Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 170 171 [172] 173 174 ... 223

Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 873907 times)

FantasticDorf

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2565 on: November 12, 2019, 04:32:58 am »

Mind, I think DerMeister's English isn't good enough for them to be able to look critically enough at their own posts and see that half their point is missing. I am not sure what they can do about that, as I myself was good enough at English once I started posting on internet forums...
No, the quality of the English isn't the issue, as it can usually be understood, but the leaving out most of the information, relying (and failing) on telepathy to bring the context across is.

Dermiester has since been banned thanks to the grateful help of Mr.Adam's, so let us continue with the other points.

Is there a possibility to start a "war" between two vilians? Especially between player-vilian and AI controlled one?

If both are national position holders at a leader level, i guess it woudn't be too hard unless you're just talking about hard rivals in their own gangs mutually on some sort of turf war, depends on the scope of villian plot activities you can undertake such as putting blame on a person or accelerating the plans against each other mutually in adventuremode (we'll see how it manifests when we're at the release)
Logged

Untrustedlife

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
    • My Website
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2566 on: November 12, 2019, 09:51:51 am »

In the upcoming version evil regions can gloriously  spread outwords from necromancer towers. In adventure mode in the current version the player can become a necromancer the player can also use their zombies to build a camp.  So will evil regions spread outwards from these sorts of camps If the player takes some time to build up the zombie population?

A while ago you talked about “really bad things” causing a region to turn evil (whether by sacrificing many creatures with a small age number, or some other terrible catastrophe. Is that still planned and will players be able to do this?
« Last Edit: November 12, 2019, 10:52:07 am by Untrustedlife »
Logged
I am an indie game developer!
My Roguelike on Itch.io with randomly generated creatures!
Roguelegends: Dark Realms
Check out the open source simulation game I am also developing!
Thrive
My website untrustedlife.com

FantasticDorf

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2567 on: November 12, 2019, 10:19:04 am »

In the upcoming version evil regions can gloriously  spread outwords from necromancer towers. In adventure mode the player can become a necromancer the player can also use their zombies to build a camp.  So will evil regions spread outwards from these sorts of camps If the player takes some time to build up the zombie population?

A while ago you talked about “really bad things” causing a region to turn evil (whether by sacrificing many creatures with a small age number, or some other terrible catastrophe. Is that still planned and will players be able to do this?


I don't remember that at all but there's enough talking about curatively fixing things when places become evil (lifting the curse, blessing it, doing stuff) rather than just tolerating it, which at the moment is just limited to killing its source versus the unquellable primordial types. The full harm/heal will probably be bundled together as a feature in the magic arc or sometime after.

Though in hindsight i can probably see the callously pragmatic actions of players creating a lot of ghosts very quickly somehow having a adverse effect beyond just ruining your local reputation to actually make the place cursed. Or housing a cursed artifact made or reclaimed from elsewhere.
Logged

PatrikLundell

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2568 on: November 12, 2019, 11:40:45 am »

In the upcoming version evil regions can gloriously  spread outwords from necromancer towers. In adventure mode in the current version the player can become a necromancer the player can also use their zombies to build a camp.  So will evil regions spread outwards from these sorts of camps If the player takes some time to build up the zombie population?

A while ago you talked about “really bad things” causing a region to turn evil (whether by sacrificing many creatures with a small age number, or some other terrible catastrophe. Is that still planned and will players be able to do this?

I'd expect the spreading of evil from a necro tower to be tied to the tower itself (and it being inhabited by a necro so it's active). If that's the case the question turns into one of whether an adventurer can turn its camp into a "necro tower" or if a necro adventurer can "turn on" a necro tower.
My guess is that the answer to the first question is no for the time being (too far off the center of the current development arc target), with the second one a "maybe" depending on how easy it is for DF to detect the necro's presence and activities.

Regardless, spreading evilness in adventure mode is going to be a rather tedious task given the rate at which it spreads, with the time scale being years for any shift and decades for significant effects to be seen. Sure, a necro has all the time in the world, but the player doesn't. It would actually be more "useful" to turn a player fortress into a "necro tower" when it comes to noticing the spread of evil, but I don't expect that to be possible in the Villains release.

For the really long term evilness spreading purposes you'd want epic time scales, such as a world observation mode where the activated world just continues while the player watches passively (or goes off to do something else, such as catching up on sleep or earn their living), but that's not something that's going to happen in the near term, although the embark time has been DFHacked to allow for that activity to progress much longer that the standard two weeks, but you'd need to make an embark every time you'd want to see what's happened since the last time, as well as to save the progress, and won't see what's happening in between these times.
Logged

Untrustedlife

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
    • My Website
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2569 on: November 12, 2019, 12:37:35 pm »

In the upcoming version evil regions can gloriously  spread outwords from necromancer towers. In adventure mode in the current version the player can become a necromancer the player can also use their zombies to build a camp.  So will evil regions spread outwards from these sorts of camps If the player takes some time to build up the zombie population?

