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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 550049 times)

Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1620 on: February 21, 2019, 06:04:32 pm »

For the Myth and Myth Release will magic also be found in the form of runes? In many different fantasy settings dwarfs have a great affinity for "rune magic", will we ever see this in Dwarf Fortress as well?

If so, would this form of magic somehow be implemented into the engraving and magic skills? (In the sense that creating a rune would require knowledge in the engraving skill in order to carve the rune into an object, as well as the proper experience in magic to imbue power into the rune.) Or would "Rune Crafting"  have it's own skill(s) entirely to differentiate itself?

Lastly, What uses could rune magic have?
(For example: Could magic runes carved onto a weapon/piece of armor give said item special properties such as a rune engraved weapon now causing fire damage or have it deal harder hits in general? Could a rune engraved on a Helmet grant it a better chance at shrugging off blows? As another example, could engraving a rune on an object like a door make it so that it can only be opened by one with sufficient magical knowledge/skill? Or could magical runes be used as a form of "trap" engraved on a tile that could cause a lethal property to activate, for instance say, engulf the tile in flames if a specific creature (ex: a goblin or filthy elf) stepped on it?)


I might be going out on a limb or a tangent here that could quite possibly belong in the suggestions thread, but if something like this was ever implemented it could add a whole new depth for dwarfs interacting with objects as well as their environment.
Rune magic has been asked about and mostly confirmed in this thread before. I think if you do a search for runes you should find a previous answer from not so long ago.

--edit
Oh, like this one to start with. There's others too I think.
Quote
4. Traditionally, wizard magic is a big no no for dwarves. Do you think we'll be able to make dwarf wizards anyway on our forts, if we want to?

Toady's reply:


4. It depends on what you mean and the settings for that world.  "Geomancers" and "Rune <X>ers" are common dwarf 'wizard' types that aren't closely linked to the more-often-used priest powers.  Then there's the more traditional links to magical item production, which is a sort of magic.  The more vanilla settings will lean this way, toward 'dwarfy' magics, I suspect.  Others will allow more arbitrary research and spell opportunities.  Even in the vanilla settings, doing things like exploring runes and the powers of the earth would be on the table as research-style possibilities.

« Last Edit: February 21, 2019, 06:08:24 pm by Shonai_Dweller »
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Untrustedlife

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1621 on: February 21, 2019, 06:15:33 pm »

1)
8)Will haunted furniture night creatures make it in before the big wait?


Haunted houses with haunted furniture have been planned since he first added night creatures, so at some point they will make it in, but i doubt he will get sidetracked and suddenly do another push on night creatures right before starting on the magic update so its unlikely. (It would be cool though, now that villas and such are  a thing)
(He talks about it on the night creature df talk)
http://www.bay12games.com/media/Dwarf_Fortress_Talk_14.mp3
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Bad_Goblin

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1622 on: February 21, 2019, 11:08:15 pm »

For the Myth and Myth Release will magic also be found in the form of runes? In many different fantasy settings dwarfs have a great affinity for "rune magic", will we ever see this in Dwarf Fortress as well?

If so, would this form of magic somehow be implemented into the engraving and magic skills? (In the sense that creating a rune would require knowledge in the engraving skill in order to carve the rune into an object, as well as the proper experience in magic to imbue power into the rune.) Or would "Rune Crafting"  have it's own skill(s) entirely to differentiate itself?

Lastly, What uses could rune magic have?
(For example: Could magic runes carved onto a weapon/piece of armor give said item special properties such as a rune engraved weapon now causing fire damage or have it deal harder hits in general? Could a rune engraved on a Helmet grant it a better chance at shrugging off blows? As another example, could engraving a rune on an object like a door make it so that it can only be opened by one with sufficient magical knowledge/skill? Or could magical runes be used as a form of "trap" engraved on a tile that could cause a lethal property to activate, for instance say, engulf the tile in flames if a specific creature (ex: a goblin or filthy elf) stepped on it?)


I might be going out on a limb or a tangent here that could quite possibly belong in the suggestions thread, but if something like this was ever implemented it could add a whole new depth for dwarfs interacting with objects as well as their environment.
Rune magic has been asked about and mostly confirmed in this thread before. I think if you do a search for runes you should find a previous answer from not so long ago.

--edit
Oh, like this one to start with. There's others too I think.
Quote
4. Traditionally, wizard magic is a big no no for dwarves. Do you think we'll be able to make dwarf wizards anyway on our forts, if we want to?

Toady's reply:


4. It depends on what you mean and the settings for that world.  "Geomancers" and "Rune <X>ers" are common dwarf 'wizard' types that aren't closely linked to the more-often-used priest powers.  Then there's the more traditional links to magical item production, which is a sort of magic.  The more vanilla settings will lean this way, toward 'dwarfy' magics, I suspect.  Others will allow more arbitrary research and spell opportunities.  Even in the vanilla settings, doing things like exploring runes and the powers of the earth would be on the table as research-style possibilities.

Wow, that's pretty cool info! Thank you for digging through the thread and finding this answer from toady, I'll have to go back and do a bit of digging myself and see if I can find anything else related to dwarf magic and runes.
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Urist McVoyager

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1623 on: February 22, 2019, 09:46:11 am »

Why dont demons go on a rampage throughout the world once you release them or at least do more then just hang around your site? And why do mummies disappear when you leave the site, wouldnt it be much more simulations/interesting if they actually stuck around? It just seems odd given the other features in the game which are far more simulationist and kinda clashes with the reality of the situation.

