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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 410307 times)

Dwarfu

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #450 on: June 16, 2018, 10:58:40 am »

Will being able to ask residents to leave the fortress include vampires and were-creatures in human form?

Also, is this some kind of legal mandate (such as banishment) or is it just a "get out" kind of thing?
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ZM5

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #451 on: June 16, 2018, 11:18:26 am »

Do you plan on fixing dwarves ability to form relationships this cycle, or do you think you'll end up replacing it with something more complex further down the line? I've noticed it still kinda seems like even with fort citizens socializing a lot, you very rarely get marriages, grudges and the like.

PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #452 on: June 16, 2018, 11:30:37 am »

With the new myths system will we see religious wars between civs, heresy and inquisition? Religious conflicts inside our fortresses. Official fortress religion and possible attack from our capital government in case if our point of view is different to theirs.
I wouldn't expect the first arc to cover this, but "merely" prepare some of the ground for it. These things are civ level interactions that seem to be more in line with e.g. starting scenarios as well as further civ level development (politics?). The first Myth & Magic arc isn't exactly waiting for contents to fill it out...
Given that we currently have civ panthea, they'll have to be replaced, but I wouldn't expect more than that in that arc.
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Ggobs

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #453 on: June 16, 2018, 02:45:11 pm »

In the Development tab there's a line "better necromancer towers'
I was curious what do you have planned for them?
thx
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Inarius

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #454 on: June 16, 2018, 04:52:53 pm »

If I remember correctly, it's more to make a more generic, and procedural type of "necromancer towers". Necromancer towers would just be a type of tower within a more general system where wizards can build their own magic tower, and practice there sphere (here, necromancy) of magic.
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Criperum

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #455 on: June 16, 2018, 05:25:41 pm »

...
I wouldn't expect the first arc to cover this, but "merely" prepare some of the ground for it. These things are civ level interactions that seem to be more in line with e.g. starting scenarios as well as further civ level development (politics?). The first Myth & Magic arc isn't exactly waiting for contents to fill it out...
Given that we currently have civ panthea, they'll have to be replaced, but I wouldn't expect more than that in that arc.

But what about religious conflicts between dwarves inside player fortresses?
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Killermartian

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #456 on: June 16, 2018, 08:54:44 pm »

Quote from: Devlog
    Combat styles
       
    • Ability to create new moves/styles when highly skilled
Do you have any plans as to how you will accomplish this?
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Admiral Obvious

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #457 on: June 16, 2018, 09:13:17 pm »

Quote from: Devlog
    Combat styles
       
    • Ability to create new moves/styles when highly skilled
Do you have any plans as to how you will accomplish this?

UristMcBiteMaster has mastered biting! He created a new wrestling move! Joint Bite is now useable!

Why break the joint when you can bite hard enough to tear it off?[/list]
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iceball3

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #458 on: June 16, 2018, 10:06:28 pm »

Quote from: Devlog
Combat styles
   
  • Ability to create new moves/styles when highly skilled

Do you have any plans as to how you will accomplish this?
In particular, do you suppose the combat styles noted are a series of actions like how the current version largely supports Kisat Dur as a combat style, or will these be more particular actions?
Do you anticipate further development in this direction to come before or after the next pass of fatigue/pain/organ injury reworks? Just asking as making certain injuries more or less significant can have an affect on what constitute a good combat maneuver (as punching people's livers right now does not do anything presently, for example).

PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #459 on: June 17, 2018, 02:37:10 am »

...
I wouldn't expect the first arc to cover this, but "merely" prepare some of the ground for it. These things are civ level interactions that seem to be more in line with e.g. starting scenarios as well as further civ level development (politics?). The first Myth & Magic arc isn't exactly waiting for contents to fill it out...
Given that we currently have civ panthea, they'll have to be replaced, but I wouldn't expect more than that in that arc.

But what about religious conflicts between dwarves inside player fortresses?
Apart from personal exchanges along the lines of arguing over values I don't see room for addition of religious conflict infrastructure in the first arc. It's something that would fit better in with other internal fortress structures, such as guilds. I'd expect movements dedicated to deities to basically be introduced in the first arc, but them engaging in warfare/conflict against each other in any organized form to be introduced at all levels in a later arc.
Again, the first Myth & Magic arc will focus on getting the pieces in and get them to sort of work at a basic level. Toady is expanding the house in all directions, and the focus is to get the load bearing parts done, with some basic walls and roof to keep the elements out. The wall paper, paintings, and furniture will have to wait until the weather has been kept outside.

The first Myth & Magic arc will break save compatibility, and since that is something Toady tries to avoid, I'd expect a heavy focus on save compatibility breaking changes to prepare the ground for many years of backwards compatible development.
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Mel_Vixen

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #460 on: June 19, 2018, 02:40:19 pm »

Question about messengers: When they are out on theyr mission and encounter hostiles (Armies, undead, titans, nighcreatures) will they report those? I imagine theyr coding will them make them walk by but on the returntrip (given that they are alive) will they tell you the news?
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Harpadarpa.

