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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 549898 times)

Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2670 on: December 01, 2019, 07:24:10 pm »

Quote

. What skills if any have already been slated for addition to adventure mode?

2. One of the most common maps made in any game are real world ones, Europe, North America, Africa etc and given that it is already possible to use advanced world gen to create and save "static" maps have you given any though to including some real world height maps in the Steam Release or do you think that is something for modders?

3. With the rise of organisations and the return of guilds I wondering if there are any plans for thing like the Assassin Guild, Thieves Guild or even a generic Adventurers Guild?

4. If these are not planned would they be mod-able?

5. How do you view Nobility and noble politics occurring? do Noble families act like organisations plotting and planning against one another or are they more like loose affiliations with no real goal?

6. With all the changes to adventure mode thanks to the addition of the party system I was wondering if it was now possible to choose what god you worship and how faithful you are?

7. What about choosing your adventurers description? as it is I (F) full random until I get large body for the added attack force.

8. With the addition of multiple lovers are mundane plots of petty grudges or jilted lovers seeking revenge on their own a thing? like hiring their own assassin and paying for it with a family heirloom with no overarching villain plot or corruption being needed?

9. I was also wondering are fighting pits and arenas planned? Arenas seem like one of the easiest ways to add a adventure mode "career" path.

10. With the addition of adventure mode parties is adventure mode receiving an "embark" screen where we can actually equip our adventurers before embarking on adventure?

11. If we are getting an adventure mode embark screen will we also be able to set the points available in advanced world gen like we can with fortress embarks?

1. When? The far future, or next release?
6. Yes (devnotes, don't think it mentions a level of faith option though).
8. Seems so (devnotes)
10,11. Yes. (Devnotes)
« Last Edit: December 01, 2019, 07:26:31 pm by Shonai_Dweller »
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LordBaal

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2671 on: December 01, 2019, 07:26:18 pm »

Are you gonna tackle apprenticeship with this update? What about making workshops an area just like guildhalls?
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I'm curious as to how a tank would evolve. Would it climb out of the primordial ooze wiggling it's track-nubs, feeding on smaller jeeps before crawling onto the shore having evolved proper treds?
My ship exploded midflight, but all the shrapnel totally landed on Alpha Centauri before anyone else did.  Bow before me world leaders!

Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2672 on: December 01, 2019, 07:27:29 pm »

Are you gonna tackle apprenticeship with this update? What about making workshops an area just like guildhalls?
Area workshops are planned but will break save compatibility. So scheduled for next massive update when that tends to happen (Mythgen, but maybe Steam too).
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Toady One

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2673 on: December 01, 2019, 10:22:33 pm »

Quote from: GoblinCookie
With bribery now a thing, it seems to make sense to (re)introduce coins and the use thereof into fortress mode.  Is there a specific reason you are not doing so, the development does not require the economy because the goods the dwarves buy with their money can simply be conjured into existence in the hands of visiting peddlers the same way the caravan's goods presently are? Is bribery going to be ruled out in fortress mode altogether or do you instead intent to have non-money based bribes by which actual goods are given to dwarves; that would seem to require gift-giving to exist normally so as to provide cover for this mechanic.

PatrikLundell: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8050864#msg8050864
GoblinCookie (op): http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8051074#msg8051074
Shonai_Dweller: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8051105#msg8051105
GoblinCookie (op): http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8051318#msg8051318
Shonai_Dweller: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8051320#msg8051320
GoblinCookie (op): http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8052369#msg8052369

It's more work, and there just isn't time - it's not crucial if the other methods are sufficient for now.  We haven't implemented bribery yet in fort mode, among the available options, precisely because of the item-based side of it, which complicates things.  I'm not sure if we'll get there.

Quote
Quote from: Codyo
Fortress mode question!
The blog mentions being able to "track down" and "send somebody after them" when it comes to villains. Does this mean sending one dwarf, or a military squad to capture a villain? If they can be captured, will they be escorted to one of your dungeon cells?
I'd find it really fun to capture my fortress's nemesis and put him on display somewhere. To ultimately give him some creative dwarven justice.
Quote from: FantasticDorf
Carrying on this question: "Can people who have been marked for arrest prior to leaving be pursued across the world map? As in to locate the identity of a were beast or fleeing vampire/villian/opportunistic artifact theif and then return them to the fortress in custody or otherwise."

I guess the devil is in the detail to how informal/formal the accusation whether player set on meta-evidence they know (saw the werebeast transform into the identity they're chasing or discovered the vampire by some means) or deduced from your dwarves witness statements and interrogation are credible to use.

We haven't done this yet, but it might end up being both.  The way "army controllers" work, it doesn't matter if it's a squad or an agent/scout of some kind - the missing pieces are the interface for giving the orders and also recognizing the appointment of agents (probably in the occupations section as with site-wide messengers etc.) and their validity for certain mission types.  The more "villainous plot like" the controller is, the more a single person fits the structures, though, and at some point, the squad stops working.  Squad-based assassinations and captures are probably fine - we already have raids that are quite similar to this.

And yeah, assuming we get to these options, we were planning on just have them escorted on to the edge of the map and walked to a cell, just like the regular arrests, except that the squad member would need to be recognized for a time as a valid escorter.

And that should let you follow suspects off the map, yeah, but you'd need to set up the mission on the 'c' screen (or the new justice screen depending on how it works out).  In the case of bringing somebody back, it could very well be a single fortress guard that leaves the map rather than an agent or military member.  But we'll have to see what ends up happening since there could be a technical obstacle there.

Quote from: recon1o6
Speaking of traps, will Villains be able to start making lairs in our fort if they corrupt including traps, documents etc?

Ha ha, nothing like that happens.

Quote from: Su
will we be seeing armies demand to have specific residents of the fort turned over to them / executed on the spot?

FantasticDorf: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8052087#msg8052087

We haven't done anything like this.  The artifact demands and parley options have us a step closer to that kind of thing, but nope, not yet.

Quote
Quote from: Death Dragon
Actions like flattery can increase trust but decrease respect, for example, depending on the personality of the NPC.
Does that mean we can flatter and flirt with any random person in adventure mode?

