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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 503195 times)

Hapchazzard

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #795 on: August 19, 2018, 06:31:40 am »

1. How will adapting the creation myth to different cultures work? It would be odd if goblins, elves and humans all had the exact same creation myth.

2. Will the myth generator be able to generate extremely advanced/magically potent 'precursor' races (I know, it's a sci-fi term, but I feel like it fits here too) and how would they be balanced? While it would be cool to have a race of basically omnipotent reality-bending lizards in the myth story, if they persisted in 'recorded history' (the playable time) in significant numbers it would probably be obscenely unbalanced and they'd be able to curbstomp everyone else.

3. If said races are planned, just how powerful would they be able to be? As much as literal deities (building pocket planes, creating new deities from scratch, etc.)?

4. I saw that in the current version of the myth generator, one can have mortals rise up in rebellion against deities, though they seem to always lose. Will it be possible to have a more generalized war system for the myth generator, enabling war in heaven style conflicts between deities, groups of deities, precursors, etc. where any of the combatants can get eliminated, transformed, etc.?
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thvaz

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #796 on: August 19, 2018, 07:47:07 am »

(Regarding 08/18 devlog) Will the role of families also be expanded both in wg and fortress mode? Family ties are stronger than friendship and are underdeveloped in the game.
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Lorn Asbord Schutta

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #797 on: August 19, 2018, 07:51:44 am »


1.You said in devlog that the succesful plotting, alongside beliefs and position of target, would be determined by "intrigue skill". Is it going to be seperate skill like mining or dodging, or it will be mix of social skills like liar or diplomat?
2. You mentioned that being a criminal mastermind would be a thing soon. If option of playing inquisitor/detective in adventure mode will be supported as well? Not necessarily in full possible spectrum, but being able to discover plots via just talking with people and having right set of skills/clues, or occasional quest to thwart some villain agenda would be a thing that at least I look forward.
3. In same spirit, if there would be fortress guests which will petion to stay in your fort to help you in discovering and preventing from villainous plots? Just like monster slayers come to help you hunt down critter in caverns.
4. Will be able to choose not only what equipment to take at the start of adventure, but what quality it would be? For instance, paying more points to have *iron longsword* instead of normal one?
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Death Dragon

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #798 on: August 19, 2018, 08:19:55 am »

1. How will adapting the creation myth to different cultures work? It would be odd if goblins, elves and humans all had the exact same creation myth.
In one of the old myth gen presentations Toady shows that different races might only believe in parts of a creation myth or have their own, different ones.
2. Will the myth generator be able to generate extremely advanced/magically potent 'precursor' races (I know, it's a sci-fi term, but I feel like it fits here too) and how would they be balanced? While it would be cool to have a race of basically omnipotent reality-bending lizards in the myth story, if they persisted in 'recorded history' (the playable time) in significant numbers it would probably be obscenely unbalanced and they'd be able to curbstomp everyone else.
The myth generator can definitely create random races with special magical abilities, but I don't know how much of "precursor" they can be. What do you mean specifically? A race that has built several cities before the other races even apear on the world or a race that is at part involved with the creation of another race? I think the second might be in the myth gen, but I dunno about the first.
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voliol

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #799 on: August 19, 2018, 09:48:50 am »

2. Will the myth generator be able to generate extremely advanced/magically potent 'precursor' races (I know, it's a sci-fi term, but I feel like it fits here too) and how would they be balanced? While it would be cool to have a race of basically omnipotent reality-bending lizards in the myth story, if they persisted in 'recorded history' (the playable time) in significant numbers it would probably be obscenely unbalanced and they'd be able to curbstomp everyone else.

3. If said races are planned, just how powerful would they be able to be? As much as literal deities (building pocket planes, creating new deities from scratch, etc.)?


Some answers back here (I think) there was a similar question, where Toady answered that as well as generalized versions of the races we already have, he wanted to have generalized fairies, ancient giants, precursor gods (like the titans in greek mythology) etc. accounted for in the myth gen, as they are all common tropes in real-life myths.

If you look at the myth-gen demos there are also the ancient original forces, and personified usually abstract things, like the sea and the sky, filling the same roles as precursor gods would, creating the deities and whatnot.

I'd guess they would normally be locked to myth-gen events/guaranteed to be slain, banished or sealed during it, distinguishing them from normal gods. It would surprise me if they weren't valid targets for the eventual magic summoning conspiracies though, so in some way on another they should still be able to interact with the would.

Rockphed

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #800 on: August 19, 2018, 12:12:14 pm »

I, for one, welcome our new Jilted Lover overlords.
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Only vaguely. Made of the same substance and put to the same use, but a bit like comparing a castle and a doublewide trailer.

Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #801 on: August 19, 2018, 04:17:56 pm »

Quote
1. How will adapting the creation myth to different cultures work? It would be odd if goblins, elves and humans all had the exact same creation myth.
The creation "myth" isn't actually a myth, it's the actual creation of the world. It's complex enough that each race/civ can focus on a different part of it (the bits relevant to their race and its creation, presumably).
So each race will have a different story of how they came to be, but it'll stem from interrelated events that actually happened at the dawn of time (presumably including some that none of the civilised races are aware of?).
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #802 on: August 19, 2018, 06:51:20 pm »

Will historical figures such as monarchs weigh their foriegn policy with other civilizations based on friendship with other civilisation members/leaders they might bond/break links with.

