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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 436954 times)

Nahere

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2280 on: July 31, 2019, 03:42:52 pm »

Will summoned creatures count towards a secret holders ability to build a tower, or is that still just raised dead?
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Toady One

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2281 on: August 01, 2019, 02:11:38 am »

Quote from: FantasticDorf
If such a scenario did occur with freedom to write demons on file (at own risk obviously), would we see mainstream integration of tags like [DEMON] on lesser creatures such as fire imps with a bit more context on what defines a demonic leader vs small fry like them by using [POWER] on file, versus other definitions of player created ambient wildlife and intelligent races  that may be demonic themselves?

voliol: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7990503#msg7990503

Yeah, I haven't gone back to the fire imp, but it's not unreasonable, assuming they are more demonic than magma-oriented, which isn't something we thought very deeply about.

Quote from: FrankVill
If I understood it well, Dwarf Fortress is currently "three-games-in-one", because each one of them has different mechanisms. For implementing the new villain features, you begun to modify worldgen in first place, after that you'll change some adventure mode things and in last place you'll do the same in fortress mode.
However, I suppose in th future "three games" could melt in one and you could modify anything in worldgen that would make changes directly into adventure and fortress modes (it would be ideal).
So, these are my cuestions:
In what degree are the three games currently connected at the development level?
What elements of the world generation could be reflected in both modes automatically after their modification?
And is it possible to achieve a definitive fusion that could in a way facilitate your work?

PatrikLundell: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7991433#msg7991433
FrankVill (op): http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7991727#msg7991727
PlumpHelmetMan: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7991885#msg7991885

Yeah, they are separate for some core reasons, but there's already a lot of cross-over, and new sorts of modes or half-modes might happen in the future that feel like they are further blending the lines, whether that's more passage of time and the control of more people in adventure mode, or a deity sort of mode that feels more like influencing legends/active-world than playing a fort or adv.  Right now that would just be cursing people (or selecting die roll outcomes), which would be amusing but limited, but the possibilities are going to just keep coming, and turning my own crufty 'world debug' mode into a deity game is not all that complicated, aside from adding more things to do and making the world interesting to visit.  Something like the return of schedules etc. feels semi-necessary, because people really do just do nothing most of the time, and it would be fairly boring to drop in on them, or at least strange.

Quote from: Felblood
1.Is unlocking hidden legends still going to be one of the ways that you expect players to measure progression?

2. Is there ever going to be an option to hide only part of the legends?

Currently, I have to choose between knowing where every secret artifact was stashed, versus not even knowing if my native civ is at war with anyone.

I can see a number of ways to come at this, from hiding any secret legends and those over 100 years old, to just randomly hiding 50% of all legends data, so players have something to unlock, while still being able to somewhat get their bearings.

Shonai_Dweller: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7993594#msg7993594

There was that distant time when legends mode was going to be about the information you've uncovered in all of your games, but it's really moved away from that - and the volume of information is so large now (and mostly uninteresting by itself) that that seems fine.  However, when we get to the origin of the world and the big ticket secrets, that seems like something we'll definitely be doing again.  For all of the other little secrets, yeah, I dunno.  There's a lot of stuff you kind of shouldn't know now, concerning plots and so forth, but legends mode doesn't read well without them.  It might be something more like letting you look at a sort of legends mode from the other modes, with only the things you should know, which I think was always in the cards but has some difficulties in terms of information tracking.

Quote from: ZM5
This brings to mind a question - will non-animal zombies be able to take commands now as well? In order for them to grab and use weapons, armor, etc.

They don't currently, though it is a weird gray area until we get better magic foundations in and I'm not sure how it'll turn out even in the short term, if more tweaks happen.

Quote from: Real_bang
Can we pet the intelligent undead that we raise aswell?

I don't think so, but I haven't tried.

Quote from: voliol
Will random (possibly recruitable) NPCs have mounts/pets now, or is that just for the adventurer party members? Will it be possible to assign/give mounts to your party members?

I haven't changed more broadly who has them, nor done additional companion stuff with them.  There's a ton of stuff to do there, but I'm not sure what I'll get to now for this time.

Quote from: Eric Blank
Can intelligent undead raised by necromancers end up in romantic or friendly relationships with other people around them?

It would be hilarious if a mortal npc attempted to flirt with the undead, only to realize their mistake too late, or the undead got outed because someone tried to grab their hand and realized they're dead cold

is the petting interaction just a bp_bump interaction available to humanoids by default? Or is there something new or special about it, like an emotional response from either the petter or the pettee?

I don't recall if romance is specifically off limits to them (there is probably a zombie check which might hit them), but the rest should be good.

I don't have a specific emotional reaction for the pettee/petter or anything that distinguishes it yet, but it's only a matter of time.  It was life-affirming to see my other party members petting the party pets right when I started.