Toady's talked about this in the past. Right now it's intentional for demons to stay put because he doesn't want a mistake in one fort to make the rest of the world almost unplayable. I mean, imagine your frustration if the literally endless horde of demons invaded the rest of the world. You start a fortress and by year two a pack of demons forces you to turtle. And it keeps happening in every fort. Or you're out in adventure mode and a demon catches up to you before you're a one-person army and kills you. And that keeps happening . . .
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Egan_BW

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1624 on: February 22, 2019, 10:20:32 am »

After a few times enough time has passed for the demons to kill everyone, raze everything, and extinctify every civilization. At which point you can no longer play.
I'm saying that this is a self-solving problem.
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Robsoie

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1625 on: February 22, 2019, 11:36:39 am »

I sure hope he'll revise his position then, there's a lot of potential fun in trying to build and protect the last remnant of dwarven kingdom in a world that the demons are invading, without even mentionning the fun in adventure mode.
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George_Chickens

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1626 on: February 22, 2019, 12:13:23 pm »

Are false plots a possibility? For instance, a king's agent instigating a false assassination plot against him to draw out and execute traitors.
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Cruxador

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1627 on: February 22, 2019, 01:17:55 pm »

Quote
Being raised a goblin, Bax was a natural for villainy
Just pointing this out, but this is implicit support for the (statistically false) political notion that refugees are dangerous.
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EternalCaveDragon

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1628 on: February 22, 2019, 01:36:45 pm »

Quote
Being raised a goblin, Bax was a natural for villainy
Just pointing this out, but this is implicit support for the (statistically false) political notion that refugees are dangerous.

It's more an effect of the system right now where a character raised in a certain civilization automatically adopts the civ's values and such. Goblins are designed to be natural villains for this setting, thus their values and personality traits are geared towards that inclination. And because of their babysnatching, you get characters of other races that have their values too. And when goblins grow up in non-goblin civs, they have their birth civ's values. So, not quite. Plus the dev log wasn't talking about a refugee but a wandering dancer who was traveling of their own free will outside of their home nation.

That and as PatrikLundell says below trying to project onto a game isn't too productive.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2019, 01:56:17 pm by EternalCaveDragon »
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1629 on: February 22, 2019, 01:42:36 pm »

Quote
Being raised a goblin, Bax was a natural for villainy
Just pointing this out, but this is implicit support for the (statistically false) political notion that refugees are dangerous.
No, it's not, unless you subscribe to the notion that the people of the countries are fleeing from are, by their "racial" nature bent towards evil. The real world has no Goblins (or any Dwarven race either, for that matter). Trying to project fantasy onto the real world (or vice versa) is not a fruitful venture.
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Eric Blank

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1630 on: February 22, 2019, 02:34:07 pm »

How can the player-adventurer pick out houses within a town that belonged to a historical figure? Will they be visibly different somehow, or do we ask around for properties? Random merchant houses in current towns all look the same inside and out.
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Untrustedlife

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1631 on: February 22, 2019, 02:48:18 pm »

I sure hope he'll revise his position then, there's a lot of potential fun in trying to build and protect the last remnant of dwarven kingdom in a world that the demons are invading, without even mentionning the fun in adventure mode.

Well yeah, and the player brought it upon themselves, that is an actual effect on the world. Much like horrible magical accidents that make a whole region evil. Like, that would be fun, I want that.
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Random_Dragon

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1632 on: February 22, 2019, 02:51:01 pm »

Quote
Being raised a goblin, Bax was a natural for villainy
Just pointing this out, but this is implicit support for the (statistically false) political notion that refugees are dangerous.

Given the status of goblin civilizations in DF and the fact that a lot of the histfigs changing civs do so seemingly because they can, it's arguably closer in implication to the "post-war German hiding in Argentina" thing than modern scenarios...
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Untrustedlife

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1633 on: February 22, 2019, 03:05:12 pm »

Quote
Being raised a goblin, Bax was a natural for villainy
Just pointing this out, but this is implicit support for the (statistically false) political notion that refugees are dangerous.

Given the status of goblin civilizations in DF and the fact that a lot of the histfigs changing civs do so seemingly because they can, it's arguably closer in implication to the "post-war German hiding in Argentina" thing than modern scenarios...

There was a thread that was locked that talked about refugees awhile back.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169380.0

Toady tries to avoid problematic things in his game (eg, you cant ban goblins from your tavern, it represents lgbtq people etc.) but as alot of people are responding, its a game, and an incomplete game at that, the current way values work is they have their civs values as a baase (and its somewhat randomized which values they actually have, as you can see when creating your adventurer, you never exactly align with your culture, and sometimes dont even closely align with your culture or align with your culture at all, you just skew towards your culture slightly)  and those values can "mutate" with experiences and they can change based on new civs they go to etc.) so i think he shows that he doesn't support that refugee stereotype in other aspects of his game, in fact his game shows the opposite, that peoples values don't necessarily align with their civilization at all, and everyone is an individual, and you cant generalize. So i feel like this conversation is unproductive, and is simply a person misconstruing toady's implementation.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2019, 03:19:51 pm by Untrustedlife »
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Random_Dragon

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1634 on: February 22, 2019, 03:11:13 pm »

Indeed. One way or another it's a game, and any political implications are usually the player's actions rather than in-universe representation.

In practice, refusing any visitor that isn't a mercenary or monster-hunter is more productive than turning away elves or goblins anyway. :P
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