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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 503166 times)

PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #570 on: July 05, 2018, 11:31:17 am »

A lever pulled in the next post caused the contents of this post to disappear, while the poster managed to get away.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2018, 05:18:21 pm by PatrikLundell »
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #571 on: July 05, 2018, 12:30:48 pm »

*Pulls Lever* and both the above posters dissapear into the bottomless pit!

Keep it clean please, its a valid question of a contingency plan but im pretty sure Toady would not condone violence over the issue at all.


Will this villian arc centre on whichever 'villian' has the most interesting solution/improvement, or do you have a specific heirarchy/plan of which goals you want to follow up and improve upon from the proposed candidates?


(Edit for a new question to avoid double posting)

Will you continue to improve the messengers you introduced in this version onwards for this Arc? Or are they going to be temporarily postponed until villians get a little bit more attention?
« Last Edit: July 07, 2018, 07:39:47 pm by FantasticDorf »
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Onebadterran

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #572 on: July 07, 2018, 08:37:32 pm »

Is there a plan to implement pain tolerance building up over time so we can train armies that feel no pain (or don't care)?
« Last Edit: July 27, 2018, 09:03:18 pm by Onebadterran »
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #573 on: July 07, 2018, 09:10:48 pm »

Is there a plan to implement pain tolerance building up over time so we can train armies that feel no pain (or don't care)?
Limegreen text if that's a question. Or, more usefully, move to suggestions board if its a suggestion.
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Magistrum

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #574 on: July 07, 2018, 10:35:35 pm »

Is there a plan to implement pain tolerance building up over time so we can train armies that feel no pain (or don't care)?
I guess the current willpower attribute is pretty much that, it seems to govern how much pain is needed for you to pass out right now.
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Lumpy

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #575 on: July 08, 2018, 05:28:10 am »

1. Can we expect some improvements regarding hostilities in adventure mode to be part of the villain arc? Banditry, in particular. I've read various comments on this forum about how in a time before time, bandits were actually aggressive and attacked you when walking straight into their encampment. Currently, they tend to ignore you, unless they are on a specific mission to rob someone, in which case they might try to rob the player, but only after nonchalantly chatting about the weather and inquiring about why one is travelling. Any chance things will get a bit more dynamic in this regard before the long wait?

2. I noticed that if bandits actually try to rob you, they start a non-lethal conflict should you refuse to submit, which is a very nice touch! Is there any chance non-lethal victories over bandits or entities in general will be kept track of by the game and tied into the reputation system, eventually? I imagine something like being able to accuse someone of banditry, then beating them up to the point where they yield, and then being able to "summarize the conflict in which you subdued Stealy McBandit", resulting in a reputation gain without being considered a killer.

3. As you probably noticed by now, I am especially fond of the adventure mode part of the game. I am aware that this would probably fall into the economy arc and is not a priority, but is there any chance coins will become stackable before the long wait, and paying tavern keepers with currency will become an option? This is admittedly a minor issue, but I just have to ask, for I seemingly have a coin fetish going and tend to carry ridiculously large quantities of them with me.


« Last Edit: July 08, 2018, 06:03:27 am by Lumpy »
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KittyTac

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #576 on: July 08, 2018, 05:30:27 am »

If you kill a bandit, you are a killer, not a murderer. A killer is a neutral reputation, murderer is the bad one.
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Lumpy

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #577 on: July 08, 2018, 05:48:38 am »

If you kill a bandit, you are a killer, not a murderer. A killer is a neutral reputation, murderer is the bad one.

True, I edited that part. Nonetheless, it would be nice if the game tracked non-lethal victories over entities.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2018, 05:56:57 am by Lumpy »
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Death Dragon

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #578 on: July 08, 2018, 09:41:51 am »

1. Can we expect some improvements regarding hostilities in adventure mode to be part of the villain arc? Banditry, in particular. I've read various comments on this forum about how in a time before time, bandits were actually aggressive and attacked you when walking straight into their encampment. Currently, they tend to ignore you, unless they are on a specific mission to rob someone, in which case they might try to rob the player, but only after nonchalantly chatting about the weather and inquiring about why one is travelling. Any chance things will get a bit more dynamic in this regard before the long wait?
Well this almost sounds like a feature not a bug. It's probably true that they shouldn't let anyone just randomly walk through their encampment and yeah the villain update might change this, but it's important that we keep having the option of talking to them, so we can interact in another way with them or join them, and they don't just turn into mindless "enemies" like in every other computer RPG.
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Lumpy

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #579 on: July 08, 2018, 01:20:10 pm »

Well this almost sounds like a feature not a bug. It's probably true that they shouldn't let anyone just randomly walk through their encampment and yeah the villain update might change this, but it's important that we keep having the option of talking to them, so we can interact in another way with them or join them, and they don't just turn into mindless "enemies" like in every other computer RPG.

Oh, sure, absolutely. But walking right into their encampment as a stranger to them should evoke at least some kind of reaction. I was referring to the state of bandits in general. Their behavior feels kind of passive and sometimes erratic. Even when they try to rob you when encountering them outside of encampments, they demand your submission so many times before taking any action that most of the times, you can just walk away. Stuff like that.
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Eric Blank

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #580 on: July 08, 2018, 05:37:13 pm »

I recall asking this last time (maybe?  it gets confusing between fotf and email and everything else), and if somebody answered I missed it; is this still an issue?  I've had lovers and marriages among the starting 7 in my test forts in the last some versions, and there is more socializing now.  Is there a bug report with saves associated to a newer release?  I suppose I could check, but I'm working on FotF answers right now, heh.

