lot of people have suggested implementing a teenager/adolescent age group above 13, where they start taking on apprenticeships/jobs at their leisure and developing relationships with other teenagers. Maybe that's a possibility.

The ice issue is a bug, basically. Water in its various forms don't all point back to flowing water, but often to water as an item glob.
As opposed to promoting "use of baby as a shield/deadly weapon", all very arbitrary. Ha ha...
Well, one for the society arc I guess.
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Eric Blank

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5171 on: January 10, 2023, 06:30:22 pm »

Yeah but thats a result of a bug/unintended feature, not an intentional choice
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I make Spellcrafts!
I have no idea where anything is. I have no idea what anything does. This is not merely a madhouse designed by a madman, but a madhouse designed by many madmen, each with an intense hatred for the previous madman's unique flavour of madness.

BlueManedHawk

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5172 on: January 11, 2023, 01:20:23 am »

The child ages was probably done to appease modern ideas about adulthood, to make the game "acceptable" for sale across the world<…>

Ah, so it's mainly capitalism that's to blame for unrealism.
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OddballJoe

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5173 on: January 11, 2023, 01:42:48 am »

Is there any intention to bring the architecture skill/labor back? Since it's been removed, from what I can tell the requirements for buildings that needed it before are now just carpentry for wood, masonry for stone, and any metalsmith labor (besides furnace operation) for metal.

For what it's worth, I'm fine with this being cut in the interest of streamlining things.
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5174 on: January 11, 2023, 04:50:59 am »

Is there any intention to bring the architecture skill/labor back? Since it's been removed, from what I can tell the requirements for buildings that needed it before are now just carpentry for wood, masonry for stone, and any metalsmith labor (besides furnace operation) for metal.

For what it's worth, I'm fine with this being cut in the interest of streamlining things.

As far as i know, its there, but its not a skill but a labor buried very deep beneath the custom labor groupings that wouldn't be worth scooping out anymore due to the limited group slots.
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