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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 831116 times)

FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2655 on: November 28, 2019, 03:29:19 pm »

I feel some of my questions i have right now feel kind of premature until we recieve some clarity about what exactly guild members do, possibility of visitors and any sort of special functions i feel Toady wants to keep hush hush.

Its nice that guild halls seem to have a working men's club theme about sociabilty (though in the terms of organised dwarf labor, there is no such gender distinction) that will be helpful. And that you seem relatively confident in their ability to talk amongst themselves in the meeting areas.

Are dwarves driven to make and join guilds based on personality facets (appreciation of craftmanship) or is it just hardwired related to experience?


I would be suprised if it wasn't the case, but it'd be particularly interesting to see a modding applied race swap-out or player grooming of civilization values because it inferrs that lazy/unappreciative dwarves do not make or assotiate with guilds, and that the mechanic could potentially be applied in reverse for negative value required organisations
  • Be assured, players will take the *utmost* care in censuring high nature value druid cults full of peace and nature loving brainwashed dwarves.

Seperately -Will we have any control over the profession training regime? As im worried about my dwarves spending more time training to do a job than actually working to earn xp, as well as some discretion a player could personally bring.

Mainly thinking of the examples of military training, where if you can tease the military schedule screen into doing what you want through the gui menu's you can essentially create the training scenario you desire including lowering/raising the number of participants and selecting individuals to train specifically with one another which often works out well.
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therahedwig

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2656 on: November 28, 2019, 04:24:43 pm »

Quote
For now, dwarves can join the guild corresponding to their specific profession and also one for their broader group (e.g. craftsdwarves and then a subchapter for bone carvers), depending on their actual skills rather than their labor settings.

From the steam blog

Well, I guess that answers that...
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2657 on: November 28, 2019, 04:54:00 pm »

Quote
For now, dwarves can join the guild corresponding to their specific profession and also one for their broader group (e.g. craftsdwarves and then a subchapter for bone carvers), depending on their actual skills rather than their labor settings.

From the steam blog

Well, I guess that answers that...
Oh well that sounds more reasonable. My current fortress of 118 dwarves has potentially 3 guilds then. An opulent 26 "brown" guild (farming related), a regular guild for the 10 blue crafty dwarves and an extra regular guild just for the actual farmers.

Seems reasonable.

Do green dwarves (rangers, hunters, etc) get a guild? Because demands for a room full of animal parts on pedestals sounds kind of cool.

If I have an opulent guildhall with everything a dwarf from a farming related profession could ever want, will I still be getting stressed dwarves demanding a regular sub-chapter guildhall for the 10 brewers?
« Last Edit: November 28, 2019, 05:09:50 pm by Shonai_Dweller »
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Untrustedlife

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2658 on: November 28, 2019, 08:51:21 pm »

Quote
For now, dwarves can join the guild corresponding to their specific profession and also one for their broader group (e.g. craftsdwarves and then a subchapter for bone carvers), depending on their actual skills rather than their labor settings.

From the steam blog

Well, I guess that answers that...
Oh well that sounds more reasonable. My current fortress of 118 dwarves has potentially 3 guilds then. An opulent 26 "brown" guild (farming related), a regular guild for the 10 blue crafty dwarves and an extra regular guild just for the actual farmers.

Seems reasonable.

Do green dwarves (rangers, hunters, etc) get a guild? Because demands for a room full of animal parts on pedestals sounds kind of cool.

If I have an opulent guildhall with everything a dwarf from a farming related profession could ever want, will I still be getting stressed dwarves demanding a regular sub-chapter guildhall for the 10 brewers?


Rather then attempt to answer this I want to say a huntsmans guild or rangers guild would be awesome. Even like a  beastslayers/adventurer guild for  forts and adventure mode would be awesome.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2659 on: November 28, 2019, 08:56:27 pm »

Quote
For now, dwarves can join the guild corresponding to their specific profession and also one for their broader group (e.g. craftsdwarves and then a subchapter for bone carvers), depending on their actual skills rather than their labor settings.