Quote from: Toady One devlog 7th of november
You can fill these jobs yourself with any worshipper you like - we thought it would be too cruel to randomly take one of your best dwarves away.
I think this is too bad. 1: Because I was hoping for entities like religious organisations and craftguilds to be factions inside your fort that you don't have direct control over. 2: The question of if the ruler gets to assign a religious head or not is a classic conflict in history. 3: Because I think it gives your dwarves additional personality when they themselves decide they want to apply for a position like this.

Does manually assigning someone to the priest position cause a negative thought in your religious population similar to how overruling the vote for mayor does when you just manually assign a new mayor, or does assigning a priest work similar to how assigning a barkeeper works with no strings attached?
I assume you're intending to put off the work on the power and influence of these uncontrollable factions inside your fortress to when you get into the status/laws/etc update after magic, right?
Quote from: Vivalas
To add to that:

Is it possible that certain organized religions may petition to install their own priest instead when a petition is put through? This would possibly be an additional cool way in which outside agents can weasel their way into your fort, too. Also: what options or actions do villains in charge of a religious organization undertake to further their evil plans. Would an evil Cat Pope or whatever install agent priests all over in an attempt to start a cat uprising or some such ridiculous mischief?
Quote from: therahedwig
So priesthood is a fulltime occupation? Do priests do anything in the fort(sermons, consolation, I guess other religious rituals are out of the question for now), or are they like barons and other nobles, in that they are not supossed to work but do because that nowork tag is currently bugged?

Ha ha, no flirting yet.  And some of the actions are restricted to interrogations.

I understand the objections and various situations from history etc., but it's something that'll take a lot more effort to implement in a way that isn't game-breaking, I think.  Taking a random dwarf away, especially in some of the earlier-game situations that can crop up in relatively religiously homogenous worlds, might be too serious.  Eventually, we can do more, allow some negotiation and partial concessions etc.  We do want these groups to feel powerful when justified, eventually.

Yeah, it's a full-time occupation.  They should end up with a few tasks before the release, though I don't recall if that happened yet.

Quote from: Criperum
Is there a possibility to start a "war" between two vilians? Especially between player-vilian and AI controlled one?

FantasticDorf: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8054026#msg8054026

Yeah, I suppose it depends on what you mean.  We haven't yet implemented player-led versions of the war starting plot, but in terms of assassinations and so forth, and being hunted down, this is in the cards but not yet done.

Quote from: Untrustedlife
Can player necromancers create the new constructed undead that you added a month or so back? What about the intelligent undead?

 It would be a little odd compared to the rest of the game for the player necro to be incapable of one of the major things necromancers can do given the way you have treated inconsistencies like this previously(usually from what I’ve seen you don’t let these sorts of inconsistencies into your game (And I think that’s for a good reason))

Shonai_Dweller: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8053406#msg8053406
Untrustedlife (op): http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8053441#msg8053441

Quote from: Criperum
Can player create a plot just to use it's powers to fight another plot?

We haven't done player-initiated plots yet, but the idea is that these are simply tools to use as you like.  If orchestrating an assassination stops a plot, then it works out that way.  Hopefully everything will end up being versatile.

Quote from: DerMeister
How looks harpy and ogre eyes? How ogre and harpy see?

therahedwig: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8053671#msg8053671
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ZM5: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8053702#msg8053702
PatrikLundell: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8053707#msg8053707

Quote from: Untrustedlife
In the upcoming version evil regions can gloriously  spread outwords from necromancer towers. In adventure mode in the current version the player can become a necromancer the player can also use their zombies to build a camp.  So will evil regions spread outwards from these sorts of camps If the player takes some time to build up the zombie population?

A while ago you talked about “really bad things” causing a region to turn evil (whether by sacrificing many creatures with a small age number, or some other terrible catastrophe. Is that still planned and will players be able to do this?

FantasticDorf: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8054143#msg8054143
PatrikLundell: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8054198#msg8054198
Untrustedlife (op): http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8054229#msg8054229
Shonai_Dweller: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8054285#msg8054285

As I recall, it won't happen for adv interactions because it doesn't tie the raising event to a site you are in, since you just raise things wherever you do it and the more abstracted versions tie it back to goings-on at a site.  I didn't do anything with regions turning evil for other reasons than the ones mentioned in the log, and at this point that'll likely be out in myth/magic country.

Quote from: Shonai_Dweller
With all this swaying of loyalties going on, have you considered the reverse? Time and again in fantasy fiction, the "infiltrator" makes friends, falls in love and finds his/her loyalties to the Big Boss conflicted. With love, respect and loyalty messing up our critter's brains now, seems like this is quite possible.

Eric Blank: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8054957#msg8054957
Shonai_Dweller: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8054959#msg8054959
FantasticDorf: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8055082#msg8055082

We're sitting in the muck of this now, and somebody having conflicted loyalties is one of the situations we've been aiming for, as this is story fodder.  However, it's tricky to get people to think about all of the things they should be thinking about all of the time in every situation, so it's just a matter of continued work.  There are already situations in w.g. where the infiltrator puts themselves in this position (with a lover or friend), and for fort mode, hmm, I don't recall how far their social relations advance in the regular chat function.  It's hard enough for dwarves that I assume not much happens there.  But of course, their, like, uncle could already be in the fort when they start.  They might even be trying to flip their uncle.  These situations should be amplified and shown off, really, and it does set their default trust/etc. values differently when there's a relationship with a family member, but it isn't something you'll notice yet, especially in the fort where we don't show conversations etc.  I'm not sure if interrogation will get at any of this yet.  But, well, another bit headed in the right direction, slowly.

Quote from: FantasticDorf
Will we have any meaningful interactions to the dialogue interrogators have with POW's and other non-agents caught in cages?

We are just coming upon that, so I'm not 100% sure if it'll all be sheriff-led.  That seems less interesting, but we'll see what's feasible now - we don't have the whole conversation interface from adv mode to lean on for various reasons, so it'd be more like those diplomacy screens, and that may or may not work for this purpose currently.  As stated in the previous response, it would be very good to get way more conversation stuff in here and at a few other points, rather than just the occasional shout in combat and personality screen thought bubbles.  But a full conversation integration is too much of a project for this time.

Quote from: Shonai_Dweller
Can you build temples or temple complexes to specific religions before being petitioned or has the interface changed in the new version? Right now I find that making a temple for each god keeps dwarves happier than having the one all-purpose temple (not scientifically tested). So, I'd probably do this anyway way before any priest asks me to.

