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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 446495 times)

Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2100 on: May 23, 2019, 04:15:46 pm »

Going off of the latest dev log, would it be correct to assume that forming alliances as a response to a particularly evil threat will also occur in response to modded in entities that fit that criteria as well? I do hope it is, it'd immerse modded in entities much more into modded worlds if they can interact just like the vanilla entities can with the new update.
Devblog implies it's an alliance against any runaway Ethic:Kill_Neutral:Required civ. Should be easy enough to apply to mods.
(Although a little limiting. Means it may not be possible to see alliances against runaway "won't kill you on-sight, but still wants to take over the world" civs).
« Last Edit: May 23, 2019, 04:21:46 pm by Shonai_Dweller »
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Bimbus

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2101 on: May 23, 2019, 07:45:08 pm »

With the Dwarves being able to breach the Underworld, will Adamantite finally be used in worldgen?
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Enemy post

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2102 on: May 23, 2019, 10:24:07 pm »

Will the mummies' curses be changed now that they can leave their tombs without the player's prompting?
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2103 on: May 23, 2019, 10:54:41 pm »

Will the mummies' curses be changed now that they can leave their tombs without the player's prompting?
And if not, will they curse other histfigs they come across who survive the encounter?
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2104 on: May 24, 2019, 04:54:57 am »

Will the mummies' curses be changed now that they can leave their tombs without the player's prompting?
And if not, will they curse other histfigs they come across who survive the encounter?

In the development log they slaughtered and ressurected the entire town rather than cursed a few, so it might be reserved for the artifact thief that they never managed to find in the end. possibly.
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GoblinCookie

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2105 on: May 24, 2019, 10:24:57 am »

It sounds like folks only form alliances against those who are Kill Neutral Required.  Does that mean that goblins will never ally with other races to stop the zombie invasion because goblin civs will not ally with other races to stop another goblin civilization taking over the world? Would two goblin civilizations ally against a zombie invasion?
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2106 on: May 24, 2019, 02:45:36 pm »

It sounds like folks only form alliances against those who are Kill Neutral Required.  Does that mean that goblins will never ally with other races to stop the zombie invasion because goblin civs will not ally with other races to stop another goblin civilization taking over the world? Would two goblin civilizations ally against a zombie invasion?
And would that result in necromancers forming alliances when goblins start to take over the world...?
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Beag

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2107 on: May 25, 2019, 08:42:47 pm »

1. With the new geographical effects necromancers have in the upcoming update if a player necromancer makes a camp and collects enough undead minions can they cause a region to turn into it's evil version?
2. Since the new intelligent undead are technically sentient if a player adventurer gets killed and then raised back to life as an intelligent undead will we be able to play as them again if we select play as a specific creature reentering adventure mode?
3. Will player necromancers be able to create intelligent undead and if so how much of a corpse is required for it? For example could we make an intelligent zombie severed head?
4. Who controls intelligent undead if their necromancer master is slain? Do they become free willed undead?
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2108 on: May 26, 2019, 04:15:01 am »

1. With the new geographical effects necromancers have in the upcoming update if a player necromancer makes a camp and collects enough undead minions can they cause a region to turn into it's evil version?
2. Since the new intelligent undead are technically sentient if a player adventurer gets killed and then raised back to life as an intelligent undead will we be able to play as them again if we select play as a specific creature reentering adventure mode?
3. Will player necromancers be able to create intelligent undead and if so how much of a corpse is required for it? For example could we make an intelligent zombie severed head?
4. Who controls intelligent undead if their necromancer master is slain? Do they become free willed undead?


1. Players don't currently have proper ownership of towers to facilitate that, as the new data bits being added to necro towers seem to indicate that they are the source, so this will probably always be the result of a NPC rather than a player necromancer.

2. Similar to other resurrection questions, i wouldn't think a creature that can't act on its full free will (to bend to you the player's imposed will) would be playable by itself even if its selectable, in all likelyhood it'll be greyed out from selection.