Quote from: Witty
How exactly does a historical figure choose to divorce their spouse in worldgen? Is it based on their current relationship 'status', civilization ethics, general personality, or something else entirely? Are all divorces now 'mutual' in the sense that both parties wish to end the relationship, or is it possible for only one partner to end the marriage?

FantasticDorf: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7996468#msg7996468

It is highly not complicated right now.  There are tens of thousands of them going, so we really just plop them in and out.  The new intrigue relationships occur at a much lower volume (in the hundreds or slightly more), so they can be tracked with the new detail, and the same is true of all fort mode relationships, but I haven't gotten to those yet.

Quote
Quote from: FantasticDorf
Will we be able to form relationships with our animals in adventure mode or are they always serventile for the adventurer mode editor?

For mainly concerns about accidentally escalating combat with your animals accidental or otherwise, maybe with unrelated wild animals like i mentioned above with elves welcoming enough to let us get close.
Quote from: Eric Blank
This is also relevant to me. I created "familiars" for my wizards, they're intelligent, and the wizards relationship with their familiar is important i.e. it would be a disaster if they got into a no-yield fight. Or if that bug about starting a fight again immediately after agreeing to end one isn't fixed.

On a related note, can intelligent creatures be used as mounts if they have the tags and are, like, amiable towards the person mounting them? I.e. my familiar has a transformation into a mountable form, retaining their intelligence. Will the game balk at my silliness?

I don't quite understand the first question.  If you select a pet in the character generation screen, it has a pet relationship, like the ones from fort mode.  Regarding the intelligent party members, that might be more appropriate as an actual party member?  Though I agree that any weird conflict behavior should be cleaned up.  I haven't brought myself to attacking my own test pets yet.

I don't think it'll let you ride intelligent things because they aren't tame in the technical flag sense.  Hmm, maybe having "MOUNT" or "MOUNT_EXOTIC" should be sufficient for companions/party members.  Although this makes me curious why I was even able to ride my undead mount.  Perhaps the flag carried over after the raise?  I will note it down.

Quote from: Criperum
Will linux version of df be available on stream?

therahedwig: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7995993#msg7995993

Yeah, I'm not committing on day-one linux or Mac until I'm much further down the line, since I need to see what happens with the graphics and other updates.  There might be unexpected problems I'm not equipped to handle.

Quote
Quote from: zakarum
With the upcoming "interrogations" to deal with villainous plots, will the player and the AI:

1) Be able to interrogate or "test" (such as a cut to see if it bleeds or even touch to see if its warm) prisoners they suspect of being vampires/undead? In the past you mention the intelligent undead could be captured and if freed, they'd carry on living as normal but they would eventually flee when people start noticing they don't age.
2) If 1 turns out to be true, will civs finally get a way of getting rid of the undead/vampires, such as burning them at the stake? AFAIK the only thing that happens now is that people get suspicious and they flee, but that's it.
3) Since assassinations can happen in player-led forts and since capture and interrogation of agents will be a thing, will we be possible to capture unconscious enemies? Think of an assassination that goes bad: the assassin turns into an invader, the alarm is sound, a military squad would rush and get to the assassin. Right now they would chop them to pieces, but I imagine what we are aiming at is at having him disabled and captured.
4) If 3 is true, will we be able to capture disabled soldiers of invading forces (such as goblins)? Any plans for that (interrogations, etc) if that's the case?
5) Finally, still related to 3, will there be an "alarm" system now? What I mean is, if the assassin succeeds in killing his target but doesn't sneak fast enough, someone discovers the body. The player will be alerted, like when dwarfs are found drained out of blood, but will the dwarfs try and find some authority to tell it, which can then try and find the culprit, or it will all be left for the player?
Quote from: PatrikLundell
We already have means to capture enemies (cage traps), so the question [#4] really becomes two:
a) Will we get fortress (and adventurer) means to subdue enemies for capture as an alternative to attack to kill?
Apart from capture for interrogation, such an option might allow you to capture tantrumers for expulsion (or performance troupe enemy civ effective spies for interrogation).
b) Will interrogation of captured enemies have a chance to provide any information that can be acted on?
(Such as e.g. something that provides us with an assassination target or other information that might be used in the conflict). Most of the time I'd expect you won't get anything beyond their civ and the settlement they assembled in, plus the name of their [usually completely expendable] leader of the attack if you'd be able to interrogate them, though. Grunts simply aren't told much.

zakarum (op): http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7996937#msg7996937
ZM5: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7996938#msg7996938
zakarum (op): http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7997243#msg7997243

This is basically all stuff that we are deciding right now as we head toward the adventurer investigation stage.  So I don't yet have anything to offer here, other than that a lot of this is sitting on the plate and we're not going to get to all of it, but we'll very likely get to a portion of it.  Almost certainly you'll be able to capture and interrogate even traditionally kill-on-site hostiles in fort mode, and use the information provided, dwarf mode counterintelligence being one of the ways the fort-mode player will be able to interact with the new systems.  But yeah, away from the plots, just with regular enemies, I expect we'll be more in the territory of witnesses to random events and so forth, plot tidbits at random, that kind of thing.  I don't have specifics, as this is the part of adv mode investigation and what happens there is going to determine more or less what non-plot people have to offer in fort mode (whether they are captured, or just travelers you question, or whatever.)