Also, do priests and high priests suffer from jealousy over the value of their temple compared with other temples? That still happens with nobles and their room value, doesn't it?

PatrikLundell: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8055341#msg8055341
Shonai_Dweller (op): http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8055362#msg8055362

You can set them up in advance for any organized religion present in the fort, as I recall.

We haven't done anything interesting with priests quibbling, but of course the whole hope of these subgroups was to eventually get them to provide some varied texture for fort life.  Nothing yet though!

Quote from: Untrustedlife
If i recall correctly adventurer mounts are in the upcoming version. If so, how does one get a mount, do they have to start with one if they want one or is there a way to purchase them? Also , does riding it make you move faster ion the world travel map?

Shonai_Dweller: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8055664#msg8055664

Yeah, as Shonai_Dweller says, we haven't implemented taming or purchasing.  There was that whole undead mount discussion from before, ha ha, so I guess there is technically another way to get one.  Yeah, riding matters vs. speed.

Quote from: Shonai_Dweller
Talking of party set up, did you say you were going to add a save button to party creation like we get with dwarf mode setup? I know it's more complex than a standard "save" feature what with availability of animal people and certain types of equipment and so on in each world, but it would be nice to get a basic setup saved and then just have to tweak the details.

Kind of related to this suggestion:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=173825.0

I didn't add a party save button.  It's a reasonable idea, though as you say, certain differences will need to be accounted for, and there are quite a few more things that can currently be tweaked about an adventurer (personality etc.) though it all lives in the same "character sheet" object as the dwarf mode starting dwarves.

Quote from: Jack_Caboose
As the mythgen update will add artifacts with actual effects, how far will this control extend in terms of mods? Would it be possible to, for example, have a library of user-defined artifacts (with set names, effects, materials, etc) that will be guaranteed to show up in a world?

Shonai_Dweller: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8055709#msg8055709

Yeah, doing specific user-defined <anything> is on the editor side of things, and we're planning on that in terms of the architecture, but we're not sure when we'll actually have them, since that's an additional large chunk to an already large large initial release.

Quote from: Untrustedlife
Any plans to increase the depth of the Adventure mode "Bard" playstyle? Social skills are getting alot of new mechanics and I was wondeirng if theres any plans to further improve the performance aspect of this? Rather then just the social part.

Not immediately, no.  But yeah, it doesn't feel like it's quite at even an initial stage, and there are various broken aspects about it.  I'm not sure yet where, more broadly, the next push toward non-confrontational playstyles will reside, but it's something we are interested in.

Quote from: Shonai_Dweller
Adventurer investigations is still ongoing, right? What's the plan for when you finally track down a villain at the top of the network? How will the player know? I imagine someone playing the new interrogation game for hours while the villain adamantly denies working for anyone without ever realising they're telling the truth. Some pay-off would be nice. Not just, well he's dead, did I win? Did I miss a clue?

Yeah, we've felt time-crunched and wanted to get our fort flags planted, but we're working on adv investigations.  Ha ha, yes, it is one of the unsatisfying things about conspiracies and spy-hunting and all that, the imperfect information and knowing when you've accomplished something important.  This has been a central issue to some of our side projects, and now that (as usual) side project stuff gets into DF, the issues reside here, and we've been mulling them over.  I think it's probably valid for now to signpost it a bit, since tops of networks are easy enough for the game to recognize and the feeling of lingering paranoia is probably a little too realistic to be fun, he he he.

Quote from: Untrustedlife
Any plans for improving the currently existing structures like catacombs and dungeons? Will villains hang out in those places if they don't have somewhere better to hang out? Any additional plans for improving them, such as making catacombs more "undead filled" rather then a maze of non-animated corpses skeletons and sarcophagi with the occassional mummy for example could intelligent undead move in down there??

Since some evil biomes spread now could they then overtake a human city/town and inadvertently fill up the catacombs with undead in that way. Could it destroy the town making it a ruin with catacombs filled with undead? Or perhaps be a vector for a new “slay the undead in the catacombs” agreement. Much like the current attack the tower trouble.

I didn't change any of this for this time, and I'm not sure when it'll be revisited.  The map rewrite touches everything, but it's hard to say what'll happen there since I'll be more just getting things to work in a new system and doing improvements when and where I can easily do so.

Hmm, I don't think the vegetation death part of the evil biome is recognized by w.g. farming, just the site placer, since it didn't know it would need to check for future changes.  So expansion will halt, but existing towns will survive currently.

Quote from: PatrikLundell
Do the plans/current work for fortress mode Villainy include any standing measures the overseer can actively set up to stop, or at least complicate, plots, rather than passive measures in the form of reports to the justice screen that the overseer might potentially notice before the criminal has left the fortress?
I'm thinking of things like guards that actually stop thieves/assassins from accessing restricted areas, rather than just note that they stole/murdered the artifact/monarch (while asleep in the bedroom), and anyone raising alarms (rather than just filed a report) when an outsider is seen carrying off an artifact (that hasn't been given away, of course, although I wouldn't mind if some dorfs would eventually be grumpy about that as well).

Obviously investigations would be active, but they'd have to be based on indications, and so doesn't fulfill this need. The fortress has long been short on standing means to protect against (visiting) vampires and spies (I've never actually seen a "real" spy, but plenty of goblin civ performance troupe members reporting back, as seen by invaders bypassing traps).

therahedwig: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8057861#msg8057861
PatrikLundell (op): http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8057866#msg8057866
Untrustedlife: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8057994#msg8057994
PatrikLundell (op): http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8058030#msg8058030
Untrustedlife: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8058032#msg8058032
therahedwig: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8058042#msg8058042

Access was a big part of our planning and is abstractly calc'd for w.g. plots.  Over in play, it was going to start with a revamped guard system for adv mode, which would turn into a new guard system for fort mode.  Now, time is short and this may not happen for the release.  Using the fortress guards to generate more witness reports is a decent enough way to mimic this (so posting a guard by the artifact pedestals is meaningful, and structuring their placement with theft in mind), but it certainly doesn't have the heft or utilty of actually stopping people and enforcing restrictions.

Quote from: Untrustedlife
Sorry for the large amount of questions this time around, in your talk you mentioned how mannerisms dont really effect things in the current version of df, now that you have added interrogation, will mannerisms come up?  Will you add this for fort mode investigations/adventurer investigation? That would make it impact the story Alot. Also when will clapping be added, it is defined in the raws but ive never seen it happen. Unlike spitting which happens all the time.

