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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 382466 times)

Doorkeeper

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1155 on: November 04, 2018, 11:47:40 pm »

More or less agree with golemgunk here, that it's harder to take meaningful images of legends-mode type stuff -- I'll sometimes spend time reconstructing a tale from a world's legends instead, as you've read.  Back when we were doing village maps, etc., it was way easier to think of screenshots to do, then I pretty much fell off there.  I will try to think of it, but not sure I'll improve much there for this time.  Certainly the myth/magic stuff will have more, when stuff starts getting interesting out in the world.  But I'm not sure villainous plots generally will really have a lot of opportunities for a screenshot that adds anything.

Thanks for the explanation, Toady.
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Jacubus

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1156 on: November 10, 2018, 02:29:23 pm »

Will we be able to interact with trade companies in fortress mode or are they world gen only?

On similar note, you had also mentioned priests doing similar thing in a devlog, will they travel to player fortress temples?
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1157 on: November 10, 2018, 03:21:12 pm »

Will we be able to interact with trade companies in fortress mode or are they world gen only?

On similar note, you had also mentioned priests doing similar thing in a devlog, will they travel to player fortress temples?

Quote from: ToadyOne
Quote

    Quote from: Real_bang

        I have some questions about new devlog (as usual at this point, sorry if im overflowing you with questions).
        Will trading companies be able to open a branch warehouse in our fortress? If so will multiple companies be able to do it? Will this be the same with religion? What would be our benefit from letting them open a warehouse in our fortress? Will they build it themselves or we will have to construct it for them?

        Also this one is kinda offtopic and i think its been answered here before but can Toady put screenshots in devlogs? Or site's engine wont allow it? It would be fun to look at forgotten beast warehouse administrator picture. Or at any picture related to the new things being made (especially when it comes to the big wait)

    Quote from: Nopenope

        Will there be trading outposts in player fortresses? Will the player be able to send their own trading outposts?

    Quote from: Nopenope

        Can I request that you post more screenshots of the game in your devlogs? I know sometimes you do, but I really do think it would be very helpful (and hype raising) to post more of them whenever you have an interesting feature to preview, like what you did with the myth generator.


Regarding trade outposts, ha ha, we are right on the edge of that sort of thing, suddenly!  I'm not sure we'll go farther than the likely human merchant caravans being replaced by the worldgen/post w.g. historical traders, just because it's additional work on a release that has grown and needs to not grow much more.  No idea on how it would work specifically if we do attempt it.

therahedwig: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7876421#msg7876421
Doorkeeper: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7876467#msg7876467
golemgunk: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7878256#msg7878256

More or less agree with golemgunk here, that it's harder to take meaningful images of legends-mode type stuff -- I'll sometimes spend time reconstructing a tale from a world's legends instead, as you've read.  Back when we were doing village maps, etc., it was way easier to think of screenshots to do, then I pretty much fell off there.  I will try to think of it, but not sure I'll improve much there for this time.  Certainly the myth/magic stuff will have more, when stuff starts getting interesting out in the world.  But I'm not sure villainous plots generally will really have a lot of opportunities for a screenshot that adds anything.

Your questions were already high in demand Jacubus, i think you'll find what you're looking for in the above exerpt of last months fortress reply on the topic.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1158 on: November 10, 2018, 09:45:47 pm »

Just in case the answer's not apparent by the end of the month, I enjoyed the live twittering of your talk yesterday, but will there be a video/audio?
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Knight Otu

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1159 on: November 11, 2018, 05:12:22 am »

^

For those who haven't seen it, the live-twittering in question.
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Egan_BW

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1160 on: November 12, 2018, 10:59:56 am »

This... probably has been asked before, maybe even by myself. But I have the memory of a goldfish so I'll ask it anyway.

Would you ever consider adding non-ascii graphics to the game, to help communicate things that would be hard to illustrate using text alone? Thinking of things like a spherical world map, for example.

Mainly asking if you consider that to be an option or if you're attached to the classic ascii. Or if it would be too annoying to implement other graphics into the game.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1161 on: November 12, 2018, 11:52:09 am »

This... probably has been asked before, maybe even by myself. But I have the memory of a goldfish so I'll ask it anyway.

Would you ever consider adding non-ascii graphics to the game, to help communicate things that would be hard to illustrate using text alone? Thinking of things like a spherical world map, for example.

Mainly asking if you consider that to be an option or if you're attached to the classic ascii. Or if it would be too annoying to implement other graphics into the game.

