Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 138 139 [140] 141 142 ... 162

Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 438125 times)

Shonai_Dweller

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2085 on: May 23, 2019, 03:42:53 am »

you mentioned that one of these new intelligent undead was killed defending its tower from an attack by another necromancer. Does that mean that necromacers aren't always on the same side, and undead can be made to attack each other now?

Currently I think raised zombies will ignore anything that's also undead, so vampire adventurers can just stroll right into a tower unimpeded. If they're taking their group affiliation into account now, I imagine this will change.
Remember worldgen works differently to actual in-game interactions. Just look at all the non-goblin poets who go to live in the local Dark Pits to study under the poetry masters there. Try that in-game and see how long you last...  :)

Fair question though. Would be nice to see a little more unity between worldgen and in-game.
Logged

voliol

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2086 on: May 23, 2019, 03:48:12 am »

1. Is there any difference between the different kinds of intelligent undead, or are the different names just there for procedural flavor and to give the player a hint to who raised them?

2. Does the computer-controlled dwarves breaking into hell mean that they get access to adamantine? If they do, how is this handled, considering fortress mode wagons have a seemingly endless supply of all kinds of metals, and I have a hard time imagining players should get access to adamantine without the risk of mining it themselves?

3. New goblin(?) or at least demon-lead civs being born excites me, as that would indicate a change from the current status quo where civilizations only die out instead of being created. However, how about the other forces of evil? Are big enough undead empires considered full civilizations (showing up like that on the c-screen etc.) or are they still considered only expansions of one necromancer's villainous network?

4. Do elves eat the undead? Or, rather, the dead undead that they have just killed?

PatrikLundell

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2087 on: May 23, 2019, 04:02:30 am »


:
2. Does the computer-controlled dwarves breaking into hell mean that they get access to adamantine? If they do, how is this handled, considering fortress mode wagons have a seemingly endless supply of all kinds of metals, and I have a hard time imagining players should get access to adamantine without the risk of mining it themselves?
:
4. Do elves eat the undead? Or, rather, the dead undead that they have just killed?

2. The current logic for material access decides what resources a civ gets access to based on what's available in the immediate vicinity of the starting Mountain Hall, and does not include adamantine currently. I'd expect dynamic resource access to be introduced at or after the introduction of an economy (and derived metal access may become based on access to the source metals as well).
4. Dorfs butcher and eat undead, so I see no reason elves wouldn't. Given that the corpses of undead formed from former sapients aren't considered corpses of sapients currently (they go into the refuse stockpile rather than the corpse one and don't scare people, as well as being subject to a burial eternal hauling bug for those raised from citizens and residents) elves may not consider them to be sapient foes worthy of being devoured, though. I wonder what the status of the corpse of an intelligent undead will be, though...
Logged

Shonai_Dweller

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2088 on: May 23, 2019, 04:13:12 am »

If adamantine mining is now a thing (and why else would dorfs dig too deep?), stands to reason something has been done to current systems to deal with it's existence in worldgen.

Seems there's a chance of dwarf survivors too, otherwise I'd say just give it all to the clowns.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2019, 04:19:10 am by Shonai_Dweller »
Logged

FantasticDorf

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2089 on: May 23, 2019, 04:38:37 am »

2. The current logic for material access decides what resources a civ gets access to based on what's available in the immediate vicinity of the starting Mountain Hall, and does not include adamantine currently. I'd expect dynamic resource access to be introduced at or after the introduction of an economy (and derived metal access may become based on access to the source metals as well).

Company warehouses of ye'olde Amazon obtaining materials such as draltha leather (in devlog), or indeed Adamantine from a soon to be doomed deeply dug fortress through trade might power forward other things. Naturally if the guilds bulk buy admantine from company stock, work it and then sell it to very successful & rich mercenaries for a profit margin as personal gear or to town shop vendors/wagon merchants the system will have been working perfectly.

But that's just speculative as we don't super know if a primary-secondary-tertiary chain like that exists, only their supposed broad roles and the guilds haven't nessecarily had a proper devlog to explain, perhaps still forthcoming or it's on the backburner for explicit detail.

Toady, do enemy civs ally together in response to player aggressiveness trying to scoop up settlements forcefully to eventually reach nobility targets like baron, duke and count?
it seems like it'd be either too much of a deterrant going that path or a easy way to incur fun if you are the percieved world ending threat of a conquerer.
Logged

voliol

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2090 on: May 23, 2019, 05:54:27 am »

Toady, do enemy civs ally together in response to player aggressiveness trying to scoop up settlements forcefully to eventually reach nobility targets like baron, duke and count? it seems like it'd be either too much of a deterrant going that path or a easy way to incur fun if you are the percieved world ending threat of a conquerer.