PlumpHelmetMan: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8058023#msg8058023

Despite this being what they were added for in the first place, I haven't done anything with mannerisms yet.  They'd need to be incorporated more fully for it to work out here, so they are sort of fighting against themselves and it'll be hard to find time to fix it.

What's this about raw clapping?  I couldn't figure out what you meant - search just found the word 'clap' in the language file.

Quote from: squamous
1. In a previous FOTF you mentioned the DEMON tag would become usable by modders. Would this allow modders to create their own dark fortress rulers or just make demons that live underground? There seems to be a difference between the two, but I might be overthinking things.

2. My memory might be betraying me here but was it mentioned that caravans would spawn in the world now? Not to like actually serve as an economy yet but just travel between towns as a flavor thing. Could I rob them?

3. So necromancers will teach their secrets to willing co-conspirators if their personalities allow it. Would a type of secret holder who does not live in a tower also be capable of gaining disciples? Like, if I were to make a worldgen secret that did not make the user immortal but taught them how to throw fireballs and the like, could that person teach others how to do it? Right now, that sort of thing only happens in towers to my knowledge, so I'm curious.

4. On a similar note, it was mentioned how necromancers could reanimate sapient undead or special experimental monsters, which could gain independence and flee their master to wander the wilderness. Would it be possible to repurpose these interactions for transformed beings rather than reanimated ones? Like for example, say I made a wizard who could transmute corpses into, just for example, elves, would they function the same as a conventionally reanimated lieutenant? Or some other monster. Essentially, would it be possible to create wizards who create new forms of living monsters and races in addition to the vanilla undead ones?

5. What compels an NPC to wear gloves/armwear/cloaks? I've noticed some of them do, but some of them don't. I can't seem to find an underlying logic to it. Is it random?

Shonai_Dweller: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8058135#msg8058135
EternalCaveDragon: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8058148#msg8058148
PlumpHelmetMan: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8058157#msg8058157
EternalCaveDragon: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8058162#msg8058162
Untrustedlife: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8058170#msg8058170
Shonai_Dweller: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8058175#msg8058175

1. Yeah, UNIQUE_DEMON is available.  I have no idea if it works.  It looks like the only tags restricted now are "GENERATED" which marks a creature as coming from the generation function, and SOURCE_HFID and SOURCE_ENID which refer to a historical id number for the generation.  So everything that can be out is out, for creatures.

2. No caravans for the next release.  I'm not sure what that might have been.

3. Ah, I only added the immortality inducement, so other teachy bits will work as currently, I think.

4. I can't think of a way to do that with the new stuff.  They just don't think to create new populations with other interactions, and anything the player does happens on a person-by-person basis rather than establishing a pop.

5. In the same site?  It's all based on temperature as I recall.  But maybe somebody that moved from another pop is semi-buggily using their original home's temperature instead of the new spot's?

Quote from: FantasticDorf
Well i dont know if this is a sneaky hint or not regarding whether any subtle changes to unit inventories are being implemented, because that kind of action doesn't really habitually happen, often preferring to keep things they interact with in hands and have a little freakout when they're holding a mug and a object in the other for instance they can't just hook on their belt or put on their person like a player adventurer can with generous inventory.

    Very rarely ever swapping or putting on back weapons they're using (opaquely connected to armor layer room space or whether two weapons being stored clash it seems like), and reacting to a very specific situation like crossbowdwarves changing weapon to melee (which can be micro'd like sending them to a training range just to revert back to active crossbow-weapon but its unreliable and single type of weapon dwarves are preferred for novice soldiers).

"If the infiltrators (more to say also covering spies/questers) bring a outfit as part of their disguise or profession attire that's bulk (lots of things already attached and full Armor layer %, posing as a mercenary for instance) and wear the artifact on their way out, have you made any contingency to have them trade equipment or will they walk very slowly on their way out trying to wear a platinum helmet without taking the copper one they had on before off."

I would hope that a discarded helmet, and witness reports of the dwarf/agent wearing a stolen helmet would help piece together a unanimous decision from the kind of meta-data the player sees about ownership and the gui stuff being chucked around under the improved system. But i don't think anybody really knows yet at what stage dwarves will get suspicious of the agent's intentions.

Untrustedlife: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8058380#msg8058380

Yeah, they normally just carry it in their hand, but the sheathing/strapping of weapons is a special case, so they did that with the pick.  I think a helmet thief would keep it in their hand, without trying to put it on their head, helmet or not.

Quote from: PlumpHelmetMan
Do you think it will ever be feasible (post-mythgen, of course) for a player's various DF worlds to form a sort of "multiverse" similar to that of D&D? In the sense that different worlds generated within a single dataset could be connected in various ways and perhaps even have magical travel between some of them be possible? And if so, is this something you would actually have any interest in pursuing (which is perhaps the more important question)?

PatrikLundell: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8058546#msg8058546
Untrustedlife: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8058581#msg8058581

Yeah, as people have mentioned, it's tricky if you want them all to be doing stuff, and any non-primary worlds would need to be kept small.  It might be possible with some effort to take two small worlds and merge them into a single save file with portals, etc., and we've tossed around some ideas.  But there are so many possible info/object/mod conflicts etc. that is might be a true pain to implement.  Hopefully the easier versions, like running ten pockets as part of the same myth set/world but having them go their separate ways during history gen and then interconnecting them variously as you play a character or site in any of them, will capture a lot of what's interesting about the actual multiverse case.  But it would be cool to get at things like alternate timelines or multiple versions of the same character.

Quote from: Untrustedlife
One last question, more of a fun one. How much were you inspired by daggerfall? The impact on adventure mode is palpable. And in my opinion thats amazing.