- Based on what Toady has said about earlier ventured into graphics, it is a relief not to have to deal with it in DF, because it takes so much work to make changes that affect graphics.
- A spherical world is a rather poor example, as it's been discussed recently that any kind of map that results in map tile edges not aligning orthogonally is a pain, while a cylinder or torus would work (technically the inner side of the torus would be narrower than the outer one, but that can be ignored, just as the narrowness of poles on "normal" map is adapted to through distortion).
- ASCII (or rather, characters, as the code page used isn't actually ASCII) is not a goal in itself, but rather a means that makes development of contents reasonably easy without wasting time on adjusting graphics. Toady has commented that DF is out of characters to use before, and DF will probably move to a character set with more bits eventually (I wouldn't be surprised if it came as an emergency/mood effort at some time).
- There are talented tile set developers in the community, so it would be a waste to have Toady "compete" with them rather than developing contents.
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therahedwig

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1162 on: November 12, 2018, 12:58:42 pm »

hm... Maybe Egan_BW was actually wondering about ascii art or non-tilebased art?
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Egan_BW

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1163 on: November 12, 2018, 08:00:04 pm »

I'm asking about graphics, not art. The point of adding, for example, 3d graphics to the game would not to make it look prettier, but to make it be less of a pain to display things like a sphere. It could also allow for more moderate support for art, but that's definately a side benefit here to the UI aspect. There's only so much you can show using tiles and description.
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Okay, so you've crafted for yourself a set of false, easily falsifiable beliefs about your current situation based off of preconceptions you have from watching too much anime. And now you're going to be mad at me because the reality of the situation does not align with your delusion of how it's supposed to be.



No, I just wish you'd told me.

KittyTac

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1164 on: November 12, 2018, 10:07:05 pm »

Why don't we ignore the gaps between tiles in a spherical world (like a disco ball)?
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1165 on: November 13, 2018, 03:31:17 am »

Why don't we ignore the gaps between tiles in a spherical world (like a disco ball)?
I'm not sure I understand the disco ball reference (a very long time since I saw one), but moving one tile left, then one tile north, and then one tile south shouldn't land you in the same tile you started in, as that is rather illogical and confusing. While you can technically construct a world made out of bands of tiles with different numbers of tiles per band, not knowing which tile you end up in when crossing a N/S boundary (or E/W if you cut the world the other way), but possibly having that depend on where (in the E/W direction you leave the tile is not something that makes for a good player experience.
You may also take a look at map projection techniques to get an understanding of how every attempt to depict a sphere (which actually is a bit flattened and uneven), or other kind of curved surface, onto a flat surface is an exercise in making compromises between various goals (preserving angles, preserving area size, etc.).
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GoblinCookie

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1166 on: November 13, 2018, 07:15:36 am »

Why don't we ignore the gaps between tiles in a spherical world (like a disco ball)?
I'm not sure I understand the disco ball reference (a very long time since I saw one), but moving one tile left, then one tile north, and then one tile south shouldn't land you in the same tile you started in, as that is rather illogical and confusing. While you can technically construct a world made out of bands of tiles with different numbers of tiles per band, not knowing which tile you end up in when crossing a N/S boundary (or E/W if you cut the world the other way), but possibly having that depend on where (in the E/W direction you leave the tile is not something that makes for a good player experience.
You may also take a look at map projection techniques to get an understanding of how every attempt to depict a sphere (which actually is a bit flattened and uneven), or other kind of curved surface, onto a flat surface is an exercise in making compromises between various goals (preserving angles, preserving area size, etc.).

I'm getting Deja-vu here, where have I heard this discussion before?
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1167 on: November 13, 2018, 08:49:07 am »

I'm asking about graphics, not art. The point of adding, for example, 3d graphics to the game would not to make it look prettier, but to make it be less of a pain to display things like a sphere. It could also allow for more moderate support for art, but that's definately a side benefit here to the UI aspect. There's only so much you can show using tiles and description.
Suggestions forum is what you want. (it's OK to necro one of the many graphics threads to add your technical expertise to whatever discussions have gone before).

Dwarf Fortress exists because a conscious decision was made to not use 3D graphics, so it's not likely to get beyond "ideas to support the modders making 3D graphics for the game".
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Inarius

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1168 on: November 13, 2018, 11:40:41 am »

About Magic : do you already have a "list" of spells you would like to be in the game (i understand all of them wouldn't be in a game, considering the way magic & myth will work, but I suppose that "magical effects" will be drawn from some kind of list, somewhere ?), and if yes, how many of them have you, yet ?

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therahedwig

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1169 on: November 13, 2018, 02:40:17 pm »

I was playing adventure mode a bit back, and went from a town to visit the nearby dwarves. The town had been recently reclaimed by a human civ, and the dwarves told me there was a criminal organisation in the town. I was confused because I hadn't seen anything like that, so I went back and into all the underground structures I could find. There, I found the criminal organisation, but they were all dead, properly buried with slabs that said how they'd died(a Roc visited about 70 years earlier, which turned the town into a ruin in the first place).

But my character couldn't tell people about what I'd just read. Even funnier, looking at the stories my character knew, it seems she already knew about the criminal organisation and that they'd died from that Roc. And telling the story didn't generate a rumour either. So I have several questions:

1. What exactly is causing this rift between stories and rumours?
2. Is that also why my character, who can read, and read that gravestone cannot gain the information that these people are already dead?
3. Do you want a bugreport for this, or is it just a case of missing features?
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