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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 862701 times)

Untrustedlife

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2625 on: November 25, 2019, 01:19:09 pm »

(Maybe someone else knows the answer to this, but something I've been curious about.) Will a smaller range of intelligent animalpeople be generated in world generation, or is the plan to always have all kinds of animalpeople appear in every world generated? Seems like a smaller range of civilisation-tier animalpeople would make for more distinct generated settings.

Im fairly sure no given world has the full amount of possible animal people as them being placed in a region still has a random chance associated to it.
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Inarius

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2626 on: November 25, 2019, 01:42:32 pm »

Oh, i'm sorry i understood "forum decline" with "forum going down". English isn't my first language :)
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therahedwig

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2627 on: November 25, 2019, 03:00:15 pm »

(Maybe someone else knows the answer to this, but something I've been curious about.) Will a smaller range of intelligent animalpeople be generated in world generation, or is the plan to always have all kinds of animalpeople appear in every world generated? Seems like a smaller range of civilisation-tier animalpeople would make for more distinct generated settings.

Im fairly sure no given world has the full amount of possible animal people as them being placed in a region still has a random chance associated to it.
Yeah, even today(the variation used to be even lower, had to be updated during the animal fundraiser) the variation of animal people (and regular animals too) is limited, you can check these kind of things if you look at the sites and populations txt. There's certain worlds where there's no animals. Unless somehow the regions themselves generate animals, or you bring them in via outsider adventurers(which are made from whole cloth).
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notquitethere

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2628 on: November 25, 2019, 03:31:31 pm »

Maybe my question should be:

Will animalpeople ever be civilisation-level species on the same tier as dwarves, elves, humans and goblins?
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PlumpHelmetMan

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2629 on: November 25, 2019, 04:29:47 pm »

I remember Toady saying something about animal people being fleshed-out as part of the mythgen development cycle. Their exact level of civilization will likely vary from world-to-world, but at the very least they should be upgraded to living in their own tribalistic societies rather than just being ordinary animals who happen to be humanoid-shaped and capable of language like in the current version.

Sorry if this answer is as incoherent as it looks to me, I'm a bit scatterbrained at the moment. :P
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2630 on: November 25, 2019, 04:59:10 pm »

I remember Toady saying something about animal people being fleshed-out as part of the mythgen development cycle. Their exact level of civilization will likely vary from world-to-world, but at the very least they should be upgraded to living in their own tribalistic societies rather than just being ordinary animals who happen to be humanoid-shaped and capable of language like in the current version.

Sorry if this answer is as incoherent as it looks to me, I'm a bit scatterbrained at the moment. :P

I remember Toady dating that much further away in about the Law and Holdings planned arc (which is past the big magic arc we're on now), besides that they've been peppered slightly in threetoe stories (the evil wizard who was animating animalpeople servants) i dont remember any devlogs particular that point towards a interest in it. If @PlumpHelmetMan's correct then i guess it might be something as a little side distraction until it gets in the crosshairs of a larger arching target

They're still a popular suggestion though, im sure even Toady can't fault that, poor subterrenean peoples still get the short wedge of the civillization slice with little map feature camps but you do have the advantage to just create a custom civ out of those races with modding and plunk them in a kobold-like cave settlement for a out-of the way existance and addition to the stories you are trying to tell.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2631 on: November 25, 2019, 05:14:28 pm »

Animal peoples: There are (at least) two different things relating to those:
- Tribal societies, i.e. the animal peoples we have now, but with actual tribes and more interaction with fortresses. That's intended to be dealt with eventually.
- "Civilized" animal people civs (as per the question): As indicated, raw editing can easily create those now, although they'd effectively have to use the templates of the current "civilized" civs.

Myth & Magic is intended to be capable of handling procedurally generated civs, and there's no logical reason animal peoples shouldn't be included in that mix (a creation myth where the great god Ukko imbued sapience into some bears and at the same time made them bipedal wouldn't be outside of a normal fantasy scope).
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notquitethere

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2632 on: November 25, 2019, 05:22:36 pm »

Myth & Magic is intended to be capable of handling procedurally generated civs, and there's no logical reason animal peoples shouldn't be included in that mix (a creation myth where the great god Ukko imbued sapience into some bears and at the same time made them bipedal wouldn't be outside of a normal fantasy scope).
Yeah that's exactly the sort of thing so was thinking of.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2633 on: November 25, 2019, 05:33:52 pm »

I remember Toady saying something about animal people being fleshed-out as part of the mythgen development cycle. Their exact level of civilization will likely vary from world-to-world, but at the very least they should be upgraded to living in their own tribalistic societies rather than just being ordinary animals who happen to be humanoid-shaped and capable of language like in the current version.

