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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 678573 times)

MrWiggles

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1965 on: May 01, 2019, 06:40:34 am »

Is the tutorial you've been thinking of (PC Gamer) likely to be an addition for the paid version of DF like the tileset and music, or is this something for the game in general? (I know the tutorial-by-acheivement idea would have to be Steam only, just meaning the regular 'how to build stuff, restore your woodcutter's arms' parts).
The Steam version isnt getting anything special beside the tileset. And the tileset just comes bundle with the steam version. The speical work going in for the tileset, will be open to any future tileset.
No. The Premium version (Steam AND Itch.io) should have a soundtrack as well as the tileset, while the Steam version seems to get Steam Achievements on top of that. Shonai_Dweller's question is quite relevant, as it IS unclear both if a tutorial type thing is going to be produced, and whether it's going to be available in all DF versions, Premium, or Steam only if it appears.

The underlying mechanics changes (whatever they end up being) are intended to be available to all DF versions (as stated), if I understand it correctly, so tileset artists should be able to create sets making use of those mechanics. This probably means only the Premium version will have a tileset at release, while community tilesets will play catch-up (as it's always been).
According to the Kitfox discord, the Premium version wont be different, beside a tileset and steam workshop intergration. Though the mods will work across any version. The soundtrack will be in all versions.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1966 on: May 01, 2019, 06:53:31 am »

Is the tutorial you've been thinking of (PC Gamer) likely to be an addition for the paid version of DF like the tileset and music, or is this something for the game in general? (I know the tutorial-by-acheivement idea would have to be Steam only, just meaning the regular 'how to build stuff, restore your woodcutter's arms' parts).
The Steam version isnt getting anything special beside the tileset. And the tileset just comes bundle with the steam version. The speical work going in for the tileset, will be open to any future tileset.
No. The Premium version (Steam AND Itch.io) should have a soundtrack as well as the tileset, while the Steam version seems to get Steam Achievements on top of that. Shonai_Dweller's question is quite relevant, as it IS unclear both if a tutorial type thing is going to be produced, and whether it's going to be available in all DF versions, Premium, or Steam only if it appears.

The underlying mechanics changes (whatever they end up being) are intended to be available to all DF versions (as stated), if I understand it correctly, so tileset artists should be able to create sets making use of those mechanics. This probably means only the Premium version will have a tileset at release, while community tilesets will play catch-up (as it's always been).
According to the Kitfox discord, the Premium version wont be different, beside a tileset and steam workshop intergration. Though the mods will work across any version. The soundtrack will be in all versions.
Well, Toady just confirmed, but thanks anyhow.

Wait, where did they say the soundtrack was for all versions?

From Patreon:
Quote
"When the Steam version is released, people that choose to pick it up will get the new graphical tiles, new music and audio, as well as Steam Workshop integration. "
« Last Edit: May 01, 2019, 06:38:12 pm by Shonai_Dweller »
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clinodev

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1967 on: May 02, 2019, 12:54:50 am »

According to the Kitfox discord, the Premium version wont be different, beside a tileset and steam workshop intergration. Though the mods will work across any version. The soundtrack will be in all versions.

I spend an awful lot of time on the Kitfox Discord, and I've missed anything intentionally like that.

I suspect whoever gave you that impression simply wasn't thinking about the soundtrack. I find it hardly gets discussed at all.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1968 on: May 02, 2019, 01:02:50 am »

According to the Kitfox discord, the Premium version wont be different, beside a tileset and steam workshop intergration. Though the mods will work across any version. The soundtrack will be in all versions.

I spend an awful lot of time on the Kitfox Discord, and I've missed anything intentionally like that.

I suspect whoever gave you that impression simply wasn't thinking about the soundtrack. I find it hardly gets discussed at all.
Probably mistook a question about music and audio functionality. That at least will be in all versions, same as the graphics functionality. The new tileset and music are being made by people paid by Kitfox in order to sell on Steam and Itch.io. No reason to think otherwise at this point.
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Toady One

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1969 on: May 02, 2019, 01:46:46 am »

(Yeah, Steam/itch get the new audio tracks and other distributed sound files.  All versions get the ability to play music and sounds, using whatever unified system it ends up being, though it'll be up to modders to do anything beyond my original guitar tracks.)
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1970 on: May 02, 2019, 02:16:32 am »

(Yeah, Steam/itch get the new audio tracks and other distributed sound files.  All versions get the ability to play music and sounds, using whatever unified system it ends up being, though it'll be up to modders to do anything beyond my original guitar tracks.)
The great Simon Swerwer will fill the gap quite easily, I expect.
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1971 on: May 02, 2019, 04:20:59 am »

Spoiler: "Toady Reply" (click to show/hide)

Very nice, i would hope some alliances would also make the game less bumpy for the typically weak nations to not get rolled over by the largest (which are usually hyper zealous elves) and give me some time to build a under-floor trapdoor to dispose of begging diplomats bringing menu message spam.

Do you think more investment into active diplomacy would break the cycles of DF that any small hitch in the working relationships of your fortress and outside civs eventually leads to a conflict without resolution?