To cite the latest devpost: "[alliances will be formed against] the more evil threats (any group that requires the killing of neutrals, like gobs and the undead)". This is probably about the entity ethics, as defined by the raws (or possibly hardcoded in the case of necromancers). As that there should be no framework for the game to guess the ethics of the player-controlled fortresses, they should default to being the same as the parent civ/entity, and thus the other civilizations shouldn't be able to detect any plans of world domination, unless your parent civ has the necessary ethic tokens. Attacking sites of different civs will still lead to all of them attacking you separately, though.

therahedwig

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
    • wolthera.info
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2091 on: May 23, 2019, 08:41:36 am »

I guess anything more advanced than that will require the entity-ai to be a bit smarter so it can make strategic decisions like 'do I dislike raising the undead more than I dislike war-throphies?' and 'do I have any important trade deals with the zombie infested tower that I'll endanger with this alliance?'

Still if it works to make sure not all worlds become overrun with evil :)

It's kind of nice to see the other evil stuff fleshed out a little, so we'll have game-generated history behind whether or not dorfs know about the underworld. Or something else to do for mummies beyond getting awoken randomly and then running over the green hills cursing things.

For the new demons creating new goblin civs, is it planned to have that happen in post worldgen background sim as well. That is, if a player fort fails due breaching hell, will we see the consequences once we have a new fort, or will this be a bit too much for this release?
Logged
Stonesense Grim Dark 0.2 Alternate detailed and darker tiles for stonesense. Now with all ores!

Death Dragon

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2092 on: May 23, 2019, 09:48:50 am »

Not sure if one of these has been asked already:

You said the new intelligent zombie can "can retain much of their old identity". What part of their old personality is missing exactly? Their memories and relationships?

Can necromancers revive intelligent beings as a "good" deed? (For example, reuniting old family members or helping with a murder case.) Or is that more of a magic update thing and beyond the scope of the current update?

Can a mummy be appeased by delivering the lost artifact back to it?
Logged

thvaz

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2093 on: May 23, 2019, 10:14:04 am »

It would be nice if Toady spent some time improving vampires and werecreatures this cycle. Werecreatures are particularly problematic, as they just flee towns and rampage at full moons, doing nothing and being no menace or challenge while at normal form.
Logged

PlumpHelmetMan

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2094 on: May 23, 2019, 11:04:34 am »

He's already hinted at vampires at least being a candidate, so I'm optimistic about there being some improvements.
Logged
It's actually pretty terrifying to think about having all of your fat melt off into grease because you started sweating too much.

therahedwig

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
    • wolthera.info
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2095 on: May 23, 2019, 11:25:51 am »

Well, vampires can now promise vampirism, right? And they already did culty stuff in adventure mode, though I've never come across a vampire cult in the recent version, and according to posts on the adventure mode forum the inclusion of worldgen inquisitions to ensure big towns would be a thing has made them a lot rarer. So maybe they'll be a bit bigger this time around, together with the proper cults :)
Logged
Stonesense Grim Dark 0.2 Alternate detailed and darker tiles for stonesense. Now with all ores!

PlumpHelmetMan

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2096 on: May 23, 2019, 11:30:52 am »

Of course, it's a bit more difficult to predict what'll be done with werebeasts this cycle (if anything). I certainly hope there'll be some work done at least.
Logged
It's actually pretty terrifying to think about having all of your fat melt off into grease because you started sweating too much.

thvaz

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2097 on: May 23, 2019, 12:48:21 pm »

It is a pity Toady never got around to implement all the undeads he had planned back when he did vampires, werewolves, night trolls, mummies and ghosts. There was some really cool ones, like revenants.
Logged

EternalCaveDragon

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2098 on: May 23, 2019, 01:08:46 pm »

Going off of the latest dev log, would it be correct to assume that forming alliances as a response to a particularly evil threat will also occur in response to modded in entities that fit that criteria as well? I do hope it is, it'd immerse modded in entities much more into modded worlds if they can interact just like the vanilla entities can with the new update.
Logged

voliol

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2099 on: May 23, 2019, 01:20:06 pm »

It is a pity Toady never got around to implement all the undeads he had planned back when he did vampires, werewolves, night trolls, mummies and ghosts. There was some really cool ones, like revenants.

*hasn't yet gotten around - remember the myths&magics update comes right after the big wait, and even if they aren't all included in that they have a chance of being implemented alongside tangentially related features, like the upcoming intelligent undead.
Pages: 1 ... 138 139 [140] 141 142 ... 162