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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 445908 times)

FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2055 on: May 13, 2019, 12:12:19 pm »

What about intelligent undead just wanting to stay regularly dead so they coup the necromancer just to undo the spell and finally rest in peace?

A Mummy is a undead summoner (of sorts, for their tomb), but since the undead are already immortal without a explicit reasoning that lieutenants can raise their own inheriently, killing the necromancer would mean no more zombies and we can assume that without instantly collapsing, they'll just dissapate and still haunt the wilderness populations until they're all exterminated.

Finnicky magic stuff, determining the properties of the spell, what they are and what they do. Threetoe's stories covered a aspect of it, such as the protagonist night creature hunter having the supernatural ability to 'see' the dark energies of his quarry, which were detached but similar to zombies.
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ZM5

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2056 on: May 13, 2019, 03:35:25 pm »

Question about advanced worldgen, since I'm struggling with a mod I'm doing - does setting the parameter for bogeyman generation to 0 completely disable bogey attacks, even if custom ones are in the raws folder, or does it only prevent vanilla bogeymen from generating?

Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2057 on: May 13, 2019, 04:35:36 pm »

Third: Are rogue adventurers(not belonging to any civ) gonna be able to acquire pets and mounts in adventure creation mode?
I kinda wanted to do an eragon mod and this question came to mind
If a sapient does not belong to any civ, which creatures does he have access to?

Im not sure where you're exactly driving from unless we take 'rogue' as to mean A: Morally and ethically ambigious or B: Part of no present civilisation, acting on their own interests.

If its the former, there's never been any restriction before now really on what a player can do, Fortress & Adventurer mode sillyness is written off as possessed insanity. If its the latter thus far you can be a 'outsider' but you'll always have a parent civ as a safety blanket which also allocates the data such as picking out the right data for you and where to appear in the world. So that'll probably not happen until smaller sites/scenarios can justify place with only world links, not explicit civilization links like a exile's hermit tent out in the forest or something, closest you have are monster shrines & caves currently, but even those feel a civ's influence.

To dance around your question a bit, it'll probably revolve around the mechanisms that pets are aquired, either by terms of taming them yourself or not being blacklisted from town merchants for silly antics (possibly hostile civ towns if you want to buy a beakdog on the sly under a false identity) a devlog might clarify in the future if we're lucky to hear more from Toady.

  • The answer to your no civ:no animals sapients question is; none, all the data is done by the civ, a creature without the framework is just a singular unit if not just a wilderness creature statistic, though the smallest entity/civ groups can be just one unit depending on what they are, like a army or refugee's from a very underpopulated place.
It's a question about outsiders.

But actually, do Outsiders have assigned parent civs?
I thought they started with no knowledge of art forms precisely because they didn't have a parent civ? Therefore what pets they get access to in character generation is still an unknown factor.

(Might be misremembering about art forms. Haven't played an Outsider in a while).
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2058 on: May 13, 2019, 04:55:29 pm »

To my understanding they are just a 'outcast' group which operates inside the civ but isn't culturally assimilated to it if that helps clarify anything for you. Lurking in catacombs and the sort from amblivient gangs and refugees.
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EternalCaveDragon

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2059 on: May 13, 2019, 04:57:19 pm »

@EternalCaveDragon: It would be hard for a Were to implement any schemes since the phase where they can spread the curse (i.e. the Were phase) is one where they're completely overcome by rage, and thus unable to implement anything they might have planned. The problem is similar to that of sapient undead who are Opposed to Life (if that's how Toady implements them): the urge overpowers any plans.

They can still ensure they're in a position for maximum spread of infection prior to the full moon and then move on afterward. It's a simplistic and haphazard plan but it's still planning that they'd be plenty capable of when in their non-were form.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2060 on: May 13, 2019, 05:10:38 pm »

@EternalCaveDragon: It would be hard for a Were to implement any schemes since the phase where they can spread the curse (i.e. the Were phase) is one where they're completely overcome by rage, and thus unable to implement anything they might have planned. The problem is similar to that of sapient undead who are Opposed to Life (if that's how Toady implements them): the urge overpowers any plans.

They can still ensure they're in a position for maximum spread of infection prior to the full moon and then move on afterward. It's a simplistic and haphazard plan but it's still planning that they'd be plenty capable of when in their non-were form.
The most effective plan would then probably be to try to position yourself sufficiently far away from a small group of weak victims that you ought to turn back while in the middle of slaughtering them, so some may survive (including yourself: being naked, unarmed, and confused while hostiles are around would be rather risky).
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Mel_Vixen

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2061 on: May 13, 2019, 07:11:51 pm »

Dont you, atleast as player get control over that Were-curse at some point? If it would be the same for the cursed NPC they could orchestrate and attacks, making use of theyr regeneration etc.

Might be similiar for intelligent undead if they have control though with a bit of reduced options. You surely cant go with the more social options but you could always threaten people/settlements, bribe some people with immortality (tze olde vampyr trope) and so on. In the end you could just get someone as middleman that is under your thumb.