To kind of add, gifting artifacts to my knowledge is meant to smooth things over as are demanding them but usually there's only really a few out of probably many (when you have a set of 10 therabouts) that other civs actually covet. Once you start a war often by accident of bugs without meaning to strain your relationship the only REAL resolution is to prepare to kill the entire population of the enemy which is often unfeasable.

Im aware of it being a abstact concept, but do you have any kind of view on making DF's war & politics more 'game' like for accessibility-(concepts like 'War Score' for instance to determine after how many raids, battles and razings the war's direction is going to pressure diplomatic action like surrender and peace) -or will the game always have other civs or 'actors' as it were in the abstract?

The breakdown and very scatty diplomacy breaks many wars this way, which are status quo because the relevant people are offsite or dead already and they won't quit, i think i had a near extinct human civ once battle a large elf nation for 200 years because they retreated (or bandits did) into the caves where they wouldn't be found once, that was a wierd world save (I've lost it now anyway).
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Egan_BW

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1972 on: May 02, 2019, 04:30:27 am »

Given that you're having music made for the steam version, does that mean that we shouldn't expect you to ever record more songs for the vanilla version?
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1973 on: May 02, 2019, 05:31:42 am »

Given that you're having music made for the steam version, does that mean that we shouldn't expect you to ever record more songs for the vanilla version?
Post version 1 retirement plan perhaps, write less code, play more guitar?
"Ever" is a long time. :)
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zakarum

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1974 on: May 02, 2019, 07:20:41 am »

Thanks a lot for the answers Toady!

I disagree that the forums are or can become a walled garden. They are completely free and you don't even need an account to see links. But I understand how the biggest leap was the decision to go to Steam and the Workshop might seem like just a bonus feature - here's hoping it doesn't become a walled garden, or that at least the "Steam workshop downloader" site(s) work.

I also do understand that the FotF format is one of the few things keeping it alive and I can't really think of any suggestions that could solve the pitfalls of the current system. I do see it growing so much over time that at some point you will have to define a number of questions you are answering then making a lottery out of it.
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Death Dragon

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1975 on: May 02, 2019, 09:54:58 pm »

Did you know there is a very short preview of one of the new DF songs (fall season) on Dabu's website?
https://music.wixstatic.com/preview/62c446_df53752b07644de9841842bc4fcd153a-128.mp3
Seems nice for an ambient track, but I hope there willl also be some more exciting flamenco themed music in there. Maybe as combat music?

The great Simon Swerwer will fill the gap quite easily, I expect.
Swerwer is gonna be impossible to beat.

I disagree that the forums are or can become a walled garden. They are completely free and you don't even need an account to see links. But I understand how the biggest leap was the decision to go to Steam and the Workshop might seem like just a bonus feature - here's hoping it doesn't become a walled garden, or that at least the "Steam workshop downloader" site(s) work.
My problem with steam workshop is that, as far as I know, you can't upload mods for games that you don't own on steam. You actually can't even post COMMENTS on mods for games that you don't own on steam for some weird reason. It's very likely to become the place to be for DF mods, meaning if you want your mod to become popular, you'll probably need to buy the game on steam (instead of itch.io).
And yeah, the other problem is that non-steam users will have to use some weird, inofficial steam workshop downloading site to get the mods.
Steam workshop is great in principle, but man, I wish Valve wouldn't use it as a way to screw over their competition.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1976 on: May 02, 2019, 10:14:51 pm »

Ask the modder to post them at DFFD (so long as it's not a premium tileset adaptation mod).

If for some reason it's a mod that a modder doesn't want the entire community to use, discuss and therefore have any chance of being becoming popular, it's probably not worth downloading in the first place.
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Death Dragon

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1977 on: May 03, 2019, 02:42:20 am »

How would you even contact the modder? You'd have to hope that they accept steam friend requests from strangers. And even then, they'd have to reupload the mod whenever it gets updated.
Using one of those workshop downloader sites is a lot easier, but they don't always function.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1978 on: May 03, 2019, 03:29:54 am »

How would you even contact the modder? You'd have to hope that they accept steam friend requests from strangers. And even then, they'd have to reupload the mod whenever it gets updated.
Using one of those workshop downloader sites is a lot easier, but they don't always function.
Post a comment. Steam has comments.

Well, whatever. If people insist on locking their mods away from the community which actually plays them, there's not much you can do about it. Kind of weird way to get your mod seen, but there you go. Most will no doubt stick to the mods made by experienced modders anyway.

And it's not like people are going to be teaching others how to mod on the Steam forum. All of that support is right here.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2019, 03:32:53 am by Shonai_Dweller »
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1979 on: May 03, 2019, 04:25:22 am »

And it's not like people are going to be teaching others how to mod on the Steam forum. All of that support is right here.

Depending on how its implemented, a guide on how to mod might be nessecary to put some control into first time players approaching through the medium of ASCII being a little bit heavy (without using starting packs) and to revert + alter changes to the mods that they are playing if they suddenly find a issue where they need to reset because of flawed or overlapping raws but don't want to lose savefiles not stored on cloud etc.

Simple things like pointing out the right directories, and the differences + syntax of the file types; I think mods for world presets to add to advanced generation will be VERY popular however besides from full content overhauls/re-writes like the Masterwork mod, smaller mods i dont think will draw a lot of traction like the forums but that's my reserved opinion.
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