Also when will you add openable/enterable windows in adventure mode so we can do a cat burgler style thing in order to enter the villains tower or something? by like climbing the wall then entering the window.

therahedwig: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8058712#msg8058712

Hmm, yeah, it's hard to say, really.  A lot of the things that look like influences from Daggerfall can probably be traced to Ultima/roguelikes/pnp/etc. and other stuff from before.  Though we did play Daggerfall a lot!  So direct influence is also certain.  It depends on the specifics.  C Dragslay had large maps with several towns and things before Daggerfall came out in '96 - Arena also had those but we never played or saw Arena (until this or last year.)  The scale was more from Starflight, for us, if anywhere, and several 80s games had overland travel maps.  And the many-building town maps also have earlier sources, though there I think Daggerfall was probably one of the things in mind, sort of.  It's hard to tease it all apart from this distance.  I may be forgetting something, but I think the spell editing system was probably the most influential thing about Daggerfall for us, and it's definitely part of what led us to our current plans - we had played Spellcraft and a few other earlier games that had hints of this, but Daggerfall was definitely the most brazen one we personally encountered.  Stuff like vampire/werewolf players is going to be hard for me to separate from other influences - it is very similar to Daggerfall, but I don't recall if it was even in mind when we did that, since we were in an overall horror mode at that point and player-monster parity is more of a Roguelike/Ultima thread for us.  But if we said, ooo you should be able to be a vampire in adv mode, and it didn't come out of fort mode thinking, Daggerfall would have been the thing, and it no doubt came up at some point.  Ha ha, it's a stew and I don't remember.  But maybe I mentioned it on here ten years ago?  I wouldn'r surprise me if it were a direct line through.

I have no idea when architecture is changing, generally.  I've actually been read a few architecture books since I last thought about it, as I was lamenting to a friend my lack of knowledge in the area, and they got me one for Christmas -- I recall somebody also mailed me one!  The suggestions forum is just one of many avenues, ha ha.  But yeah, the map rewrite is the next spot, but as I wrote earlier, it's not possible to promise much on any particular existing feature there, since so much will need to be done.

Quote from: scourge728
Is something going wrong behind the scenes that causes the forums to keep going down?

Obviously there's some kind of problem, but I have no expertise here.  I can't tell if it's the size of the forum when it is doing routine maintenance vs. resources available (there are large CPU spikes like clockwork which come from the routine automated maintenance, I think), and that sometimes gets in way of the server critters or what.
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Toady One

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2674 on: December 01, 2019, 10:22:50 pm »

Quote from: notquitethere
Will a smaller range of intelligent animalpeople be generated in world generation, or is the plan to always have all kinds of animalpeople appear in every world generated? Seems like a smaller range of civilisation-tier animalpeople would make for more distinct generated settings.
...
Maybe my question should be:

Will animalpeople ever be civilisation-level species on the same tier as dwarves, elves, humans and goblins?

Untrustedlife: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8059098#msg8059098
therahedwig: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8059132#msg8059132
PlumpHelmetMan: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8059174#msg8059174
FantasticDorf: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8059196#msg8059196
PatrikLundell: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8059201#msg8059201
notquitethere (op): http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8059206#msg8059206
Shonai_Dweller: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8059209#msg8059209

This is one of those cases where our initial plans didn't get much of an implementation, and now we're just going to blow it all up anyway with the myth stuff so it's just as well, in the way described by some of the responses, pretty much.  We've given some thought to universes where we have the current diversity vs. other universes where certain species are fully prioritized (as in most settings.)  We did this a bit in advance with the pops that move to towns and thus are playable in adv mode and get more heroes/soldiers etc. overall, but the full step up to civs is in there.  It wouldn't surprise me if we got some full-level civs in the myth pass, and then we saw the proper definitions for nomadic/etc. groups in the following push, as mentioned in the replies.

Quote
Quote from: Shonai_Dweller
Randomly jumping back to mounts (so many new things to play with in the upcoming release!). The new mechanics for controlling mounts also applies to npc mounts now (in fortress mode unless adventurer npc mounts have also been added), right? So mounts will go where the rider wants to go, rather than where they might want to go themselves? I just want to check that this solves the whole amphibious mounts pathing through water and killing their rider issue (unless the rider stops being able to control the mount for whatever reason, I suppose).
Quote from: Untrustedlife
Why would he change how mounts work in one context while not changing the other. Toady avoids doing weird game mode specific things like that as according to him they are a nightmare to deal with. So i imagine he also fixed those. Also how do your adventruer companions with mounts act, because you can have that now, if they have AI that takes that into account so do invaders. If they dont, invaders wont.

Oh wow, i just came up with another question.
How does the game treat retired characters with mounts, do the mounts just hang out in the village then with their hist-fig names or do they become stray, or do they just dissappear?

therahedwig: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8059479#msg8059479
Shonai_Dweller: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8059647#msg8059647

Ha ha, I don't think the mount change made it all the way to fort mode.  It's all the same underneath, but the AI layers are different, so this isn't surprising.  But I'll check to see if it'll be quick to turn on.

I think they'll hang out in the village and not become stray, but if their master travels or moves, they might not come along.

Quote from: MalroktheIII
1:If kidnapping is a possibility, will my fortress be able to kidnap enemy leaders (or just historical figures in general)?
2:Along the same lines, will captured enemies/caged sentients be able to get themselves free/take over the fortress from within by using my dwarves?
3:If vampires/necromancers generally become evil by default, will my vampire necromancer fortress end up spawning hundreds of new villains?

Untrustedlife: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8059923#msg8059923
EternalCaveDragon: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8059953#msg8059953
Untrustedlife: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8059961#msg8059961

1: Yeah, if we get there, it likely won't be restricted, though there is the issue of which names you should even know.
2: Hmm, I don't think caged critters have access to any chat, and even the chained ones don't have the proper infiltration information up and running.  So it would take a different explicit push in that direction which we haven't done.
3: Ha ha, well, I'm not sure exactly what would happen.  As long as they get back in network building mode, I imagine they'd start subordinating each other so it wouldn't be a hundred separate networks at odds with each other.  A giant vampire necromancer fortress was bound to be trouble for the world over time.

Quote from: FrankVill
It is a fact that DF will be more complex and bigger over the years. In addition their technical requirements will be increasingly demanding. There would not be a PC powerful enough today to run the Final Version if it existed right now (perhaps the exception would be a quantum computer or a super server).
For a project proposed for long-term development, what criteria do you follow so that each version of DF is consistent with technological progress? Perhaps you consider Moore's law?
How often do you renew or increase the characteristics of your PC or laptop due to the development requirements?

