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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 2713837 times)

Eric Blank

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5460 on: June 13, 2023, 03:01:52 pm »

What is the timeline for fixing the [CONDITION_NOT_DYED] and [CONDITION_DYED:COLOR] tags?
I really want to make a mod which adds new dyes and accurately displays clothing colors instead of having profession colors. It would be cool if there was tags to detect if a body part is missing, or if a weapon is in multigrasp, or if a particular item is hauled instead of only a tag for number of items hauled. Currently I think artifact weapons and armor don't display on your dwarves in vanilla. I fixed this in my mod by removing the the [CONDITION_CRAFTED_ARTIFACT] tag and layer grouping some stuff. Unfortunately the game doesn't properly detect the material of a crafted artifact so it can only display a generic artifact instead of a specific one of a particular material. Last I checked the creatures_graphics layered file also looks for black bronze equipment instead of bismuth bronze. That would be an easy graphics fix since it only requires the replace command.


Youll want to color your questions in green so Tarn knows theyre directed at him.
The timeline is probably pretty short term actually. I'd be willing to bet it'll come up soon so adventure mode can display the colors of equipment people are wearing, as in that mode the player is paying more direct attention to individuals, and turn off profession colors to see what the world looks like without them.
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I make Spellcrafts!
I have no idea where anything is. I have no idea what anything does. This is not merely a madhouse designed by a madman, but a madhouse designed by many madmen, each with an intense hatred for the previous madman's unique flavour of madness.

ShiraKage

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5461 on: June 16, 2023, 12:01:37 pm »

This is my first time writing here so please warn me If I do something wrong, thank you.

1- About myth&magic update, myth generator will create random people and creatures but how will you make their designs in game if they are completely random? I remember I saw something like ''lizard with exposed brain'' this could be easy since we have lizard design but how will you do every random creatures' design?

2- I don't know if random quests are possible but If it's not, will we see more complicated (or detailed) quests in adventure mode near future? Like maybe this example not that complicated but, you see a poor village and ask what happened, they say bandits often raid here but they don't know where they come so ask you if you spend some time here wait for bandits and offer you a house (you can reject and pay for it) and you wait some time and realize they don't come here so ask villagers about their predictions where bandits are etc.

3- Will our adventurer and others do their jobs (miner, farmer), earn money etc. before big wait?

4-I remember I saw one of the aims of new steam version adventure mode was adding new things for our adventurer and making the mode more enjoyable. So, will we see villain update too with adventure mode release or will we wait a bit longer for it?
« Last Edit: June 16, 2023, 12:04:52 pm by ShiraKage »
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5462 on: June 17, 2023, 01:26:43 am »

This is my first time writing here so please warn me If I do something wrong, thank you.

1- About myth&magic update, myth generator will create random people and creatures but how will you make their designs in game if they are completely random? I remember I saw something like ''lizard with exposed brain'' this could be easy since we have lizard design but how will you do every random creatures' design?
:

1. It's not random, but procedurally generated. This means there will be a framework that specifies the things that can be generated for each parameter and logic tied to that to produce the resulting abilities and properties when these elements are combined. It's definitely not trivial, but it's something that's been used by DF as a fundamental element throughout the development, so it's something Toady is very familiar with.
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A_Curious_Cat

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5463 on: June 20, 2023, 02:51:17 am »

Is the rate at which items in a refuse stockpile decay related to the itemís size?  I.e. do larger items take longer to decay?

Edit:  Forgot to make it lime green 😳
« Last Edit: June 20, 2023, 02:54:29 am by A_Curious_Cat »
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ror6ax

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5464 on: June 21, 2023, 08:13:31 am »

1. Have you considered consulting UX professional at any point? Caves of Qud has their entire UI re-conceptualised by an artist and they are implementing that step by step. Adventurer, being very interface-heavy, could benefit from this probably?

2. What are the plans ahead art-wise? Some animations perhaps?

3. Most games have audial feedback on UI interaction(think click sound on buttons). Would it be realistic to implement that in DF?

4. Have you ever played Gnomoria/Ingnomia?
« Last Edit: June 22, 2023, 06:21:32 am by ror6ax »
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A_Curious_Cat

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5465 on: June 21, 2023, 03:36:49 pm »

1. Have you considered consulting UX professional at any point? Caves of Qud has their entire UI re-conceptualised by an artist and they are implementing that step by step. Adventurer, being very interface-heavy, could benefit from this probably?

2. What are the plans ahead art-wise? Some animations perhaps?

3. Most games have audial feedback on UI interaction(think click sound on buttons). Would it be realistic to implement that in DF?

4. Have you ever played Gnomoria/Ingnomia?


You need to make your questions lime green so Toady can see them.
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ror6ax

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5466 on: June 22, 2023, 06:22:04 am »

1. Have you considered consulting UX professional at any point? Caves of Qud has their entire UI re-conceptualised by an artist and they are implementing that step by step. Adventurer, being very interface-heavy, could benefit from this probably?

2. What are the plans ahead art-wise? Some animations perhaps?

3. Most games have audial feedback on UI interaction(think click sound on buttons). Would it be realistic to implement that in DF?

4. Have you ever played Gnomoria/Ingnomia?


You need to make your questions lime green so Toady can see them.