From the steam blog

Well, I guess that answers that...
Oh well that sounds more reasonable. My current fortress of 118 dwarves has potentially 3 guilds then. An opulent 26 "brown" guild (farming related), a regular guild for the 10 blue crafty dwarves and an extra regular guild just for the actual farmers.

Seems reasonable.

Do green dwarves (rangers, hunters, etc) get a guild? Because demands for a room full of animal parts on pedestals sounds kind of cool.

If I have an opulent guildhall with everything a dwarf from a farming related profession could ever want, will I still be getting stressed dwarves demanding a regular sub-chapter guildhall for the 10 brewers?


Rather then attempt to answer this I want to say a huntsmans guild or rangers guild would be awesome. Even like a  beastslayers/adventurer guild for  forts and adventure mode would be awesome.
Oh, what if they had archery targets in the guildhall and could train their crossbow skills, like a military squad, during downtime? That would be nice.

Not that they really need a boost, hunting seems to level them up pretty quickly, but "hunters guild demand an archery range" just because, would be fun.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2019, 09:03:06 pm by Shonai_Dweller »
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2660 on: November 29, 2019, 03:50:09 am »

Are you considering making the guild formation/progression thresholds player adjustable?
This is, of course, a thinly veiled request... The issue I see is that small fortresses (like the ones I've played) won't get those numbers (I'm not that worried about the full guild complex one for my case). Also, depending on how they behave, players may want to disable them for one reason or another, and an easy way to do that is to jack the formation threshold up through the roof.
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Beag

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2661 on: November 29, 2019, 02:28:27 pm »

Will the new craft halls and updated temples also appear in generated sites such as hamlets, towns, hillock and mountain homes or is it something that can only occur in player forts?
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CatG0d

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2662 on: November 29, 2019, 03:17:24 pm »

I have been thinking a lot lately about how fast technology and the way coding is done have progressed over the past decade, with things such as neural networks coming to mind, so I have a few questions based on this topic:

1. What technology or discovery (if any) do you wish you had available when you first started work on DF?
2. What newer technology would you like to implement at one point in DF?
3. What possible future technology are you most excited about, especially when it comes to developing DF?
4. I know this will be a weird comparison, but I feel DF may end up a lot like a space probe, where a project started way later will surpass it because of advancements in computers and programming. How would you feel if another team started another project like DF (so a fantasy world simulator-generator) and ended up "overtaking you"?
5.This a bit more specific but I would like to ask someone who has a lot more experience in coding than me. I know there is this discussion about how the AI in the world will adapt to new mechanics introduced by random magic systems (such as free teleportation for everyone making doors obsolete). I was wondering if it would be possible to use some sort of self-learning AI at world gen (helped by a lot of already written background code) to generate realistic behavior in actors, or would that instantly kill any CPU?


« Last Edit: November 29, 2019, 06:14:53 pm by CatG0d »
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2663 on: November 29, 2019, 05:05:03 pm »

Will the new craft halls and updated temples also appear in generated sites such as hamlets, towns, hillock and mountain homes or is it something that can only occur in player forts?
8/7/2019 devblog:
Quote

The necessary map work I was set to do this week is now mostly completed. That included bandit and mercenary forts, merchant company counting houses, guildhalls, monasteries, and improved necromancer towers. The necros still need a bit of work, but overall it's in good shape. As usual, actually creating the maps and populating them brought various bugs and nonsense to the surface, some of it very old. I fixed the problems that I found, with the occasional collapsed roof and infinite pit to the underworld along the way.

We've also been convinced by this process that doing the map rewrite as part of the Big Wait is necessary. For instance, I was able to get guildhalls and counting houses to appear in non-player dwarf forts, but it was an iffy thing, and there are bandaids all over the place. The inability to extend map code smoothly is going to inhibit a lot of what we want to do with magic and beyond, so we'll definitely be tackling that.