I imagine relationships will get more complicated, as things tend to, but I don't have particular plans for them in the near-term.
Ive noticed that my dwarves dont form any sort of relationships often too. I think it has to do with the difference between "no job" idling versus "socializing." When the dwarves have "no job" they will form relationships with other idle dwarves they bump into. As in you dont have a tavern or library to entertain them. praying/meditating at a temple doesnt seem to take up too much of their time alone, but they spend days and days reading books or "socializing". During "socializing" or dancing/singing/reciting poetry or observing performances, they dont seem to actually be forming any sort of relationships, except in those brief moments where they have "no job". Its like they consider that tavern socializing function to be a job so refrain from the socializing part of socializing. But in a fort where theres little work and you have smallish meeting areas and no tavern or library/books, then when dwarves arent working they will idle with the "no job" task listed, and make friends with everybody.

I stuck a couple dorfs in a hole in the ground to quarantine them for possible werebeast infection, and with literally nothing to do they became friends in a couple months. Dwarves socializing in taverns often dont know one another's names, and ive actually seen thoughts stating "i saw a dwarf perform the satiny sweetnesses in the loaf of buttering, its very interesting" as in theyre referring to that person, another member of the fort for over a year, as a stranger, by species/caste name, not by personal name. Their relationship screen would then show theyve literally never met the guy. Sometimes theyre "socializing" right next to one-another, though.

So i think there is a bug, and it has something to do with the difference between socializing activities versus actual idling w/o a job. They definitely form relationships when idling, but dont seem to when socializing as an activity.

As a suggestion to test, i would split a forts population in three, with one group working all the time (too many labors for the # of dwarves to perform at any given time), one having no work to do and no locations to perform the new socializing activities, just a 11x11 or so meeting area, and a third having nothing but a fully stocked but small tavern. I would predict the tavern dwarves and working dwarves would form very few relationships, and the idling dwarves should form many. Of course theyd all have to have food, so maybe the working dwarves can be tossing food and drink onto stockpiles in the other dwarves' areas from above
« Last Edit: July 08, 2018, 05:43:23 pm by Eric Blank »
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #581 on: July 08, 2018, 06:57:23 pm »

On that note just to briefly add, activities don't span from idling activities but instead occupy a job; it will drop your idler count at the top even whilst they are doing nothing and violates the pre-existing chat code. All instances of performances are reported to keep dwarves from doing tasks around the fortress and disabling them wherever you can find them appears to fix a lot of issues by having compact and efficient zones rather than the 10x10 grand halls the dance systems demand.

Solving the socialisation issue is one thing but creating a non-hostile enviroment for the most sociable ever dwarves is much more difficult. Given how aggressively dwarves pursue their needs they're never sated of having to revisit the temple after a good worship session because they're flicking to the next priority need or hinging on the same one for long periods of time due to facets being uneven and never able to be filled & left alone for a little bit.

I've covered a few of these topics with #0010676
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scourge728

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #582 on: July 10, 2018, 06:46:25 pm »

Is the Golden Salve intended to be given some use during the magic stuff?

iceball3

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #583 on: July 10, 2018, 07:44:57 pm »

As you implement magical mechanics, how do you think you will do with mundane engineered equivalents? Will they come along later with the functional reworks to their overarching systems, done before, or as we go along?
For a couple of examples, based on what I've heard is going to come when mythgen has come to pass (That is to say: mythgen is something I've heard that is likely already planned to do what I'm listing, I'm just listing the mundane counterparts we don't have yet):
-Magic that immobilizes and moves the targets vs mundane restraints and dragging units, which would likely come with the justice rework.
-Magic that treats and cures ailments vs functional mundane apothecaries and knowledge-system implemented medicine.
-Magic that bends the mind vs functional coercion, interrogation and mechanical feedback on social situations from the character's social skills.

And so forth. I'm not suggesting these particular mechanics get implemented, just asking where they sit in relation to release priority their likely-magical-counterparts that'll come during the mythgen releases.

That aside though, thanks for the new update, Toady! It's been a world of fun keeping up with the dramatic new changes you're doing! That makes me think of one more question.
How does it feel now that the sphere of influence of the player's fortresses are now really starting to stick their fingers to the local world? I understand that the "bringing the world alive" updates were both more ambitious, and basically necessary before these new changes came to exist, but seeing those foundations come together in really cool player-usable mechanics must be pretty exciting, yeah?
My favorite part is how functional yet flavor-fully we can put unwanted or unnecessary dwarves and their families "out to pasture" without having to kill them, as well as being able to draw on a pool of local dwarves in the world more selectively. This extra allocation of resources will provide a good deal of player-strategic thinking potential, as well as increasing the potential stretch room for more difficult scenarios and gameplay. It does sort of pull on the "You have what you get" experience though, for folks trying to achieve that, but I imagine that when embark-scenarios are realized, that would be a problem solved rather neatly.

KittyTac

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #584 on: July 10, 2018, 09:25:17 pm »

Is the Golden Salve intended to be given some use during the magic stuff?
Probably depending on the world's settings.
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