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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 518980 times)

Nopenope

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1125 on: October 27, 2018, 10:41:37 pm »

Can I request that you post more screenshots of the game in your devlogs? I know sometimes you do, but I really do think it would be very helpful (and hype raising) to post more of them whenever you have an interesting feature to preview, like what you did with the myth generator.
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golemgunk

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1126 on: October 28, 2018, 02:05:45 am »

I think often there just isn't a lot to take screenshots of. Not a lot that isn't communicated just as easily through text, at least. Most of the things being worked on sound abstract or hard to capture visually. It'd be nice to see, but it's probably not worth the effort to show off every new line of dialogue or historical entry.
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Renarin21

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1127 on: October 28, 2018, 07:07:19 pm »

1. Will plotting/intrigue mechanics ever be generalized and used by non-villains, for non-villainous ends?
Yes. From this month's FotF:

Quote
Quote
iceball3
Another question: concerning "villainous plots", are the long term plans for these specifically to develop antagonists that can make clearly defined epics that the player can easily role play into? Or will the moralities and intentions of ambitious individuals start to become more ambiguous and diverse as ongoing development gives such actors more reasons to perform at odds with larger authorities?
Yeah, "villainous plots" is the current framing, and a handy enough way to think about it, and the starting plots are going to be more on the corrupt/etc. side of things, but even now, some of it can be viewed more as "spy vs. spy" or as a tale of vengeance (which has whatever moral shade) or paranoia.  The mechanics will apply to everybody operating in this sphere over time, as things become more interesting.  It's just easier to start with the straightforward stuff, and easier to make it player-facing.
I was referring more to things like merchants trying to build a larger social network, or someone recruiting the relative of a sweetheart to get married, and other things not explicitly intrigue-y.
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Nopenope

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1128 on: October 28, 2018, 11:10:33 pm »

Will there be trading outposts in player fortresses? Will the player be able to send their own trading outposts?
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Eric Blank

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1129 on: October 29, 2018, 05:32:02 pm »

Also, as there are no customs to control things, I didn't add any placeholder tags here, but I'm open to suggestions if people want to tweak it a bit before those years pass.
Im gonna make a new thread for this because its big and doesnt belong here but you offered so :v

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=172490.new#new

Also, i have to assume villainous plots include plots by one civs leader to take over other civs from the inside by corrupting their nobles, right?
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 05:39:34 pm by Eric Blank »
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Hapchazzard

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1130 on: October 29, 2018, 06:52:11 pm »

First, some villain questions:

1. a) Will the intricacies of a villain's schemes depend on their intelligence, so that there's a difference between the plots of some random street thug, an experienced court spymaster and a god of deception?
b) Speaking of schemes, I remember you talking about the investigative process in the game and piquing my interest. What kind of non-verbal clues will the player be able to encounter when investigating something? Letters, out of place items, gold coins from a specific location that were used as a bribe, etc?
c) Are there any plans to improve the observer skill in the villain update? What kind of improvements do you envision?

2. Will characters that are immortal/have extremely long lifespans(elves, magical creatures, deities, mortals augmented by life-prolonging magic) that are intelligent enough potentially have schemes that span centuries until they come to fruition? Will they be able to have numerous contingencies and back-up plans in the cards if things deviate from their predicted course? In general, how complex could plots get when dealing with creatures of vast intelligence and age?

3. How will the motivations of a sapient creature of an extremely alien mindset be simulated? Things like Lovecraftian/non-anthropomorphic deities, or forest spirits, or daemon-like entities representing some obscure sphere?

Now, some questions about magic:

4. Will there be the potential for certain magical spells/actions to become relatively common knowledge (among mages, at least) but the actual reason why they work is completely unknown/misunderstood? Say, the general consensus of why tarot cards work in the world is that Mykhanor, the God of Fate, is dispensing wisdom (and this would be the knowledge the player also has, at least initially) while in actuality Mykhanor isn't even real and the work of tarot cards is actually the product of local spirits messing around with them (but almost no one knows this).

5. How would possessions work when it comes to the player? I can imagine that completely losing control of your character wouldn't really be fun, but at the same time the entity's control of you shuold be simulated in some way.