I have been thinking a lot lately about how fast technology and the way coding is done have progressed over the past decade, with things such as neural networks coming to mind, so I have a few questions based on this topic:

1. What technology or discovery (if any) do you wish you had available when you first started work on DF?
2. What newer technology would you like to implement at one point in DF?
3. What possible future technology are you most excited about, especially when it comes to developing DF?
4. I know this will be a weird comparison, but I feel DF may end up a lot like a space probe, where a project started way later will surpass it because of advancements in computers and programming. How would you feel if another team started another project like DF (so a fantasy world simulator-generator) and ended up "overtaking you"?
5.This a bit more specific but I would like to ask someone who has a lot more experience in coding than me. I know there is this discussion about how the AI in the world will adapt to new mechanics introduced by random magic systems (such as free teleportation for everyone making doors obsolete). I was wondering if it would be possible to use some sort of self-learning AI at world gen (helped by a lot of already written background code) to generate realistic behavior in actors, or would that instantly kill any CPU?

Limegreen for questions to Toady.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2019, 05:08:25 pm by Shonai_Dweller »
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Untrustedlife

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2664 on: November 30, 2019, 12:21:12 am »

Will the new craft halls and updated temples also appear in generated sites such as hamlets, towns, hillock and mountain homes or is it something that can only occur in player forts?
Yes. He tries to avoid inconsistencies.

Speaking of inconsistencies, Tarn, i killed a bronze collosus , when i told the lady she said it was inevitable, but then i asked her what she thought of me and she said i was suddenly a legendary hero. Any plans to improve the responses?


One of these is not like the other, and my only kill is the collosus.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2019, 01:06:35 am by Untrustedlife »
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Nopenope

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2665 on: December 01, 2019, 02:33:29 pm »

What gameplay role do priests have? Are they like tavern keepers?

Could you do a breakdown of how reputation works in adventure mode (different types, scales, actions required)? The wiki is very unclear.

Who gets an abstract 'account' in worldgen? Is it specific to sites, buildings, histfigs?

If I understand well, sabotage in worldgen is abstractly harming someone's 'account', and embezzling is transferring from one account to another. How does that manifest in fort mode? Does the fort also have an account?

What kind of hideouts do villains have? I read something about an abandoned monastery in the devlogs but are there other types of sites (apart from the ones that are inherent to histfigs like necro towers ordemon spires)

Do bandits have specific forts now or do they stay in camps?

How do the worldgen relationship variables such as loyalty, fear, trust etc. interplay with fort mode relationships and emotions? With adventurer reputation?

Sorry if I missed it, but are adventurers' ability to conduct their own plots (e.g. to steal artifacts) still on the table? What about fortress counter-espionage, will that entail stuff like assassinating histfigs offsite?

Do mercenary forts send visitors to your fort? In fact, what do they actually do post-wg? What about monasteries?


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Untrustedlife

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2666 on: December 01, 2019, 03:51:15 pm »

What gameplay role do priests have? Are they like tavern keepers?

Could you do a breakdown of how reputation works in adventure mode (different types, scales, actions required)? The wiki is very unclear.

Who gets an abstract 'account' in worldgen? Is it specific to sites, buildings, histfigs?

If I understand well, sabotage in worldgen is abstractly harming someone's 'account', and embezzling is transferring from one account to another. How does that manifest in fort mode? Does the fort also have an account?

What kind of hideouts do villains have? I read something about an abandoned monastery in the devlogs but are there other types of sites (apart from the ones that are inherent to histfigs like necro towers ordemon spires)

Do bandits have specific forts now or do they stay in camps?

How do the worldgen relationship variables such as loyalty, fear, trust etc. interplay with fort mode relationships and emotions? With adventurer reputation?

Sorry if I missed it, but are adventurers' ability to conduct their own plots (e.g. to steal artifacts) still on the table? What about fortress counter-espionage, will that entail stuff like assassinating histfigs offsite?

Do mercenary forts send visitors to your fort? In fact, what do they actually do post-wg? What about monasteries?
4. Villains can hide any place that is abandoned/unpopulated caves, abandoned villages, abandoned cities abandoned Merc forts, sewers, whatever. They donít like, have places generated for them unless they can build it.(a castle a tower a fort etc) (Like a bandit fort, those are in the next version)And they wouldnít build an abandoned monestary for example but they could go to one that already exists and make that their hideout.