A while ago you talked about “really bad things” causing a region to turn evil (whether by sacrificing many creatures with a small age number, or some other terrible catastrophe. Is that still planned and will players be able to do this?

I'd expect the spreading of evil from a necro tower to be tied to the tower itself (and it being inhabited by a necro so it's active). If that's the case the question turns into one of whether an adventurer can turn its camp into a "necro tower" or if a necro adventurer can "turn on" a necro tower.
My guess is that the answer to the first question is no for the time being (too far off the center of the current development arc target), with the second one a "maybe" depending on how easy it is for DF to detect the necro's presence and activities.

Regardless, spreading evilness in adventure mode is going to be a rather tedious task given the rate at which it spreads, with the time scale being years for any shift and decades for significant effects to be seen. Sure, a necro has all the time in the world, but the player doesn't. It would actually be more "useful" to turn a player fortress into a "necro tower" when it comes to noticing the spread of evil, but I don't expect that to be possible in the Villains release.

For the really long term evilness spreading purposes you'd want epic time scales, such as a world observation mode where the activated world just continues while the player watches passively (or goes off to do something else, such as catching up on sleep or earn their living), but that's not something that's going to happen in the near term, although the embark time has been DFHacked to allow for that activity to progress much longer that the standard two weeks, but you'd need to make an embark every time you'd want to see what's happened since the last time, as well as to save the progress, and won't see what's happening in between these times.

I dont see why this is a thing to worry about, you can just retire your adventurer in his "tower" and play fort mode for awhile then check back later. If you are like me you keep playing in the same world for long periods of time and so do have time to see those changes. It doesnt need to spread from a fort for you to see it. Just from your retired necro,  fort mode is in the same world as adventure mode. (So its no more "useful" for it to spread from a fort or from a player adventurer retired in his "tower")
« Last Edit: November 12, 2019, 12:43:24 pm by Untrustedlife »
Logged
I am an indie game developer!
My Roguelike on Itch.io with randomly generated creatures!
Roguelegends: Dark Realms
Check out the open source simulation game I am also developing!
Thrive
My website untrustedlife.com

Shonai_Dweller

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2570 on: November 12, 2019, 03:12:52 pm »

Since Player Towers is a development item for Mythgen, I wouldn't expect anything in this next release. Camp is a camp, Tower is a tower.
Logged

Shonai_Dweller

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2571 on: November 13, 2019, 09:58:12 pm »

With all this swaying of loyalties going on, have you considered the reverse? Time and again in fantasy fiction, the "infiltrator" makes friends, falls in love and finds his/her loyalties to the Big Boss conflicted. With love, respect and loyalty messing up our critter's brains now, seems like this is quite possible.
Logged

Eric Blank

  • Bay Watcher
  • Never stabs friends, promise!
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2572 on: November 14, 2019, 03:54:47 am »

It would be a rare thing for sure. The game is supposedly getting most actors involved in these plots based on personality type, so infiltrators would already be the sort of folks who care more about personal gain than anything else. But maybe they meet a really persuasive fellow and lose an argument, change their values, and their ways. You never know.
Logged
"THEN CAME TOBNOM, ASS-GOD".
I have no idea where anything is. I have no idea what anything does. This is not merely a madhouse designed by a madman, but a madhouse designed by many madmen, each with an intense hatred for the previous madman's unique flavour of madness.

Shonai_Dweller

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2573 on: November 14, 2019, 04:06:56 am »

It would be a rare thing for sure. The game is supposedly getting most actors involved in these plots based on personality type, so infiltrators would already be the sort of folks who care more about personal gain than anything else. But maybe they meet a really persuasive fellow and lose an argument, change their values, and their ways. You never know.
Remember it's not the top dog coming to infiltrate your fortress, just some henchman, possibly blackmailed into doing the job. With the complexity of values in critter's brains these days, it's not inconceivable for someone to rate love and friendship over fear of a far away, possibly not that threatening mid-level villain.

If you read the description of the new interrogation "combat" system, you'll see that it factors in fear of the boss Vs whatever the interrogator is using. That's only a tiny step from a quick calculation which makes an infiltrator decide not to pull the front door lever after all.

And just when the player notices what happened, the poor guy gets arrested and hammered. The makings of a beautiful tragedy.
Logged

FantasticDorf

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2574 on: November 14, 2019, 11:32:17 am »

With all this swaying of loyalties going on, have you considered the reverse? Time and again in fantasy fiction, the "infiltrator" makes friends, falls in love and finds his/her loyalties to the Big Boss conflicted. With love, respect and loyalty messing up our critter's brains now, seems like this is quite possible.