Shonai_Dweller: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8060158#msg8060158
Untrustedlife: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8060170#msg8060170
Untrustedlife: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8060174#msg8060174

Yeah, I don't have any particular criteria or protocol I use.  I update my computer when it breaks, so it usual tends to be fairly old, until it breaks, at which point it becomes fairly new for a sec.  Being complicated doesn't slow things down much, compared to just having a large number of agents, so our plans our mostly low impact and fine.

Quote
Quote from: Shonai_Dweller
What do you see as the purpose of a guild in a fortress? Without an economy or any real trade competition, they are....what? Social clubs?

From a Dorf point of view temples are a thing, because dorfs have religious needs plus gathering/socializing. Taverns are a thing because dorfs have a need for entertainment plus gathering/socializing. Guilds are a thing....because...demands provide a gameplay challenge (same as nobles)?

Apologies for slight pessimism, I wasn't around when guilds were last a thing.

Oh, and:

Will entertainers have a chance to get together and demand stuff? Seems like with priests demanding better temples and guilds demanding better guildhalls, entertainers lead by the tavernkeeper might demand bigger, better dance floors and especially more instruments for the tavern (put a stop to all that beatboxing). #notasuggestionatall

And, sorry, one more thing:

Are the guild numbers 10 and 25 moddable?
Quote from: PatrikLundell
Are you considering making the guild formation/progression thresholds player adjustable?
This is, of course, a thinly veiled request... The issue I see is that small fortresses (like the ones I've played) won't get those numbers (I'm not that worried about the full guild complex one for my case). Also, depending on how they behave, players may want to disable them for one reason or another, and an easy way to do that is to jack the formation threshold up through the roof.

ZM5: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8060315#msg8060315
Shonai_Dweller: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8060317#msg8060317
PatrikLundell: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8060363#msg8060363
therahedwig: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8060364#msg8060364

Yeah, the guilds are certainly a bit early, considering all that they could be hooked into and what they'd need to justify their existence on a historical basis.  They were even stranger before - there was a death cult that demanded quality tombs for living people, as I recall, or something like that.  And weapon cults that demanded weapon production?  I imagine this would be like the new military orders, now, which aren't in fort mode yet but are sitting there to be done (and how does that intersect with squads and player militaries...  an open question.)  We're starting with some reasonable requests, but we're hoping that it isn't just about requests and negative reactions - people mentioned the skill demonstrations we'd like to add, and the longer term goals like apprenticeships for young dwarves and such things all fit in here.  Toward life texture and possible political conflicts and such things.  But the early bit is just sorta a marker, and it sprang up from the w.g. addition we did for link forming.

Ha ha, I haven't done anything with entertainers, though they should get more clout if they deserve it.  I imagine that would depend on having enough fans or friends in high places, whereas the guild workers can shut down your fort directly, once they are so empowered.

Yeah, I should be init-ifying the most simple and player-facing numbers like this, though I often fail to do so.  You'll have these, anyway!

Quote from: therahedwig
Are guilds per job type or per job category? (So are we going to see farmer's and woodworking's guilds, or are we going to see pottery and carpentry guilds? Or Both?)
Will trade corporations also make an appearance in player forts? They're separate from craft guilds, right?
Do you think we'll see prophets and religious persecution show up in player forts? Or can we assume all prophets to be hacks?

Shonai_Dweller: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8060373#msg8060373
therahedwig (op): http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8060382#msg8060382

There are broad guilds and narrow guilds, both kinds.

Yeah, merchant companies are separate and we haven't done anything with them.  Time may not permit.  We were thinking of letting them establish a counting house and move a factor into your fort, which would have the benefit of adding an extra caravan with them or something, as a simple step.  But we might not get to even that, especially if we'd get into some kind of multi-depot trouble with it etc.

As I recall, there are pilgrims to temples in the current version?  The villains come as those.  I didn't add new non-villain fort visitor types, even though w.g. infiltrators can be prophets.  Didn't do any fort persecution -- that's all ultimately state action when it goes down in the game currently, anyway, if I remember, so it'd be player-driven.  Though priest sermons may end up going bad as they do in w.g., which builds bad sentiment there.

Quote from: therahedwig
Does using the dice at a shrine count as communicating with that deity in terms of needs?

Nope!  I suppose it's very complicated if it should or not, or how other rituals fit in with that particular need.  We'd need more information on how relationships with the deity are defined I guess, or the need needs to be broadened or respect those.

Quote
Quote from: Flying Teasets
Will the guilds restrict entrance to their profession and hide trade secrets like their historical counterparts?
Quote from: FantasticDorf
I feel some of my questions i have right now feel kind of premature until we recieve some clarity about what exactly guild members do, possibility of visitors and any sort of special functions i feel Toady wants to keep hush hush.

Its nice that guild halls seem to have a working men's club theme about sociabilty (though in the terms of organised dwarf labor, there is no such gender distinction) that will be helpful. And that you seem relatively confident in their ability to talk amongst themselves in the meeting areas.

Are dwarves driven to make and join guilds based on personality facets (appreciation of craftmanship) or is it just hardwired related to experience?

I would be suprised if it wasn't the case, but it'd be particularly interesting to see a modding applied race swap-out or player grooming of civilization values because it inferrs that lazy/unappreciative dwarves do not make or assotiate with guilds, and that the mechanic could potentially be applied in reverse for negative value required organisations

    Be assured, players will take the *utmost* care in censuring high nature value druid cults full of peace and nature loving brainwashed dwarves.

Seperately -Will we have any control over the profession training regime? As im worried about my dwarves spending more time training to do a job than actually working to earn xp, as well as some discretion a player could personally bring.

Mainly thinking of the examples of military training, where if you can tease the military schedule screen into doing what you want through the gui menu's you can essentially create the training scenario you desire including lowering/raising the number of participants and selecting individuals to train specifically with one another which often works out well.

PatrikLundell: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8060431#msg8060431
therahedwig: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8060533#msg8060533
Shonai_Dweller: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8060544#msg8060544

It's all boring currently - we'd like them to do more, as stated elsewhere in this FotF, but they don't currently.  We haven't done the skill demonstrations yet so I'm not sure what that will look like - if it is an augmented form of socializing in guild spaces, it shouldn't impact time too badly.

Quote from: Shonai_Dweller
Do green dwarves (rangers, hunters, etc) get a guild? Because demands for a room full of animal parts on pedestals sounds kind of cool.

