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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 3023813 times)

ryno

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5925 on: June 21, 2024, 09:58:56 am »

i have questions about the cavern dwellers!

1) there seems to be an odd dissonance between the type of creature that some cavern dwellers are versus the rest of the animal people, for example there are rat men and simultaneously "rodent men" in the caves that are not supposed to be rat men per se. And there are "amphibian men", "serpent men", or "reptile men" again its this nonspecific thing amongst dozens of specific equivalents. but then theres bat men instead of "flying mammal man" and ant men instead of "insect man" haha, so im curious, why are cavern dwellers like this?

2) also, rodent people portraits are drawn with fake clothing instead of real clothing like on dwarves, does this imply anything negative about the prospect of them getting to have equipment graphics? and on that note, what is to be made about the fake clothing on animal peoples unit sprites in general, considering their portraits are drawn naked?

3) on the topic of graphical parity in general i would also like to ask: biomes are far more visually distinct on the world map than on the actual playing field, has the team ever considered the logistics of a minecraft-esque localized grass-color or something like that? im also interested still in what the state of palletized stone/soil floors is!


apologizes for all the questions, and thank you so much for such an amazing game!
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Eric Blank

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5926 on: June 21, 2024, 12:30:39 pm »

The cavern people are a holdover from before there were people versions of every species, when they were almost the only ones. Same way we don't have any domestic animal people.



Sometimes I think about deleting the species specific animal people and making "generic" ones that include all the species in a particular clade with caste variations by species, but the tree of life is big and confusing and it's entirely subjective which species should get lumped together at what fidelity. Should all insect people be lumped together? If you don't then you've got only a handful that are even in the same family, I'm not sure any are in the same genus, so there'd be just as many separate species. Same deal with birds. Way too many birds... some of them would cover an entire order while some cover barely more than, for instance, the genus panthera.
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I make Spellcrafts!
I have no idea where anything is. I have no idea what anything does. This is not merely a madhouse designed by a madman, but a madhouse designed by many madmen, each with an intense hatred for the previous madman's unique flavour of madness.

Beag

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5927 on: June 24, 2024, 07:29:42 pm »

1. Since crafting and butchering is soon returning will crafting remain how it was in the old version where adventurers could only make bone jewelry and trinkets etc.? It would be nice and fairly realistic to be able to whittle branches into wooden figurines and make low quality arrows and crossbow bolts from them.
2. Will being a demigod/being a member of a religious origination/just currying favor with a deity unlock magic powers our adventurer's can use similar to sentient undead magic powers? Overuse of them could get the adventurer cursed to balance things.
3. Will preaching about a deity increase an adventurer's favor with them?
4. Will religions ever get doctrines such as values favored by that religion(as opposed to culture favored values)?
5. Will we eventually be able to sleep in castles/fort/monasteries that aren't hostile to us? Would allow better RP or a soldier/priest character.
6. Structurally how different are religious organizations to the type of factions joinable by the player? Would it be a challenge to be able to ask to join them like we can with other factions? Notably currently we can start of as part of these religious factions already when selecting our religion.
7. Will we eventually be able to see the weather again? Knowing the phase of the moon is very useful for guestimating when were beast time is without looking at the wiki.
8. Something that would be nice for bard characters is to mark which instrument skills are used by music in a culture when selecting skills so you don't create a string instrument bard for a culture that has no string instruments. Could this be a minor improvement that could be added in the future?
« Last Edit: June 25, 2024, 12:51:29 pm by Beag »
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aSpatula66

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5928 on: June 24, 2024, 07:53:38 pm »



On the topic of graphical parity in general i would also like to ask: biomes are far more visually distinct on the world map than on the actual playing field, has the team ever considered the logistics of a minecraft-esque localized grass-color or something like that? im also interested still in what the state of palletized stone/soil floors is!



I think adding separate graphics for dry grass, dead grass, and bamboo as there is in ascii could definitely help improve graphical distinction between biomes.