Quote from: PlumpHelmetMan
Will the Steam version come with any sort of in-game tutorial? Just asking since I know that's something a lot of people have wanted out of DF ever since its inception, and a commercial release just seems to me like a good occasion to finally implement one. Maybe you're still undecided either way at this point, which is fine.

Manveru TaurŽnťr: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7996843#msg7996843
PlumpHelmetMan (op): http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7996846#msg7996846

Quote from: zakarum
1)Will the new aquifer changes means it could be viable not to use constructed walls but instead construct a drainage system of grates and underground tunnels that naturally drain the aquifer somewhere else? Or will the water flow be too much for dwarfs to go through?
2)Will water someday seep through constructed walls, albeit at a slower rate the more walls there are between the aquifer/water source and the walls, making drainage systems for mines an actual necessity?
3)Will different kinds of rocks have different rates of permeability, affecting the speed that water seeps through the aquifer, or it will always be a fixed rate?

PatrikLundell: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7997291#msg7997291
Whatsifsowhatsit: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7997299#msg7997299
zakarum (op): http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7997324#msg7997324
PatrikLundell: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7997366#msg7997366

1) Yeah, you can do this.  You have to eventually get the water out to, say, the caverns or wherever, because it does fill up confined spaces over time.  But a diligent mining crew can take care of it.  You can't just leave it alone for any period of time though, so you have to start with a plan, I think, if you're not going to construct walls.  In my very limited experience with it, if you set a miner working, they'll be able to outpace the flow of water easily enough for you to get the water shunted off to the cavern, but it is a little project for them, as relying simply on one vertical tunnel can work but is also hazardous, since it doesn't take long for the water to pool at the bottom to 4 or higher.  If there's a bit of adaptation and the rare drowning for beginners, I think that's about right.  Hopefully we home in on that.  Though perhaps even then the loss of a pick is harsh for new people.  It does still pop up the aquifer warning on embark, he he he.
2) If we can get around the annoyances (as PatrikLundell enumerated), this seems reasonable enough.
3) Ideally in the future, yeah, though right now it is very simple and has nothing to do with that.

Quote from: Hellrazor
Do you have plans to add food preserving to the game?

DG: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7997529#msg7997529

More generally, yes, variously, but no time table.

Quote from: Death Dragon
Can zombies raised by a player necromancer mount on a horse (or zombie horse)?

When a necromancer gets kicked out of a site, can they migrate to a player fort?

I heard that the soundtrack for the steam version is already done. Do you know if we can get to listen to some songs from it before the steam release, looking at how long that's still gonna take, or is that just Kitfox' decision?

Is there any chance players will get access to some of your DF debugging tools? They would probably be very useful for modders. Also kinda related to this, being able to take control of any historic figure in adventure mode would be really nice for roleplaying.

Edit: Just found someone wondering about this on reddit:
Does the aquifer speed change also affect the rate at which they are able to absorb water?

Mounts:  Nope.  They don't think to do it.  At least, I don't think they do.

Migrants:  That seems possible.  There could be some archaic check against it, but they were much more eager to leave their home sites immediately before, so it might not have come up.  Though I do recall there were some town clutches of them even in the older versions.

Soundtrack:  That's all up to them, and I think it'll be happening later in the process.

Tools:  As new modes and things go in, the god-like world debug mode might become available.  It's not really ready for that though, since it's very haphazard with the usual checks/etc. itself, since making it playable was not the concern.

Aquifer:  I haven't changed anything about aquifer absorb rates, though I did see that or a similar comment at the time and made a note.  Though I don't really remember the code in question and am not sure what'll end up happening yet.

Quote from: Greendogo
When adding Tavern games, will you be adding board games as a subgenre? I'd love to get some games of Settlers of Catan in on my Dwarven carved bone set.

I'm not sure I'll be able to handle the proc AI if the games get too complicated, but we've noted down several branches of boardgames, from the racing games to the chess variants and so forth, and we'll see what plays at all and what doesn't and how far are variants and generation can spread practically.  The AI doesn't have to be good or even passable, but it has to be feel a certain way, and it's not easy to do even/especially a beginner AI on certain types of games.