If I have an opulent guildhall with everything a dwarf from a farming related profession could ever want, will I still be getting stressed dwarves demanding a regular sub-chapter guildhall for the 10 brewers?

They get a guild, yeah, though I haven't gotten to any of the pedestal stuff.  It would be pretty cool for them to move trophies there.

The brewers want recognition!  It's a matter of dignity.  But yeah, it is a touch odd when there is just one subchapter and they also make up most of the broad group - it doesn't really feel like a two-guild situation and it will probably be tweaked later, once we get a feel for all the weird cases.

Quote from: Beag
Will the new craft halls and updated temples also appear in generated sites such as hamlets, towns, hillock and mountain homes or is it something that can only occur in player forts?

Shonai_Dweller: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8060856#msg8060856
Untrustedlife: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8060939#msg8060939

Yeah, they appear in sites.

Quote from: CatG0d
I have been thinking a lot lately about how fast technology and the way coding is done have progressed over the past decade, with things such as neural networks coming to mind, so I have a few questions based on this topic:

1. What technology or discovery (if any) do you wish you had available when you first started work on DF?
2. What newer technology would you like to implement at one point in DF?
3. What possible future technology are you most excited about, especially when it comes to developing DF?
4. I know this will be a weird comparison, but I feel DF may end up a lot like a space probe, where a project started way later will surpass it because of advancements in computers and programming. How would you feel if another team started another project like DF (so a fantasy world simulator-generator) and ended up "overtaking you"?
5.This a bit more specific but I would like to ask someone who has a lot more experience in coding than me. I know there is this discussion about how the AI in the world will adapt to new mechanics introduced by random magic systems (such as free teleportation for everyone making doors obsolete). I was wondering if it would be possible to use some sort of self-learning AI at world gen (helped by a lot of already written background code) to generate realistic behavior in actors, or would that instantly kill any CPU?

1-3. I don't really keep up on this sort of thing.  Certainly if I had more education and skills in terms of, say, multithreading or code architecture when I was starting out, that would have been better, but in terms of specific technologies I just don't have any idea.
4. Hasn't this happened several times already?  It depends on what you mean.  We expected to become irrelevant fairly quickly when we were starting out, and that doesn't seem to have happened, specifically, but there are lots of related projects out there more played than ours.
5. It's well beyond me and I think it would be difficult to get it working and feasible.  Even ignoring the magic etc., just getting people to react to a normal situation and change etc. is quite difficult, and we take little baby steps to make things better.  It'll be enough if the game even works once it gets very strange in certain magic universes, ha ha ha.

Quote from: Untrustedlife
Speaking of inconsistencies, Tarn, i killed a bronze collosus , when i told the lady she said it was inevitable, but then i asked her what she thought of me and she said i was suddenly a legendary hero. Any plans to improve the responses?

It's just not done most places.  As you know, "It was inevitable" is everywhere, and it just indicates something they don't send through any kind of thought routine most of the time.  I have no idea when I'll next work on it.

Quote from: Nopenope
What gameplay role do priests have? Are they like tavern keepers?

Could you do a breakdown of how reputation works in adventure mode (different types, scales, actions required)? The wiki is very unclear.

Who gets an abstract 'account' in worldgen? Is it specific to sites, buildings, histfigs?

If I understand well, sabotage in worldgen is abstractly harming someone's 'account', and embezzling is transferring from one account to another. How does that manifest in fort mode? Does the fort also have an account?

What kind of hideouts do villains have? I read something about an abandoned monastery in the devlogs but are there other types of sites (apart from the ones that are inherent to histfigs like necro towers ordemon spires)

Do bandits have specific forts now or do they stay in camps?

How do the worldgen relationship variables such as loyalty, fear, trust etc. interplay with fort mode relationships and emotions? With adventurer reputation?

Sorry if I missed it, but are adventurers' ability to conduct their own plots (e.g. to steal artifacts) still on the table? What about fortress counter-espionage, will that entail stuff like assassinating histfigs offsite?

Do mercenary forts send visitors to your fort? In fact, what do they actually do post-wg? What about monasteries?

Untrustedlife: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8061539#msg8061539

We still need to finish the tasks, but they should be different from tavern keepers and actually be beneficial in terms of stress reduction.  Unless we make them talk shit about other groups in their sermons like w.g. priests do.  That would be uncharitable of them.

Rep: in the currently released version, there are 32 sorts, with corresponding utterances, but they aren't equal or even necessarily numeric.  It's all handled dynamically based on incident/rumor/entity-membership knowledge, so it can be slippery to pin things down, especially in the cases where somebody has died, since people can go a few levels deep to ascertain what they think about that (and still too often end up with nothing.)  Once events/etc. go stale, a simple numeric reputation is captured for those events, and that lives inside entities and historical figures that are thinking about a given person (some events are entity level, some hf level, some both.)  The utterances are shifted in ranges 1-24, 25-49, 50-74, 75-99, 100+, oftentimes, so many reputations have five verbal levels.  So for example, you get 25 hero points for reuniting two people if the thinker has a positive feeling about either of them, or a positive entity affiliation with either - you get 100 hero points from either of the reunited people regardless of affiliation.  Whereas an entity itself gives you a hero rep for reuniting people with positions, and that is felt by all members -- this should arguably be extended to anybody with membership, but if there's a reason I didn't do that it is currently lost to time.  And so on.  We do have the conversation people try to give the top reason they feel you have a rep of a given kind, but we can surely do more.

Entities and historical figures currently.  It is very abstract and not stored in a site/building location at all.

We don't embezzle in fort mode yet - we just have them steal stuff so that it actually matters.  Not sure we'll do more for this time.

Hideouts: there are a few new ones like the monasteries, (return of) castles, and merc/bandit forts.  There are also the city towers (and city houses, but those look the same as they did before.)  The necro towers are revamped.  Don't remember if there were others.

Yeah, large-enough bandit groups have forts.

Ha ha, the new variables are just a mess of new roll modifiers etc. with some new utterances, changed upon certain actions.  It mostly comes in during the traitor conversion (which is a giant mess of equations, but I've added a lot of tracing for history event/evidence purposes for once, so you can see some of it) and interrogation currently, so it's not a broad thing.  If it works out well, it'll spread out and become more integrated.