I wouldn't know where to start to answer the remaining two questions, they're that specific only Toady could reply, as id only be able to hazard a guess that intelligent undead have enough components to dissappear amongst refugees to live a quiet life milking cows at the disdain of villagers like the recent undead gorlak in the devlog who became captured and integrated. And that just a rolling head is not probably the kind of thing a necromancer wants to lead their armies so they pick out one that's not too rotten and disfigured.
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GoblinCookie

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2109 on: May 26, 2019, 06:27:53 am »

It sounds like folks only form alliances against those who are Kill Neutral Required.  Does that mean that goblins will never ally with other races to stop the zombie invasion because goblin civs will not ally with other races to stop another goblin civilization taking over the world? Would two goblin civilizations ally against a zombie invasion?
And would that result in necromancers forming alliances when goblins start to take over the world...?

Indeed.
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2110 on: May 26, 2019, 07:56:44 am »

I think [KILL_NEUTRAL:REQUIRED] ethic is being taken slightly out of proportion regarding the context, as its a pretty simple trigger elves into attacking if pressed with charges of plant/animal ethic abuses in which to stomp some medium sized human civ somewhere like they do most of the time being the easiest to offend in the game.

The diametric differences between the entities [babysnatcher group hostility etc or imbalanced values and ethics] are probably more of a foundation why people would single out "kill neutral" civs than anything hardcoded to only ally against those groups. Maybe Toady attributed it without clarity of greater subtle context simply because it was a shared trait between the civs being attacked? im not sure.

If alliances can be tenous at times between our own 'side' of humans elves and dwarves, then its probably going to be just as strained between necromancers and "enemy" civs like goblins (and whatever else the player mods in with the intention to make this friction and give them company on their lonely side of the fence)
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2111 on: May 26, 2019, 04:40:25 pm »

I think [KILL_NEUTRAL:REQUIRED] ethic is being taken slightly out of proportion regarding the context, as its a pretty simple trigger elves into attacking if pressed with charges of plant/animal ethic abuses in which to stomp some medium sized human civ somewhere like they do most of the time being the easiest to offend in the game.

The diametric differences between the entities [babysnatcher group hostility etc or imbalanced values and ethics] are probably more of a foundation why people would single out "kill neutral" civs than anything hardcoded to only ally against those groups. Maybe Toady attributed it without clarity of greater subtle context simply because it was a shared trait between the civs being attacked? im not sure.

If alliances can be tenous at times between our own 'side' of humans elves and dwarves, then its probably going to be just as strained between necromancers and "enemy" civs like goblins (and whatever else the player mods in with the intention to make this friction and give them company on their lonely side of the fence)
Or maybe he said it because that's what he meant to say.
Happens sometimes.

Babysnatcher and Item_thief don't make a civ require the killing of neutrals. That's what Kill_Neutral:Required does.

Hi, just to clarify, by "requires the killing of neutrals", did you mean civs (including zombies) which have the tag "Ethic:Kill_Neutral:Required" or something else?
« Last Edit: May 26, 2019, 04:59:55 pm by Shonai_Dweller »
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2112 on: May 27, 2019, 04:56:26 pm »

Two in a row, sorry...

Could necromancer evil-biome spread be moddable at all for those with custom secrets mods and so on (spread of savagery, different site type spreads evil, etc)? Or has it been made in a way very specific to Necromancers and Tower sites?
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2113 on: May 28, 2019, 03:49:24 am »

Two in a row, sorry...

Could necromancer evil-biome spread be moddable at all for those with custom secrets mods and so on (spread of savagery, different site type spreads evil, etc)? Or has it been made in a way very specific to Necromancers and Tower sites?
There is the option of editing the previous post to add stuff, rather than make a new one with an apology...

While only Toady can answer the question, I'd expect it to be a rather specific "hack" as it's going to have to be done again more or less from scratch when spheres and their influences are implemented on a significantly changed foundation.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2114 on: May 28, 2019, 04:55:39 am »

Two in a row, sorry...

Could necromancer evil-biome spread be moddable at all for those with custom secrets mods and so on (spread of savagery, different site type spreads evil, etc)? Or has it been made in a way very specific to Necromancers and Tower sites?
There is the option of editing the previous post to add stuff, rather than make a new one with an apology...

While only Toady can answer the question, I'd expect it to be a rather specific "hack" as it's going to have to be done again more or less from scratch when spheres and their influences are implemented on a significantly changed foundation.
Not being familiar with clever forum options, I didn't want to risk sending an alert to FantatiscDorf that I'd added to our riveting discussion only to have him plunge into despair at the realization that I'd added unrelated drivel. Happens more than you think...

Yeah, think it's more likely a hack than a future-proof mechanic. Doesn't hurt to ask though.
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