Sorry if this answer is as incoherent as it looks to me, I'm a bit scatterbrained at the moment. :P
Quick look through the back pages of Fotf reveals "origins of animal people" defined in Mythgen and actual Animal person civs probably in the next arc on societies, politics and law.

All subject to change of course. If sites are rewritten as part of Mythgen map rewrite that brings the possibilities of small tribes and nomadic civs a little closer (and will finally make fleshing out underground civs more feasible). It's just of matter of what gets prioritized (and unexpected things like, Villains requires religion, guilds and mercenary bands to work properly).
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2634 on: November 26, 2019, 08:47:00 am »

Randomly jumping back to mounts (so many new things to play with in the upcoming release!). The new mechanics for controlling mounts also applies to npc mounts now (in fortress mode unless adventurer npc mounts have also been added), right? So mounts will go where the rider wants to go, rather than where they might want to go themselves? I just want to check that this solves the whole amphibious mounts pathing through water and killing their rider issue (unless the rider stops being able to control the mount for whatever reason, I suppose).
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therahedwig

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2635 on: November 26, 2019, 10:17:28 am »

I don't think the non-adventurer player mounts have been touched at all...
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Untrustedlife

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2636 on: November 26, 2019, 10:32:06 am »

I don't think the non-adventurer player mounts have been touched at all...

Why would he change how mounts work in one context while not changing the other. Toady avoids doing weird game mode specific things like that as according to him they are a nightmare to deal with. So i imagine he also fixed those. Also how do your adventruer companions with mounts act, because you can have that now, if they have AI that takes that into account so do invaders. If they dont, invaders wont.

Oh wow, i just came up with another question.
How does the game treat retired characters with mounts, do the mounts just hang out in the village then with their hist-fig names or do they become stray, or do they just dissappear?

What kind of variation can we expect from the dice roll syndromes...from your devlog " I went to a shrine, rolled a tin icosahedral die and it was a bad roll and I was cursed to be a snowy owl for a week"
« Last Edit: November 30, 2019, 01:41:13 am by Untrustedlife »
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2637 on: November 26, 2019, 04:16:10 pm »

I don't think the non-adventurer player mounts have been touched at all...

Why would he change how mounts work in one context while not changing the other. Toady avoids doing weird game mode specific things like that as according to him they are a nightmare to deal with. So i imagine he also fixed those. Also how do your adventruer companions with mounts act, because you can have that now, if they have AI that takes that into account so do invaders. If they dont, invaders wont.

Oh wow, i just came up with another question.
How does the game treat retired characters with mounts, do the mounts just hang out in the village then with their hist-fig names or do they become stray, or do they just dissappear?
Right, Adventurer ai mounts do exist in the form of your companions. Forgot about that one. So no reason this wouldn't effect fortress mount/rider soul relationships. Good good.
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MalroktheIII

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2638 on: November 26, 2019, 07:31:34 pm »

I'm too lazy too check if these were asked before, so i'm just going to ask these.
1:If kidnapping is a possibility, will my fortress be able to kidnap enemy leaders (or just historical figures in general)?
2:Along the same lines, will captured enemies/caged sentients be able to get themselves free/take over the fortress from within by using my dwarves?
3:If vampires/necromancers generally become evil by default, will my vampire necromancer fortress end up spawning hundreds of new villains?
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Untrustedlife

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2639 on: November 27, 2019, 09:53:23 am »

I'm too lazy too check if these were asked before, so i'm just going to ask these.
1:If kidnapping is a possibility, will my fortress be able to kidnap enemy leaders (or just historical figures in general)?
2:Along the same lines, will captured enemies/caged sentients be able to get themselves free/take over the fortress from within by using my dwarves?
3:If vampires/necromancers generally become evil by default, will my vampire necromancer fortress end up spawning hundreds of new villains?

Vampires definietly become villains because they have to commit crime to survive, but generally Historical figures become necromancers because they already had a somewhat villainous personality, so making your dwarves into them wouldnt make a difference, the transformation doenst actually change the personality. (It doenst just generate necromancers they come about in worldgen by choices made by hist figs who become necromancers, or in your case a dwarf reading the wrong book) Now if a dwarf was already ambitious (thats a possible personality), it will probabbly just make it more likely.


If you want you can play adventure mode and see how it all works very personally :) rathe rthan making assumptions based on what you see in fort mode
« Last Edit: November 27, 2019, 10:22:11 am by Untrustedlife »
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Thrive
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