Quote from: ZM5
Question about the "summon" interaction that was mentioned - how will they work exactly? Will the summoned creatures innately spawn with armor/clothes (if intelligent, anyway) and will they be loyal to the caster who summoned them? Would there also be a possible time limit on how much they linger, as well as a limit on how many could be summoned at a time?

They don't start with items.  They don't have a loyalty either; the necromancer can cheat here because the night creatures all get along with each other to some extent, so the necromancer simply isn't targeted.  There is a time limit and a cooldown (the old WAIT_PERIOD style cooldown.)  It doesn't take a number-to-summon parameter currently, but the effect could be copied to increase the number.

Quote from: Fatace
"Evil that spread now fades away over many years if there's no new activity in the region. The primordial evil areas don't fade. Certain demons can now spread evil from their towers (or disaster forts), and the properties of the evil areas are related to the spheres of the demon. That is, a blight demon might kill vegetation, while a deformity demon can spread evil creature populations and wormy eyeball grass and so forth. "

With that part of the blog mentioned above, will there be tags related to the ability for demons to spread their evil from their towers/forts? Like a tag that allows/disallows a demons that controls a specific, and custom Dark Fortress using Race from spreading evil?

And with these new "abilities", does that mean theres more to play with for custom secrets?

There are new interaction effects.  I didn't want to get into the specific mechanics of evil spreading, since it's bound to be rewritten when we do the map and magic stuff, but there is a simple caste tag for it.  To avoid processor trouble, it only works for civ-leaders though.  The necromancer evil-death spread effect from animation is still hard-coded.
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Toady One

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2282 on: August 01, 2019, 02:11:52 am »

Quote from: PlumpHelmetMan
So what's the deal with these magic divination dice? They certainly sound interesting, but the devlog was a bit vague on the specifics. Maybe you'd care to elaborate a bit on what they are and how they work? Unless it's a surprise, of course.

At the base it's just a random roll for fun-time effect, though we might still slip in a simple prayer-or-offering bit to tip the scales to favorable outcomes.  There are dice, in the shrines, associated to certain deities, and you can pick them up and roll them.  The face (or faces) you get is tied to a table of effects on a per-god basis, and you get one roll per deity per week generally, though the game gives additional information there when that isn't the case.  There are a few more random details in other responses.

Quote from: ZM5
I forgot, regarding the dice - is their cursing going to be a hardcoded thing or will it be possible to add raw-defined boons/curses from them?

There was also the bit about the undead lieutenants having a push-back ability - is that another new interaction function or a non-syndrome dust attack?

There's no way to create a divination set from the raws.  It uses a raw format, but it can't be attached to a historical deity, which is the only way it knows how to work.  Still, at least having a raw format means that all the individual effects are available as usual.

The push back is a new PROPEL_UNIT effect.  There isn't any source point control currently (this is also a problem with some of the older ones - there's a technical targeting issue there I haven't worked through yet), but you can set the force number and target, and the force is applied from the caster toward the target.

Quote from: pikachu17
Is new stuff going into the interaction examples folder?
Are only demons able to spread evil from towers, or raws creature be given the power to do so?
Are undead lieutenant powers also raws-able?
Apparently dice can curse you into a different form. What types of creature can you turn into?

Folder: I have a note to that effect, yeah.
Spread: There's a tag for it.
Powers: All their powers are standard raws, yeah.
Curse: That particular curse turns you into any mundane non-predatory non-vermin creature.  There may be other kinds.  My only issue has been that some of the larger creatures are slower than humans, which makes them annoying to play.  I might have to make a speed check parameter or something.

Quote
Quote from: Rumrusher
kinda worried if the modding potential for creatures that use the bogeyman token is now shoved to one region and or one randomly generated creature that needs to show up?

though regional/timed summoning interactions seems like a fun concept where creatures can just pop up out of thin air. really don't know about the bogeyman changes given uhh on one hand it might make playable bogeymen either a straight up raw dump custom creature file or dfhack thing and not entity animal token domestication thing the site just does, but having said region where the 'cackling' summons and kills them be in one area means if someone gets past the hurdle of making them playable in the new update they won't have to fear the night twice as harder than a normal adventurer
Quote from: voliol
Will the new changes to boogeymen that restrict them to certain evil biomes affect all creatures with the [BOOGEYMAN] token? Or just the generated ones? Will we be able to choose whether to restrict a modded creature, and if so, are there any further moddable options (restricting to only GOOD biomes, only biomes connected to a certain sphere etc.)?