5.Yes bandit forts exist in the next version, though in sure some will stick with camps for variety.

6. Relationship variables are shared through the modes, he doesnít do weird mode specific things like that itís the same world same variables. He cares about maintaining the simulation. I imagine some dwarves will be conflicted etc about their situations etc as the personalityís and relationships react to each other.

7.Adventurer villains are in the next version.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2019, 03:55:33 pm by Untrustedlife »
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JesterHell696

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2667 on: December 01, 2019, 07:19:06 pm »

I see that there are no answers yet so I'll throw out a few of mine.

1. What skills if any have already been slated for addition to adventure mode?

2. One of the most common maps made in any game are real world ones, Europe, North America, Africa etc and given that it is already possible to use advanced world gen to create and save "static" maps have you given any though to including some real world height maps in the Steam Release or do you think that is something for modders?

3. With the rise of organisations and the return of guilds I wondering if there are any plans for thing like the Assassin Guild, Thieves Guild or even a generic Adventurers Guild?

4. If these are not planned would they be mod-able?

5. How do you view Nobility and noble politics occurring? do Noble families act like organisations plotting and planning against one another or are they more like loose affiliations with no real goal?

6. With all the changes to adventure mode thanks to the addition of the party system I was wondering if it was now possible to choose what god you worship and how faithful you are?

7. What about choosing your adventurers description?
as it is I (F) full random until I get large body for the added attack force.

8. With the addition of multiple lovers are mundane plots of petty grudges or jilted lovers seeking revenge on their own a thing? like hiring their own assassin and paying for it with a family heirloom with no overarching villain plot or corruption being needed?

9. I was also wondering are fighting pits and arenas planned? Arenas seem like one of the easiest ways to add a adventure mode "career" path.

10. With the addition of adventure mode parties is adventure mode receiving an "embark" screen where we can actually equip our adventurers before embarking on adventure?

11. If we are getting an adventure mode embark screen will we also be able to set the points available in advanced world gen like we can with fortress embarks?
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"The long-term goal is to create a fantasy world simulator in which it is possible to take part in a rich history, occupying a variety of roles through the course of several games." Bay 12 DF development page

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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2668 on: December 01, 2019, 07:24:10 pm »

Quote

. What skills if any have already been slated for addition to adventure mode?

2. One of the most common maps made in any game are real world ones, Europe, North America, Africa etc and given that it is already possible to use advanced world gen to create and save "static" maps have you given any though to including some real world height maps in the Steam Release or do you think that is something for modders?

3. With the rise of organisations and the return of guilds I wondering if there are any plans for thing like the Assassin Guild, Thieves Guild or even a generic Adventurers Guild?

4. If these are not planned would they be mod-able?

5. How do you view Nobility and noble politics occurring? do Noble families act like organisations plotting and planning against one another or are they more like loose affiliations with no real goal?

6. With all the changes to adventure mode thanks to the addition of the party system I was wondering if it was now possible to choose what god you worship and how faithful you are?

7. What about choosing your adventurers description? as it is I (F) full random until I get large body for the added attack force.

8. With the addition of multiple lovers are mundane plots of petty grudges or jilted lovers seeking revenge on their own a thing? like hiring their own assassin and paying for it with a family heirloom with no overarching villain plot or corruption being needed?

9. I was also wondering are fighting pits and arenas planned? Arenas seem like one of the easiest ways to add a adventure mode "career" path.

10. With the addition of adventure mode parties is adventure mode receiving an "embark" screen where we can actually equip our adventurers before embarking on adventure?

11. If we are getting an adventure mode embark screen will we also be able to set the points available in advanced world gen like we can with fortress embarks?

1. When? The far future, or next release?
6. Yes (devnotes, don't think it mentions a level of faith option though).
8. Seems so (devnotes)
10,11. Yes. (Devnotes)
« Last Edit: December 01, 2019, 07:26:31 pm by Shonai_Dweller »
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LordBaal

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2669 on: December 01, 2019, 07:26:18 pm »

Are you gonna tackle apprenticeship with this update? What about making workshops an area just like guildhalls?
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