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #461 on: June 19, 2018, 04:12:02 pm »

The raws exist as a slider currently (setting stress vulnerability, for example), and I'm not sure what the myth sliders will end up looking like; does what the "violence level" slider become enter into this?  Possible.  For now, I'd just like to provide some non-broken texture and occasional problem dwarves, and heavy issues for those experimental forts where people intentionally mistreat their dwarves as a kind of baseline.  With the next release, we should be a bit closer, though there's a possibility that people might be too happy again if they process their emotions too fast...  it's hard to run sufficient long-enough tests from my position.  Seems okay so far.  I certainly don't expect that everyone will be satisfied, but the base stress vulnerability will always be moddable.
Since stress is already on a slider, and people seemingly aren't going to agree on how much stress a dwarf should be able to take, are you considering opening the slider for stress threshold to the players? Obviously the thought trains have to be fixed, but after that, it would be nice to get more direct control over how stressed your dwarves can get, according to your own personal preference.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #462 on: June 19, 2018, 04:59:10 pm »

The raws exist as a slider currently (setting stress vulnerability, for example), and I'm not sure what the myth sliders will end up looking like; does what the "violence level" slider become enter into this?  Possible.  For now, I'd just like to provide some non-broken texture and occasional problem dwarves, and heavy issues for those experimental forts where people intentionally mistreat their dwarves as a kind of baseline.  With the next release, we should be a bit closer, though there's a possibility that people might be too happy again if they process their emotions too fast...  it's hard to run sufficient long-enough tests from my position.  Seems okay so far.  I certainly don't expect that everyone will be satisfied, but the base stress vulnerability will always be moddable.
Since stress is already on a slider, and people seemingly aren't going to agree on how much stress a dwarf should be able to take, are you considering opening the slider for stress threshold to the players? Obviously the thought trains have to be fixed, but after that, it would be nice to get more direct control over how stressed your dwarves can get, according to your own personal preference.
Firstly, this is a suggestion rather than a question about the plans, so it fits better in the suggestion forum (which Toady reads, as far as I understand).
Secondly, Toady mentions that the raws exist as a slider: i.e. that you're free to adjust the raw contents to your liking, not that there's a single number you'd just adjust. Presumably, Toady's balancing aims at making what's in the raws in vanilla DF to meet the goals described. Since save game compatibility is a high priority, raw numbers are probably not going to be adjusted in the vanilla version without a very good reason, so the adjustments will be done internally.

You can make some kind of script to go through the raws to change them according to your principles (and if you think it's reasonably useful to others you can post it as a third party utility).

Question about messengers: When they are out on theyr mission and encounter hostiles (Armies, undead, titans, nighcreatures) will they report those? I imagine theyr coding will them make them walk by but on the returntrip (given that they are alive) will they tell you the news?

I suspect they won't encounter hostiles initially, but just magically pass through them, as messengers have the same issue as raiding parties, namely the need for coding logic for encounters. For messengers it would at least mean getting caught (and interrogated, or just tortured for fun...), killed, or passing unnoticed. It's less unbalanced to slip through as a ghost without issues than to slip through as an untouchable ghost that then reports back on what's seen.
When fleshed out I expect all sorts of trouble for messengers, as well as reports about the troubles managed (rumors or others would have to tell about the troubles that were not managed).
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #463 on: June 19, 2018, 05:01:04 pm »

This already exists through the dwarven 'Stress Vunerability trait' but i guess your question can be abstracted to 'universal levels of stress' and yet it would remain to be seen that planned features like the magic & state of horror lovecraftianism may have their own gravity of effect upon what you can call median or baseline stress shared by everyone.

Imagine magic on one world being entirely stress powered equalling the effort to generate the magic effect, dwarves being master wizards all round. Or a carefree happy existance where nobody dies by turning off sliders so creatures explode into balls of confetti and respawn at special shrines and domestic magic to do hauling/crafting and cleaning makes dwarves particularly happy and carefree while they hang out in taverns all day very slowly building social stats. (urgh)

Breifly inspired by:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: June 19, 2018, 05:04:37 pm by FantasticDorf »
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Harpadarpa.

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #464 on: June 19, 2018, 08:30:35 pm »

The raws exist as a slider currently (setting stress vulnerability, for example), and I'm not sure what the myth sliders will end up looking like; does what the "violence level" slider become enter into this?  Possible.  For now, I'd just like to provide some non-broken texture and occasional problem dwarves, and heavy issues for those experimental forts where people intentionally mistreat their dwarves as a kind of baseline.  With the next release, we should be a bit closer, though there's a possibility that people might be too happy again if they process their emotions too fast...  it's hard to run sufficient long-enough tests from my position.  Seems okay so far.  I certainly don't expect that everyone will be satisfied, but the base stress vulnerability will always be moddable.
Since stress is already on a slider, and people seemingly aren't going to agree on how much stress a dwarf should be able to take, are you considering opening the slider for stress threshold to the players? Obviously the thought trains have to be fixed, but after that, it would be nice to get more direct control over how stressed your dwarves can get, according to your own personal preference.
Firstly, this is a suggestion rather than a question about the plans, so it fits better in the suggestion forum (which Toady reads, as far as I understand).
Secondly, Toady mentions that the raws exist as a slider: i.e. that you're free to adjust the raw contents to your liking, not that there's a single number you'd just adjust. Presumably, Toady's balancing aims at making what's in the raws in vanilla DF to meet the goals described. Since save game compatibility is a high priority, raw numbers are probably not going to be adjusted in the vanilla version without a very good reason, so the adjustments will be done internally.

You can make some kind of script to go through the raws to change them according to your principles (and if you think it's reasonably useful to others you can post it as a third party utility).
Yeah, I was kinda worried about the distinction between suggestion and future of the fortress here. Sorry about that. Thanks for the information!
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