Rumrusher (op): http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8000958#msg8000958
FantasticDorf: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8000982#msg8000982
Rumrusher (op): http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8000998#msg8000998

Regarding your top linked comment there, entire evil regions that have nothing to do with demons can still have them, and even in the evil regions with demons, there's plenty of real estate away from the towers.  But more broadly speaking, certainly the new system does limit their breadth now.  So that is changed, and there aren't new options to place creatures in broader regions.  The 'primordial evil' regions don't even have sphere links, so it doesn't use the nightmare sphere as it does with demons.  There's just a straight up 10% chance for starter evil regions to have bogeymen.  Players really hated them.  Like almost everybody, and they did make trying to play as a traditional single-character RPG basically impossible or at least silly.  So they have been relegated away to just a few places now.  Certainly more customization would be cool, though.

Quote from: Death Dragon
Now that bogeymen are restricted to specific regions, are you going to make it possible for them to show up during fort mode?

Do you plan on making these dice based divinations possible to happen in player forts, or is that pushing too far into the actual magic update for now?

Nope, that's not really related to region restriction.  Though certain summoning powers will make them show up.

Yeah, probably not yet.  The blessings and curses aren't as related to the life of the fort dwarf.  Though at some point we'll want to continue unifying stuff.

Quote from: EternalCaveDragon
With these changes to demons and goblins civs, will it (soon) be possible for playing as adventurers from goblin civilizations without modding? Or are there some other things that are a priority before that? Cause I'm at least partly wanting to make some adventurers who serve the demons leading the goblins with the new plotting system.

Any ideas what effects on the environment the various demonic spheres will have aside from those listed in the devlog? Anything that would be particularly drastic? Would a demon with the sphere of torture have a regional effect of inflicting constant (but just manageable) pain? Would the domain of a demon of lies whisper falsehoods into the inhabitants' ears? Will misery demons cause depression? Anything like these?

EDIT: A couple more questions:

With the expansion to polymorph-like abilities mentioned in the devlog, are these specifically expansions to transformations? And if so, what sort of changes are you planning on?

This one is more about organized religions and the prevalence of various religions in towns. But is there going to be a changed or added personality facet that influences the zealousness of a historical figure's/post-gen figure's beliefs? Or is it still going to be up to chance that a certain person has a certain level of belief?

Gob-civ adv: There's still not much to do there, but yeah, once we have adv mode villainy done (with the possibility of taking orders, though we haven't committed to that yet), we'll be a bit closer, and when we get to the army stuff that was possible before the Big Wait (but after the Steam/itch release), there might be enough.

Region effects: We haven't made new regional effects at all, but of course there are endless possibilities.  We'll probably wait until we get to the map rewrite and the more broad magical lands before doing them, though obviously that hasn't stopped us from playing around a bit, so who knows?

Polymorph: That one didn't require any changes, if I recollect.  It just uses a body transformation on a timer.

Religion and personality: It's still random, though some of the responses to persecution and the likelihood of initiating one take personality into account.

Quote from: Egan_BW
Can a particularly poor roll of the dice in attempting divination curse the adventurer permanently, or is it all temporary effects?

The regular bad rolls are all temporary currently, but you can really screw up if you don't treat the process respectfully.  This will be clear before it happens.

Quote from: Shonai_Dweller
What are some of the lucky dice roll blessings that you mention in the Steam update?

Item?  Pet?  Healing?  Are those new interaction effects?

Quote from: Rumrusher
is there anything in the future for cavern exploring for adventurers? since all this talk about surface problems remind me that there no incentive to draw folks to the caverns in the recent update.

I'm holding off on any of that until the map rewrite.  I want to do more with it, but the way the maps are stored makes it hard to get beyond isolated sites.

Quote from: FantasticDorf
Will we have more UI warning information and pop'ups for players when embarking upon a corrupted land of what kind of sphere it is? Especially since in theory a fortress close to a tomb could come under range of a corruption spread offsite probably needs to know, if there aren't any noticable effects if reprecussions come up later. Like blight spheres killing crops etc.

This might have amusing/immersive implications when the creatures in [FORCED_SPHERE:DEATH] (as a example of explicitly needing a sphere instead of primordially existing, and receding when the corruption goes away) start appearing around necromancer towers and mummy crypts rather than explicitly just death-demon towers.

There's nothing like that at this point, but crops are safe currently.  Later it'll matter more I suspect.

Quote from: Beag
1. Will other backgrounds besides hearth person in adventure mode confer a special status in your starting site?
2. How many of the background skills will eventually be usable in adventure mode?
3. Will demon towers exist for all spheres for purposes of region changing or just certain spheres? If only a few which ones.
4. Will our player adventurers be able to use magic divination dice?