Also on the topic of graphical parity and cavern dwellers, serpent men have white scales yet their sprites depict them with green scales.

Also why are rodent, serpent, reptile, and amphibian men described as evil in their descriptions? They don't even have the [EVIL] tag.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2024, 02:29:49 pm by aSpatula66 »
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Eric Blank

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5929 on: June 24, 2024, 10:22:50 pm »

Tbh I think the artists just draw what comes to mind or what they think will look best, they might not be referring to the raws in a lot of these cases of disconnects between the two. Drawing sprites is hard, turns out.

Also, the cavern animal people could very well have been explicitly [evil] in the past and the descriptions never got updated.
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I make Spellcrafts!
I have no idea where anything is. I have no idea what anything does. This is not merely a madhouse designed by a madman, but a madhouse designed by many madmen, each with an intense hatred for the previous madman's unique flavour of madness.

A_Curious_Cat

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5930 on: June 25, 2024, 12:42:43 am »

Tbh I think the artists just draw what comes to mind or what they think will look best, they might not be referring to the raws in a lot of these cases of disconnects between the two. Drawing sprites is hard, turns out.

Also, the cavern animal people could very well have been explicitly [evil] in the past and the descriptions never got updated.

Looking at the wiki, the “evil” descriptor was added with 0.31 when their names were changed.  I can find no evidence of their ever having the “[EVIL]” tag.
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A_Curious_Cat

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5931 on: June 25, 2024, 12:46:24 am »


<snip>

This is an example of an undesirable constant M&M effect. (Well, for anyone else other than me)[/color] 
Code: [Select]
[CONSTANT_EFFECT:SPAWN_ITEM:VERMIN:CREATURE_ID:CASTE:X:Y:ETC]
So a decanter of endless water, essentially, but instead of water, its spiders. Clearly memory does run out at some point.

edit: spiders

What about simulating infinite spiders by generating a large (but finite) amount and then “replacing” ones that are destroyed?
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Eric Blank

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5932 on: June 25, 2024, 02:06:23 am »

Tbh I think the artists just draw what comes to mind or what they think will look best, they might not be referring to the raws in a lot of these cases of disconnects between the two. Drawing sprites is hard, turns out.

Also, the cavern animal people could very well have been explicitly [evil] in the past and the descriptions never got updated.

Looking at the wiki, the “evil” descriptor was added with 0.31 when their names were changed.  I can find no evidence of their ever having the “[EVIL]” tag.

Well nuts to that then. I know they've always been a "villain" since the 2d fort days. Must not be the evil type.
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I make Spellcrafts!
I have no idea where anything is. I have no idea what anything does. This is not merely a madhouse designed by a madman, but a madhouse designed by many madmen, each with an intense hatred for the previous madman's unique flavour of madness.

aSpatula66

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5933 on: June 25, 2024, 02:08:16 pm »


Do divorces happen in fortress mode? I've never seen it happen.

Will visuals for rain be added to graphics mode at some point?


When is glass going to become raw-defined?

Why can't [NO_DEFAULT_JOB] be used for items other than tools?

Why is [STERILE] not usable as a creature token?

Why do animated corpses heal? Maybe there could be a syndrome-applied creature token that prevents healing?

Why are sponges capable of feeling emotions?

Why is hair [HARD]? As far as I know all this does is allow various tools such as jugs and large pots made from hair to be purchased when creating an adventurer and possibly also when embarking.

Similar question but for wood and [ITEMS_WEAPON]. As far as I can tell all this does is cause wooden kitchen knives to available when creating an adventurer.

Why are dwarves liked for their beards? Only half of them are bearded and the ones that are aren't any more bearded than other species that can grow beards.

Are more internal organs going to get actual functions in the future?

Why doesn't the material of a shield affect it's blockchance? Same thing with picks and mining speed.