6. Will dreams be a thing? Since dreams are an extremely common source of prophecies in fantasy, I assume that at least prophetic dreams will be a thing, but what about non-prophetic but somehow relevant dreams as well?

7. Since I assume regular, run-of-the-mill legends are also planned, will sufficiently important legends be able to 'morph' with a civ's creation myth to produce some kind of hybrid?


((Might add more questions a bit later))
« Last Edit: October 30, 2018, 09:56:28 am by Hapchazzard »
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1131 on: October 30, 2018, 03:50:14 am »

@Hapchazzard:
6: Books are currently written after the author having a dream in DF. Prophetic and perceived prophetic (that actually aren't, but possibly just wishful/dreadful thinking, or villainous lies) ought to be possible for true/false prophets. Otherwise it might be hard to get dreams to feature. There's the real world case of a dream about a snake biting its own tail that led the dreamer to realize what the shape of a benzene ring was, but in DF terms that would probably lead to the writing of a book (although a scientific rather than theological one).
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Real_bang

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1132 on: October 30, 2018, 05:04:39 am »

Man i cant wait for Fotf of this month :D
Why are the Adventure overview improvements marked as partially done? Are you planning to rework them/do something more with them?
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1133 on: October 30, 2018, 05:15:16 am »

Man i cant wait for Fotf of this month :D
Why are the Adventure overview improvements marked as partially done? Are you planning to rework them/do something more with them?
Yes. That's what partially done means. When that might be is another question...
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Real_bang

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1134 on: October 30, 2018, 06:10:26 am »

Man i cant wait for Fotf of this month :D
Why are the Adventure overview improvements marked as partially done? Are you planning to rework them/do something more with them?
Yes. That's what partially done means. When that might be is another question...
Damn dude no need to be passive-aggressive. I implied the question of what Toady wants to rework or remake in the Adventure overview. Sorry if i phrased that wrong
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therahedwig

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1135 on: October 30, 2018, 02:28:30 pm »

I guess it is because if you follow the devlog it is quite obvious 'partially done' means, some stuff was implemented, but not all the stuff. Like for example the "update towns and sites" under the heading of "Adventurer Role: Thief" was originally written when there were no detailed human towns. Now there are detailed human towns, but there's no existing places within those towns to really go to town on with a thief (stealing is basically, you walk in a house, grab stuff, walk out of the house. Noone will stop you, they will tell everyone else you are a thief, it's not the most exciting way to get this reputation...).

Because towns were improved a bit however, the line is marked as purple. Just, it could be better, needs some stuff added :)
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GenericUser

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1136 on: October 30, 2018, 03:46:57 pm »

1.With Trading Companies, would embargos and trade wars now be a thing? Depriving an area of its trade rather than outright invading it?
2. Will plots be able to smuggle things by taking control of the companies?
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1137 on: October 30, 2018, 04:56:51 pm »

1.With Trading Companies, would embargos and trade wars now be a thing? Depriving an area of its trade rather than outright invading it?
2. Will plots be able to smuggle things by taking control of the companies?

1. Unlikely. In order for an embargo to hurt the economy, there has to be an economy to hurt, and that arc is a fair bit off. The trade companies are currently being introduced to allow for plots, but the economic part of them will largely have to wait for that framework to be in place. We can assume, however, that Toady has some idea of how to integrate them when that time comes.
2. Largely the same issue: What would you want to smuggle? There are no illegal drugs (currently), so that would basically leave slaves and logs from illegal logging operations in elven territory, but why would they smuggle those if there's no profit from it? There aren't even any taxes to evade...
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feelotraveller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1138 on: October 30, 2018, 11:39:06 pm »

What would you want to smuggle?

Whatever is under an export ban!   :D

Though I'm not sure how that could be connected up at the moment in terms of payment/trade, risks to the smugglers (both citizens and trade company rep's) etc.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1139 on: October 31, 2018, 03:26:17 am »

What would you want to smuggle?

Whatever is under an export ban!   :D

Though I'm not sure how that could be connected up at the moment in terms of payment/trade, risks to the smugglers (both citizens and trade company rep's) etc.
A good response! However, with export bans flicking on and off at a whim it's not particularly practical, as the ban will have been lifted by the time you've organized the smuggling operation. Now, a long term ban would be a different issue, in particular an import one. I don't see either being implemented in the near term, though.
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