ZM5: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8001216#msg8001216

1. That's the only one.  We've really just expanded out the peasant options so far, though we'll possibly do a bit more with it before it's out.
2. Eventually?  We're hoping to get all of them in when I do the adventurer skills stuff that's been rotting away on dev forever.  In the nearer term, I'm not sure, but probably not many.
3. Death, blight, disease, deformity and nightmares only, for now.  Adding the tag to creatures without one of these currently does nothing - the evil won't even spread.  You have to pick your poison so it knows what to do.  Many demons do not currently spread a region for this reason; even in my ideal game, this would be true, since some of them want to keep a lower profile or it just isn't their style, though of course we want to have various effects for all of them over time.
4. Yeah.  Only them, actually!  Nobody else is yet so foolish or faithful, mostly because they don't have use for certain of the blessings, but that'll change as the system expands and townspeople have more to do at some distant point.  Perhaps your non-party companions will get there first, though not even that happens currently.

Quote from: Eric Blank
Do or can summoned creatures have souls? Is it possible to summon something that becomes a permanent historical figure, talks to people etc without causing crashes?(a problem Ive faced with reanimated intelligent body parts)

They are generated as normal, so they all do, yeah.  If the summon doesn't have a timer, they are just a person/animal/etc., though they don't have cultural links and so forth.  Though of course there could/will be various issues to work through, it isn't the same as reanimation.

Quote from: Egan_BW
Will there be a skill associated with Divination, or maybe some other barrier to entry like needing to get someone to tell you how to do it?

There's nothing like that currently.  Generally, it's just sort of strange and an odd cross-cultural element which'll likely undergo serious revisions as we head into and then out of the magic stuff.  I agree overall that there should be some cultural learning associated to it, whether that's like the musical knowledge or whatever else.  But we might not see that until we get to the customs stuff in the broadest sense, though certainly we'll get a bit before that with the magic traditions etc. etc.

Quote from: therahedwig
How much effect do the gods themselves have on the divination? Or are their uh... structures still too barebones to do anything there? Are we also going to see stuff like card-reading, crystal gazing and entrails reading(proper necromancy :D), will necromancers in specific do necromancy? Do you have any plans for divinations themselves to actually predict the future, or will they primarily be communications?

For some reason when discussing future-reading magic I always imagined trances, so the dice caught me off guard :D

Oh, oh, oh, can histfigs observe and tell each other about divinations/game outcomes? Because a lot of stories start with an (un)lucky roll of the dice :D Did you manage to have histfigs themselves be capable of rolling dice?

This is just the starting point with divination, so the dice are what we have.  Of course it's very strange and there are too many dice and we'd like to diversify the methods, but stuff mostly begins this way, and it's fine.  Though we're pretty close to doing some sphere-based stuff with the divinations themselves.  There's almost enough effects for it, and we're still deciding if we want to split them up yet or not.  Sort of a flavor vs. uniformity conflict with no proper near-term answer and which won't matter as more stuff is added (when splitting up by sphere becomes obvious.)

Ha ha, yeah, I was just looking at that Hellenic/Ptolemaic d20 right before I was doing shrines.  Things often go like that.  Would have been something else if I had been looking elsewhere (like the Liver of Piacenza; haruspicy is tempting with all the livestock organs we have available), but we'll eventually get to multiple methods.

Regarding necromancy and trances, I should tease a day in advance that ghosts have not wholly escaped our attention.

As with many things, your companions and others are completely ignorant of their surroundings when it comes to divination.  Even if you turn into a cow or something.  This will change, but I'm not sure when.  Their awareness is such a large subject and easy to avoid, though it is important, eventually, to get to that stuff.

Quote from: ZM5
Are there any plans to change how ranged weapons work in adventure mode and in the raws before the big wait? By that I mean, being able to change the firing/reload speed on an individual basis, or being able to aim for specific body parts.

It's not specifically in the pre Big Wait notes, but I think there's a possiblity during the strength that runs through the Steam/itch changes over to the army stuff and other matter that combat could see a look.  It's the sort of thing that could spring up with adv mode medical as well.

Quote from: Real_bang
1. What if npc or player steals the divination dice/s from shrine? Will they get cursed if they wont return the dice/s in some days later?
2. Do divination dice's count as artifacts?

1. It doesn't care about that yet, though it might before release.  I still have to set up a zone.
2. Nope.  Any dice with the proper improvement can be used, but there's no way to make them yet.

Quote from: Noventrice
What sort of activities prevent evil from fading from an area? Is it only evil activities such as evil clouds/rain? Could I theoretically be in an area as it becomes more good or does my presence there count as activity?

PlumpHelmetMan: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8001860#msg8001860

Yeah, just activities that literally would increase the evil of the region (raising the dead, being an appropriate demon/tagged ruler.)  If no such activity happens, the evil (slowly) starts to fade.

Quote from: Beakromancer
Will certain megabeasts be able to spread evil regions?

PlumpHelmetMan: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8002370#msg8002370
EternalCaveDragon: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8002420#msg8002420

None of them have the correct tag, nor can they become a civ ruler, which is the other required condition currently.  At some point, I might relax the latter condition, at least for megas, though it wouldn't currently apply to any but certain titans possibly, or forgotten beasts if they count.