Ah yes, pschologically terrorize/infatuate your foes until the switch sides or start a loyalty cascade. TVtropes.org has some perfect analogies and explanations for it like 'Defeat Means Friendship' complimenting the heel faced turn in character described for whichever reason you'd like. Already you can do a downscaled thing like this by equipping your adventurer with legendary persuader running around with a extreme viewset flipping other influencial citizens in the world, or writing a well written influencial and distributed book, other skills like intimidator are naturally complicit with social activities like bartering.

I mean i have a few questions buzzing to go but id like to see some more replies before i tackle them, but here's one.
Quote from: Question to Toady
"Will we have any meaningful interactions to the dialogue interrogators have with POW's and other non-agents caught in cages?"

Suggestion'y kind of territory: It'd be pretty neat if we could simply ask a native population of animalpeople, "why are you on our land", and try to use the interrogator's skills to negotiate that'd it'd be better for them to join us or to move elsewhere. Though i imagine goblin soldiers will either plead to be freed or be very belligerant in the face of capture and need breaking before they spill the beans if their life means anything to the player.

It may be a exaggeration of how targeted exactly interrogations are and whether its autonomously connected to witnesss reports and criminality rather than just shaking down anybody you like for information while they're trapped for your leisure.
Logged

Shonai_Dweller

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2575 on: November 14, 2019, 10:18:00 pm »

Can you build temples or temple complexes to specific religions before being petitioned or has the interface changed in the new version? Right now I find that making a temple for each god keeps dwarves happier than having the one all-purpose temple (not scientifically tested). So, I'd probably do this anyway way before any priest asks me to.

Also, do priests and high priests suffer from jealousy over the value of their temple compared with other temples? That still happens with nobles and their room value, doesn't it?
Logged

PatrikLundell

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2576 on: November 15, 2019, 04:20:11 am »

Can you build temples or temple complexes to specific religions before being petitioned or has the interface changed in the new version? Right now I find that making a temple for each god keeps dwarves happier than having the one all-purpose temple (not scientifically tested). So, I'd probably do this anyway way before any priest asks me to.

Also, do priests and high priests suffer from jealousy over the value of their temple compared with other temples? That still happens with nobles and their room value, doesn't it?

I don't see any reason to block players from planning ahead with temple designation, but the question is relevant.

There's a difference between priests and nobles in that nobles are part of an official hierarchy, while priesthoods ought to be based on its members rather than on donations from the overseer, and that they're on the same hierarchical level as the others within one of the two clerical hierarchy levels. Still, historically temples and their priesthoods have competed both over the minds and purses of the population, the opulence of their temples, and the prestige of their priesthood. However, I'd expect the current development to form a foundation for such developments later, rather than having it implemented now (donations/taxes would require some kind of economy, for instance).
Logged

Shonai_Dweller

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2577 on: November 15, 2019, 06:30:58 am »

There's priest (requires a temple) and high priest (more important, requires a temple complex). If you build two temple complexes, one legendary and the other at the bare minimum high-priest standard, you've got a similar situation to nobles. Although, I guess they'd be of different religions so wouldn't see it quite the same way.

I don't imagine actual religious tension between religions will make it out of worldgen for this release, but it'll be nice to see in the future. Priests fighting each other, guilds fighting each other, villains causing civil wars in your fortress. Never mind the damn gobbos outside trying to tunnel under the drawbridge.  :)
Logged

Untrustedlife

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
    • My Website
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2578 on: November 15, 2019, 11:37:44 pm »

If i recall correctly adventurer mounts are in the upcoming version. If so, how does one get a mount, do they have to start with one if they want one or is there a way to purchase them? Also , does riding it make you move faster ion the world travel map?
« Last Edit: November 16, 2019, 12:00:38 am by Untrustedlife »
Logged
I am an indie game developer!
My Roguelike on Itch.io with randomly generated creatures!
Roguelegends: Dark Realms
Check out the open source simulation game I am also developing!
Thrive
My website untrustedlife.com

Shonai_Dweller

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2579 on: November 16, 2019, 12:05:53 am »

If i recall correctly adventurer mounts are in the upcoming version. If so, how does one get a mount, do they have to start with one if they want one or is there a way to purchase them? Also , does riding it make you move faster ion the world travel map?
For a start, they'll be available as "pets" when you create your party. Without taming or horse sales as a feature of Adventurer, there's not likely to be many other ways at first. Although, adventurer taming is surely low-hanging fruit.

Devnotes:
Quote
You can now create as many characters as you want when you start adventure mode, and they'll start together as a party. There are new equipment and mount/pet pages, as with skills and attributes, where you customize your character(s) from an additional point pool.

Talking of party set up, did you say you were going to add a save button to party creation like we get with dwarf mode setup? I know it's more complex than a standard "save" feature what with availability of animal people and certain types of equipment and so on in each world, but it would be nice to get a basic setup saved and then just have to tweak the details.

Kind of related to this suggestion:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=173825.0
« Last Edit: November 16, 2019, 12:36:55 am by Shonai_Dweller »
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 170 171 [172] 173 174 ... 223