Ah shit, I forgot to click the colour thingy. Thanks.
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oninoshiko

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5467 on: June 22, 2023, 10:35:12 pm »

With the multi-threaded improvements to the line-of-sight code going live, is there any plans to look into threading other parts of the code? Pathing relationship checks during watching performances and stone temp come to mind for me.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2023, 10:26:46 am by oninoshiko »
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voliol

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5468 on: June 23, 2023, 09:46:09 am »

1. As I recall from the myth demos, deities and primordial forces are given spheres by looking at what objects with obvious spheres (like the sky, elemental planes, certain creatures, divine law, etc.) they created during mythgen. So if a deity created the ocean, they might become associated with OCEAN or maybe WATER. However, some spheres would seem required for a more cohesive myth narrative. Like the TRICKERY of a trickster god, or a deity of LAW not running around wrecking things. Especially if mythgen doesn't cease completely at the point where historygen starts (or the player is able to enter the world), but continues to run in parallel to history (albeit slow). At what point would these sphere-connections be put into place? At the end of (normal?) mythgen where historygen starts? When something with an obvious sphere connection is created?

2. Many cultures have considered mundane animals to have magical properties, such as scarabs or black cats. Can we expect any of this with mythgen, or will it rather be the separate fantastic beasts, like the unicorn, who are granted powers?

3. Any thoughs on sacred animals/plants and mythgen?

Criperum

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5469 on: June 23, 2023, 12:58:43 pm »

As multithreading appeared to be quite possible and implementable instead of being "too hard", may be another long wanted feature is also not so impossible? I mean multiplayer. There are a lot of turn based games with simultaneous MP like Crusader Kings or Rimworld which is basically DF for casuals, it has a mod that adds pretty decent multiplayer experience without issues.
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lethosor

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5470 on: June 23, 2023, 02:28:30 pm »

As multithreading appeared to be quite possible and implementable instead of being "too hard", may be another long wanted feature is also not so impossible? I mean multiplayer. There are a lot of turn based games with simultaneous MP like Crusader Kings or Rimworld which is basically DF for casuals, it has a mod that adds pretty decent multiplayer experience without issues.
Multithreading isn't a one-and-done feature - there is a large spectrum between "not multithreaded" and "completely multithreaded". Putnam identified a few things that were performance-intensive while also being independent enough that they could be multithreaded without a huge undertaking or rewrite, then implemented multithreading for some of them. The vast majority of features in the game are still not multithreaded, and I would guess they will probably stay that way, although there would probably continue to be some research into what makes sense to multithread. In other words, a number of DF's features still are "too hard" to multithread to justify the effort.

I won't speculate on whether multiplayer is a priority, but the key difference is that supporting multiplayer for 2-5% of the game's features is substantially less useful than implementing multithreading for 2-5% of the game's features. Most people would expect the entire game to be multiplayer-friendly, which would require a lot more re-work.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2023, 08:06:24 pm by lethosor »
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DFHack - Dwarf Manipulator (Lua) - DF Wiki talk

There was a typo in the siegers' campfire code. When the fires went out, so did the game.

Silverwing235

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5471 on: June 23, 2023, 02:31:42 pm »

Rimworld which is basically DF for casuals, it has a mod that adds pretty decent multiplayer experience without issues.
This, you mean? (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2606448745)  Edit: (Yes, apparently so, in case Tarn's interest was piqued, due to Criperum's overcite (*ba dum tss*) in the first place.)
« Last Edit: June 27, 2023, 05:58:08 am by Silverwing235 »
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5472 on: June 23, 2023, 04:31:32 pm »

Multi threading as a magic bullet has been raised and discussed many times. Firstly, it assumes the performance is constrained by the available CPU, rather than memory bandwidth, and secondly it assumes that the logic is independent so that the things run in parallel are not dependent on each other (path finding/motion collision is an example where you need to have a defined order, or at least logic, to avoid things passing through each other or ending up at the same location without potentially performing a collision check because nothing was there when you calculated it for both parties), and thirdly that the overhead of managing multiple threads is less than the gain of performing calculations in parallel. You can look at any bureaucrazy to see that additional management to control things in detail may well cause things to run slower with less resilience and at a higher cost to realize there are risks involved...

At least in the past, measurements have indicated DF is mainly memory bandwidth constrained, not CPU constrained. That doesn't mean there aren't potential improvements, but it may well be that restructuring the code such that calculations made on one set of data in memory before going on to load a new set of data and continue the partial calculations on that might be a better approach for some parts of the code. I'm not saying that's the case, only that it's a possibility.
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lethosor

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5473 on: June 23, 2023, 11:01:20 pm »

With the multi-threaded improvements to the line-of-sight code going live, is there any plans to look into threading other parts of the code? Pathing and stone temp come to mind for me.
Putnam has actually published some findings from profiling the game - this thread goes into some detail about how pathfinding isn't a major contributor to speedups. So even if it is relatively easier to multithread than other parts of the game, the payoff would be pretty minimal.
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DFHack - Dwarf Manipulator (Lua) - DF Wiki talk

There was a typo in the siegers' campfire code. When the fires went out, so did the game.

stoyang

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5474 on: June 24, 2023, 12:59:08 am »

Given that we are about to switch to sdl2 and at the same time sdl2 is going into maintenance mode, are there any wishlist items that you want to see from sdl3? And on the same line of questions, can we move to sdl3 more quickly once it is released?
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