Quote from: Shonai_Dweller
Swapping between Hearth person and Peasant is currently the only way to "select" your starting town in Adventurer (it skips to the next random town each time until you get someplace close to where you want to be). Presumably that's no longer functional with the new background profession selection? Will you add a location selection to the new interface? Or do you prefer Adventurers to always start somewhere randomly within their selected civ?

You can select your home town manually now, and it gives a little summary of the population.  If you have multiple party members, then you can start in any one of their home towns.

Quote from: zakarum
Can demons start plots? Will they? If yes, in what conditions? would they have some special advantage to tempt people and make agents?

PlumpHelmetMan: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8003210#msg8003210

They have a few new advantages they share with certain necros that'll come up next log, but mainly, their advantage is being relatively unassailable and having a civilization to call on, with (kidnapped) people from various other places (which already came up for regular infiltration agents/scouts.)  And yeah, many of them are plotters, for the same personality reasons as others, and I think their generated personalities more often put them in that range as well.

Quote from: Beakromancer
Will certain creatures or entities be able to spread good regions?

PlumpHelmetMan: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8003283#msg8003283
EternalCaveDragon: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8003322#msg8003322
feelotraveller: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8003650#msg8003650
DG: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8003664#msg8003664
ZM5: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8003699#msg8003699

It isn't currently part of the tagging.

Quote from: Renarin21
For the Myth and Magic Update, let's say there is a world where humans are created by a precursor race, and worship them. If another race, say the dwarves, are descendants of these precursor gods, will the humans revere dwarves, or generally be more prone to viewing them as religious figures? If humans are unaware of this mythic connection, but then they become aware of it, will their attitude concerning dwarves change?

Ha ha, I have no idea quite yet how all of that is going to work out.  There are going to be lots of strange situations, and just getting the humans to recognize any potential gods, angels or similar beings living among them will be a first step.  Doing attitudes and further degrees of separation would then become possible.  The matter of the revelation of hidden world secrets is part of the idea, whether that's 'research' or something entirely theological or different, and having change in the world because of it, but much like the divination dice, the particular forms we get at first are up for grabs.

Quote from: Pillbo
About the intelligent undead -

Do they look like corpses / talking zombies? If not does that mean you can only raise someone who recently died? Or does the spell repair their body during resurrection?

Could I go as an adventurer to my ruined/retired fort, resurrect all my favorite dwarves and start a fort of semi-immortal undead?

They look however they looked at the time; the syndrome grants them the usual undead sort of immortality, so the state of the body's wounds are not important, though it must be fit for resurrection (which just means it has an upper body that is not missing or pulped.)  The spell does not repair them, which can lead to some unfortunates.  It also leads to the ignorance of their fellow citizens being very strange at times, though world gen does not track rot states carefully for most purposes.  It is tempting to healing them, though I have not yet done this.

I think you could create this fort, yeah, if you manage to integrate into a fort somehow.  I don't remember the retirement rules but they don't seem to care about a lot of things.

Quote from: FantasticDorf
Will there be sphere created semi/mega-beasts where appropriate emerging with the wildlife (within world costing), or will they always be resorted to world generation?

I was kind of hoping to have a greater muck monster for the evil biomes pop up when the conditions were right, or inversely to the quotation, maybe a Phoenix spontaneously appear over rebirth good areas to add some danger setting things on fire with the halves of a roc and a dragon together.

There's nothing like that coming soon.  I suppose that's not exactly correct, as we've added some new bits over the last few days, but it's not exactly a creation of new megabeasts.

Quote from: Nahere
Will summoned creatures count towards a secret holders ability to build a tower, or is that still just raised dead?

Their summoned creatures don't last that long.  Nobody else bothers working either.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2283 on: August 01, 2019, 03:47:51 am »

Thank you!

Follow up to my question about home towns then:

Do all party members have to come from the same civ, or do we get complete control over their origins? If that's possible, do they react well to being at war with each other?
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Nahere

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2284 on: August 01, 2019, 05:29:54 am »

Thanks for the answers Toady!

Do all party members have to come from the same civ, or do we get complete control over their origins? If that's possible, do they react well to being at war with each other?
For the first question:
Quote from: Nahere
Will all members of a starting party have to come from the same entity or will multicultural starting parties be possible?
You can start your party from all over.
For the second, no idea, but I could see it ending poorly depending on the relevant KILL_ENEMY ethics.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2285 on: August 01, 2019, 06:14:12 am »

Thanks for the answers Toady!

Do all party members have to come from the same civ, or do we get complete control over their origins? If that's possible, do they react well to being at war with each other?
For the first question:
Quote from: Nahere
Will all members of a starting party have to come from the same entity or will multicultural starting parties be possible?
You can start your party from all over.
For the second, no idea, but I could see it ending poorly depending on the relevant KILL_ENEMY ethics.
Oh, thanks. Didn't notice that one.
...
Edit

Ah, 2018! That'd be why.  :)
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ZM5

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2286 on: August 01, 2019, 06:21:52 am »

Thanks for the answers!