Why is dragonfire hotter than the surface of the sun? Wouldn't that mean that everyone (and all the terrain) in a large radius should be vaporized instantly when a dragon breathes fire?

Why don't elven civilizations have [OUTDOOR_GARDENS]? They would probably be fine with picking leaves and fruits from plants.

Why aren't any creatures other than than dwarves affected by cave adaptation? It would probably make sense for goblins and kobolds to have it, as well as all cavern creatures that aren't immune to nausea.

Why are maneras the only creatures exclusive to layer two of the caverns?

Is it a bug that goblin civilians don't attack neutrals? Someone on discord said that it was. I don't think it would really make sense for them to attack neutrals though given they are unarmed and unskilled, though they should at probably acknowledge if someone is an intruder.

Apologies for all the questions, I hope moving to a new country goes well.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2024, 11:23:05 am by aSpatula66 »
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ryno

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5934 on: June 27, 2024, 09:12:56 pm »

serpent men have white scales yet their sprites depict them with green scales.

its unfortunate that its incorrect, but its the particularly radioactive brightness of the green on those people that i would take issue with first, and having the portraits drawn to match makes it feel like its a decision that is now committed to

on the topic of color i would like to attach a few color-related questions to this post

1) birch trees are known to be white and are described ingame as having silver bark, but the trees and all of their byproducts are in fact a dark brown color- what explains this, is it intended, and should we expect it to change?

2) redroot dye turns palletized clothing items into a brown color that is identical to leather IIRC, is this by design, can we expect a red dye, and with the game now being visualized does this as well open the door to a wider spectrum of new dyes?

3) loam is grayscale in the premium version and looks like an error, when i first started playing the game it was disorienting and resembled stone, the raws indicate it is "silver", why is this the case instead of some kind of earth tone? similarly, peat walls are a vibrant red color, but shouldnt it be some kind of high-carbon dark-brown?

4) cobaltite was once prized for its blue color, but changed to black in the premium version, was this a conscious decision that was perhaps based on realism, or might we expect the blue stone to return?
« Last Edit: June 28, 2024, 08:43:38 am by ryno »
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voliol

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5935 on: June 28, 2024, 02:02:00 am »

There's a few other graphical/description/body parts issues, like the snail men (not) having legs. If the graphics aren't changing it would be nice if the description/body parts were updated to be in line. Though really it doesn't matter too much, these discrepancies are just a little unpleasant.

aSpatula66

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5936 on: June 28, 2024, 10:21:36 am »

So redroot dye dyeing things brown is definitely unintentional since it has a dye color of red, things dyed with it are described as red, and in adventure mode it shows up as red on the small scale creature sprites.
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Crystalizedmire

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5937 on: June 28, 2024, 12:11:50 pm »

Will non-necromancer wizards make experiments as well?
Do Demigod/chosen ones adventurers have to believe in their god or not?
If so, is the god chosen from the beliefs list in the character creation screen?(I'm asking this question because animal people and experiments can't choose any belief)
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A_Curious_Cat

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5938 on: June 28, 2024, 12:18:30 pm »

Will non-necromancer wizards make experiments as well?
Do Demigod/chosen ones adventurers have to believe in their god or not?
If so, is the god chosen from the beliefs list in the character creation screen?(I'm asking this question because animal people and experiments can't choose any belief)


You can talk to them and they answer back.  And you still don’t believe in them…
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DPh Kraken

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5939 on: June 28, 2024, 12:29:43 pm »

Do Demigod/chosen ones adventurers have to believe in their god or not?
From Rumrusher's experiments with "ensouling" a god into a unit body, any sort of relation-building with a god becomes classified as "worship", rather than "friendship." A godly tavern keeper would gather many followers. So the more you beseech your god for guidance, the stronger the devotion would be even if you start at dubious.
As a fun bit of trivia, gods are hardcoded to use the 'Ä' tile, shared with angels. I wager that we might be seeing this a bit often as their Classic portrait...
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