Here's to the idea that some primitive form of diplomacy might be achieved to circumvent a war by having your mayor, baron or monarch chat & become lasting good friends with a visiting human law-giver to incline them less to attack you.
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a52

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #803 on: August 19, 2018, 10:10:17 pm »

Now that memories and thoughts can change personalities, will eating a particularly good/bad meal ever change food preferences?
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Blaze_1711

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #804 on: August 20, 2018, 08:54:04 am »

Will we potentially see, in the myth and magic update, a race with magical capabilities summoning representants of an otherwordly race, and this otherwordly race possibly overthrowing their summoners/settling the world on their own?
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #805 on: August 20, 2018, 08:58:13 am »

Will we potentially see, in the myth and magic update, a race with magical capabilities summoning representants of an otherwordly race, and this otherwordly race possibly overthrowing their summoners/settling the world on their own?

^ lime green please.

Under 'myth and magic' on the development log, there are many notable stories published by the brothers (particularly penned by threetoe) regarding the release of malignant gods, as well as discussion/development goal points of sealing & releasing them. Not all of the stories turn out well for the summoners, i recommend you give a whirl of "The Wedding of Doom" to get the vibe and other threetoe stories to get a behind the scenes breakdown of the sort of things Toady & Threetoe discuss with each other.

A seperate story of warriors of the dead has a summoning wizard use their powers to their own end to manipulate the undead on another plane. Summoning from the afterlife as a example.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2018, 09:02:48 am by FantasticDorf »
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Miuramir

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #806 on: August 20, 2018, 07:40:14 pm »

1. How will adapting the creation myth to different cultures work? It would be odd if goblins, elves and humans all had the exact same creation myth.

That gets into complicated questions of what "myth" really is, and how they evolve over time.  I would imagine that there would be roughly the following categories:

A) No connection to reality or history, made up by some entity (deific, historical, or mundane) for some end

B) A more-or-less garbled over time version of what happened, but focusing on one sub-aspect that is particularly relevant to the culture or some powerful / influential entity.  (The stories of the mushroom people may gloss over anything that happens on or to the surface world, while spending pages on the Wafting of the First Spores.)

C) A more-or-less garbled over time version of what happened, but significantly twisted or re-interpreted by some culture or powerful / influential entity to further their ends.  (Consider the whole "Han shot first" controversy, as well as many real-world controversies over history I deliberately do not mention here.  Wars of the gods are unlikely to be *less* controversial than human ones...)

D) A more-or-less correct version of what happened.  In rare cases (e.g. a God of Knowledge and History) this may be pushed out early on by someone who was there; but in most cases it is probably only available later on when some knowledge-collecting entity or organization has the ability to compare versions and create a "consensus" history via years of scholarship. 

Quote
2. Will the myth generator be able to generate extremely advanced/magically potent 'precursor' races (I know, it's a sci-fi term, but I feel like it fits here too) and how would they be balanced? While it would be cool to have a race of basically omnipotent reality-bending lizards in the myth story, if they persisted in 'recorded history' (the playable time) in significant numbers it would probably be obscenely unbalanced and they'd be able to curbstomp everyone else.

Note that in some (I would argue "most", even) interpretations of DF, *you* are the precursors!  The dwarves delve improbably deep, build exotic and puzzling mega-projects with seeming disregard for economy or common sense, lash out with ludicrous overkill against minor slights, fight monsters from before the dawn of time with legendary warriors equipped with armor and weapons made from the very structure of Hell itself, and craft normally impossible works of art and craftsmanship. 

Consider... "This is the 'Treasure Room', suspended out over the magma sea by a single thin strut of polished obsidian, engraved with the stories of the First Age.  In it are a full-sized bed made from a single yellow diamond, a giant cave spider silk sock that was used to slay an ancient dragon, and a sword made from a mystical blue material that is unreasonably light and sharper than any physical substance could possibly be.  Access is guarded by a hatch cover impervious to any known attack, which appears to made from unicorn soap.  Legends say that if the ancient lever made from crimson petrified wood in the back room is ever pulled, the 300' tall dwarf statue that stands over the entrance far above will spew forth such a volume of lava from its upturned mug that the surrounding county will be utterly obliterated." 

The world-clock starts at 0, unless you choose to let it run for a while; if you want a world with a Khazad-dûm, it is up to you to delve it, and let the lesser ages to come wonder at the folly and skill of the dwarves of the First Age. 

(Of course, more prosaically, there are other many other playstyles and interpretations; and with the advent of new starting scenarios and procedural myths this may become less common.  But to me at least, this is the heart of DF.) 
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GenericUser

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #807 on: August 20, 2018, 08:02:14 pm »

1. Will personality now influence the descisions a leader might make? For example, a paitient and vengeful person might be more likely to start a plot?

2. Can we expect diplomatic faux pas or other things rising from the personalities of leaders and their relationships with each other?

3. With villainy being fleshed out, can we expect someone gaining enough power to start a civil war, or create their own ‘empire’?

4. Would dreams/goals influence plots? Say, if there’s a person who dreams to rule the world, they may hatch a plot to hold the world in their iron grip?
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Death Dragon

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #808 on: August 22, 2018, 08:13:46 pm »

There's a new interview podcast with Toady here:
https://kakebytes.podbean.com/e/episode-16-%E2%80%94-dwarf-fortress/
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #809 on: August 22, 2018, 08:45:05 pm »

There's a new interview podcast with Toady here:
https://kakebytes.podbean.com/e/episode-16-%E2%80%94-dwarf-fortress/
The moment they lose the connection and Toady just talks at length about the future and what mythgen means for the game was awesome.
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