Regarding the fail-safe checks for the dice, I take it there is also a check in place to ensure a fail roll doesn't result in the adventurer's death because they turn into a fish and air-drown? ;p

On a more serious note, is the time limit for summoned creatures a hardcoded part of the interaction or will that be definable?


zakarum

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2287 on: August 01, 2019, 11:28:15 am »

Thanks for the answers Toady and everyone.

1. Regarding new capturing mechanics, if it makes the cut, are you aiming for it to be broad enough so you can capture other creatures, like wildlife or beast such as dragons? What about titans and megabeasts? If yes how would you handle gigantic beasts or megabeasts such as Bronze Colossi?
2. Will the new capturing mechanics and interrogation system spell an end for the indestructible chains/cages that current exist? Will there be prison breaks with the interrogation part of this update or is that far ahead?
3. Will creatures with magical powers (demons, necromancers) use their powers to further their plots? The classic here would be doing a deal with the devil in exchange for something. But a necromancer could raise an intelligent dead to manipulate/infiltrate somewhere.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2019, 12:07:59 pm by zakarum »
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Death Dragon

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2288 on: August 01, 2019, 02:33:49 pm »

Thanks for the answers, Toady. The teaser about ghosts sounds cool.

With the changes to evil regions, is it now easier to tell if an evil region is a reanimator region or can that still only be found out by making a fort and checking if your butchering refuse comes back to life?

Quote from: Shonai_Dweller
What are some of the lucky dice roll blessings that you mention in the Steam update?
Item?  Pet?  Healing?  Are those new interaction effects?
Does that mean you can get a permanent (?) weapon or pet as a reward from the divination dice rolls, or did you mean you can get a blessing that will make your weapon more effective in combat?
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Inarius

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2289 on: August 01, 2019, 05:13:09 pm »

Thanks Toady !

Quote
You can select your home town manually now, and it gives a little summary of the population.  If you have multiple party members, then you can start in any one of their home towns.

Could it be possible to have a little summary of the population when you get to cities ? Sometimes it's hard to know the "real" size of a city when you are in adventure mode...
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PlumpHelmetMan

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2290 on: August 01, 2019, 06:02:25 pm »

Thanks for the answers Toady, and also for the latest devblog. Got me really hyped!

Is there currently any sort of limitation in place for what percentage of the population necromancers/demons will take to experiment on? I could see quite a few settlements getting pretty weird pretty quickly if the bad guy is just allowed to transform everyone (which would be fun, but might also take away from immersion).
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voliol

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2291 on: August 01, 2019, 07:21:57 pm »

Are the experiment/giant amalgamation type creatures bright red s, the color reserved for "constructed creatures" as stated in that old night creature DF talk? Are intelligent undead bright cyan s?

Good to hear getting the tangents out of your system helped, and that we get quite some goodies out of it.

EternalCaveDragon

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2292 on: August 01, 2019, 07:53:01 pm »

Thanks for the answers Toady, these and the new devlog have cleared things up and gotten me hyped!

With the adventurers as villains content, and the new actions necromancers and demons (with the death sphere I presume) can do in creating experimental creatures and undead types, could player necromancers do the same things when it comes time for adventure mode villainy?
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Immortal-D

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2293 on: August 01, 2019, 08:22:39 pm »

Do you know if the updated menus of the Steam release will include a revamp of the labor interface?  Or will the Steam menus simply look prettier, but function the same?
You mentioned earlier that stress & memory fixes will most likely happen before The Big Wait, but can you say if you'll be able to look at those before Steam release?
« Last Edit: August 12, 2019, 09:40:45 pm by Immortal-D »
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Death Dragon

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2294 on: August 01, 2019, 08:54:09 pm »

Are these summonable "larger, nightmarish beings" basically the typical, random hell dwelling demons, or are they special in some specific way?

With the adventurers as villains content, and the new actions necromancers and demons (with the death sphere I presume) can do in creating experimental creatures and undead types, could player necromancers do the same things when it comes time for adventure mode villainy?
I was just about to ask this, too. Would be pretty nice, but probably too difficult to implement right now, especially because it's still kinda a tangent. Not even sure if these Frankenstein experiments will happen outside of worldgen.
Did Toady ever confirm if player necromancers can summon intelligent undead by the way?

On a more serious note, is the time limit for summoned creatures a hardcoded part of the interaction or will that be definable?[/color]
In the reply, he said: "If the summon doesn't have a timer, they are just a person/animal/etc., though they don't have cultural links and so forth. "
So I guess it might be doable, but who knows.
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