Interresting to see in legends mode would be a Undead underling, bribing a General/Lord to incite war with another faction so that the undead underlings boss can raise zombies after a fight.

Cause of that following Question comes to mind: Does the game, in WG fights, tally the dead after a big fight or is there some kind intermediet tally? Like are they fighting for X rounds and count the dead afterwards or do they count them each round?
Could a necro raise the fallen if they were part of one of the sides f.e. if they were under a coveridentity?
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Japa

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2062 on: May 14, 2019, 10:10:16 am »

Zombie performance troupes need to stay.
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Dorsidwarf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2063 on: May 14, 2019, 10:11:17 am »

Zombie performance troupes need to stay.

But only if the zombies are concealing their identity as non-zombies, heheh

The Troupe Of Merry Troubadours Who Are Not The Living Dead
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Buttery_Mess

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2064 on: May 14, 2019, 06:44:15 pm »

Will it be possible for players to become intelligent undead thralls?

Can "villainous" networks be used for good, either by NPCs or players? In fiction, heroic spy networks are quite common. Not sure how heroic they are irl.
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2065 on: May 15, 2019, 02:39:21 am »

Can "villainous" networks be used for good, either by NPCs or players? In fiction, heroic spy networks are quite common. Not sure how heroic they are irl.

Even in completely rightous terms there's still some moral ambiguity in 'the good guys' since not all DF things are as clear cut as good and bad, using your own initative to assassinate a 'obstructive' and poorly viewed ruler by the cityfolk who haven't insurrected and deposed them yet is probably a good use of that plotting power.

But the void of power might create a opening for someone already plotting for the throne in a selfish claim to arise who could be just as worse.
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2066 on: May 15, 2019, 06:04:39 am »

Sorry for the double post, but a seperate post for a seperate question since i wanted to ask something about alliances.

#1: Only diplomats have the [Make Peace Agreements] responsibility etc currently, does this mean we won't be able to push our proposals of alliances if the option is open until in the post king + metropolis lategame when they arrive and become properly settled?

#2: Also sort of tied to the first question (by means of getting to the required noble which in theory should do diplomatic actions), will we be able to attack our allies or break our alliances directly?

The implicits here is that by the use of tags, unless the messenger plays a part, we'll receive alliance offers because our leaders can recieve diplomats or be locked into a pre-existing alliance that might or might not be favorable for us if our ally is doing silly things like starting wars (attacking a civ site with more enemy allies than us) we don't want to partake in or we assume that we're actually strong enough to beat them up too for looting and razing.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2067 on: May 15, 2019, 07:07:12 am »

:
#1: Only diplomats have the [Make Peace Agreements] responsibility etc currently, does this mean we won't be able to push our proposals of alliances if the option is open until in the post king + metropolis lategame when they arrive and become properly settled?

#2: Also sort of tied to the first question (by means of getting to the required noble which in theory should do diplomatic actions), will we be able to attack our allies or break our alliances directly?
:
I didn't think the arrival appointment of a monarch resulted in a fortress getting access to civ level diplomacy currently (I haven't noticed anything when my fortresses have been saddled with monarchs, anyway)?
If a monarch currently doesn't open up civ level options, I don't think they'll do in the near term either (the Starting Scenarios or Law&Customs arcs are possible candidates for opening up that level). Of course, villains might cause some havoc that more or less requires civ level actions to be managable, but I doubt that will be the case.
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Bumber

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2068 on: May 15, 2019, 08:46:48 am »

Have you given any thought to Steam trading cards for the game yet? You could probably do some crayon drawings or a small ASCII scene (like some regional tiles, the intro movie art, or a mayor's office.) Collect the full set and you get a badge of the DF logo dwarf for your Steam profile.
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2069 on: May 15, 2019, 12:02:34 pm »

I didn't think the arrival appointment of a monarch resulted in a fortress getting access to civ level diplomacy currently?

They don't currently, which is why the question is directed for the future release where some functions with alliances may be added within context to what we already have (rather than new nobles), not to try and confuse anybody. The liason and diplomat mostly post monarch sit around demanding extortionately large rooms with no payoff and redundant worldgen only tags, its a bit deflating honestly though the general + elite warriors far overshadow them in usefulness.

If i remember correctly, the liason will also stop making trade agreements with you & since the diplomat never leaves your fortress, its implicative that your civ can only recieve diplomats but not send any out to propose a peace deal and end anything currently ongoing. Hopefully some more future diplomatic actions will put some meat on these interactions to make them meaningful and keep the player involved but that might end up being a different arc (likely laws & customs).

It stands to reason when the reins of your government you've been a colony of settle their positions in your fortress you should probably be able to access everyone who was serving under them too rather than be trapped in your embark box.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2019, 12:04:13 pm by FantasticDorf »
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