Adv villains are on the table, and also one of the things that might have to be put off, depending on time.  This month will determine a lot of things.  The Steam clock is ticking (in an actual deadline-like way to a meaningful extent), so we must get moving - it has been more than a year and I haven't started real coding there yet, since we've been winding up this release in typical fashion.  But we'll return to the big ticket items we miss before leaving again for the Big Wait.

We haven't yet integrated full mercenary companies or monasteries in fort mode.  Mercs can be individually hired post w.g. for plots, but the big civs don't engage with companies for their wars yet.  This is one of the possible guild/temple/etc.-like additions for fort mode, and we'll see what we get!  It would be fairly easy to get a villain or civ to hire a merc company to attack your fort, for instance, the way things are now, but it might be for later.

Quote from: JesterHell696
1. What skills if any have already been slated for addition to adventure mode?

2. One of the most common maps made in any game are real world ones, Europe, North America, Africa etc and given that it is already possible to use advanced world gen to create and save "static" maps have you given any though to including some real world height maps in the Steam Release or do you think that is something for modders?

3. With the rise of organisations and the return of guilds I wondering if there are any plans for thing like the Assassin Guild, Thieves Guild or even a generic Adventurers Guild?

4. If these are not planned would they be mod-able?

5. How do you view Nobility and noble politics occurring? do Noble families act like organisations plotting and planning against one another or are they more like loose affiliations with no real goal?

6. With all the changes to adventure mode thanks to the addition of the party system I was wondering if it was now possible to choose what god you worship and how faithful you are?

7. What about choosing your adventurers description? as it is I (F) full random until I get large body for the added attack force.

8. With the addition of multiple lovers are mundane plots of petty grudges or jilted lovers seeking revenge on their own a thing? like hiring their own assassin and paying for it with a family heirloom with no overarching villain plot or corruption being needed?

9. I was also wondering are fighting pits and arenas planned? Arenas seem like one of the easiest ways to add a adventure mode "career" path.

10. With the addition of adventure mode parties is adventure mode receiving an "embark" screen where we can actually equip our adventurers before embarking on adventure?

11. If we are getting an adventure mode embark screen will we also be able to set the points available in advanced world gen like we can with fortress embarks?

Shonai_Dweller: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8061602#msg8061602

1. For next time, some of the speaking skills are used now, and there's the new intrigue skill which can come up in interrogation.  At the same time, I allowed the taking of any civ skill, for the new character sheet background purposes.  They are not used yet.
2. That seems more like a mod thing, since we don't have any close real-world analogues, unlike a game like, say, Civ.
3-4. The new military orders fill some of these roles now.  We haven't added them to fort mode yet.
5. In some technical way, this happens a bit now with villains plotting coups in certain civs of which they are a part, but they should be more "aware" of it, and their broader affilitiations for it to carry over.  But I think that'll keep some intentionality in it.  But as for whether they are loose or bonded seems like it should depend on the value set as much as anything.
6,8,10-11. As Shonai_Dweller confirmed, yeah.
7. Nah, this is still elusive for annoying technical reasons to do with how 'genes' are stored and tied to descriptions, but if we had a touch of time we'd just blow that up and let the mismatched kids happen at this point, since it would be cool to let you set it.
9. Yeah, we've wanted them for years.  Just never seem to get there.

Quote from: LordBaal
Are you gonna tackle apprenticeship with this update? What about making workshops an area just like guildhalls?

Shonai_Dweller: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8061604#msg8061604

Yeah, workshops too big to bite off for now.  Apprenticeships too, ha ha.
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clinodev

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2675 on: December 01, 2019, 10:42:22 pm »

Thanks as always for the replies!

I see a lot of excitement in the broader community about religion and guild changes! I'm definitely looking forward to them myself; I've been joking that you're unknowingly implementing my personal play style and role play as core mechanics,  :D
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Untrustedlife

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2676 on: December 01, 2019, 11:15:25 pm »

Thanks toady!
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JesterHell696

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2677 on: December 02, 2019, 03:02:09 am »

Thanks for the answers Toady and Shonai.
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"The long-term goal is to create a fantasy world simulator in which it is possible to take part in a rich history, occupying a variety of roles through the course of several games." Bay 12 DF development page

"My stance is that Dwarf Fortress is first and foremost a simulation and that balance is a secondary objective that is always secondary to it being a simulation while at the same time cannot be ignored completely." -Neonivek

Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2678 on: December 02, 2019, 03:40:43 am »

Thanks for the answers Toady and Shonai.
All I do is dig up answers Toady's already given. :)
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therahedwig

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2679 on: December 02, 2019, 02:28:09 pm »

Thanks for the answers! I guess I'll be eagle eying the priests from now on. ò_ó

Good luck with getting done what you want to have done this month! I myself am neutral towards adventure mode villains, but that's also because I just suck at role playing evil, but I can totally understand you'd want to have players to be able to push as well as pull in the same release.
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JesterHell696

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2680 on: December 02, 2019, 03:08:26 pm »

All I do is dig up answers Toady's already given. :)

It still helps both Toady, myself and others so it fits.
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"The long-term goal is to create a fantasy world simulator in which it is possible to take part in a rich history, occupying a variety of roles through the course of several games." Bay 12 DF development page

"My stance is that Dwarf Fortress is first and foremost a simulation and that balance is a secondary objective that is always secondary to it being a simulation while at the same time cannot be ignored completely." -Neonivek

sly_urist

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2681 on: December 02, 2019, 03:47:46 pm »

Hey there! Long time player and forum lurker, I've had a couple of questions on my mind for a few months related to the graphics release and I guess I've felt intimidated in asking, but here I go:

I am currently making my own tileset for the game. With the upcoming graphical release, are we going to be able to finally have gendered tiles? If so, will we be able to have male and female tiles for each profession? Secondly, if this is happening, will you be adding trans gendered to dwarfs to the game that use tiles from the opposing gender (or even allow a third androgynous gender)?

Also, are we going to be allowed to now have ghost and zombie tiles for specific professions? I.e. a tile for a male miner zombie and a different tile for a female farmer ghost?

Lastly, will we be able to have custom tiles for forgotten beast\titan\secret-fun-thing subtypes (such as separate tiles for Sauropod and Spider beasts), and will we be able to assign tiles (or at least colors) for material types like a beast made from mucus or gabbro?
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2682 on: December 02, 2019, 04:17:21 pm »

Hey there! Long time player and forum lurker, I've had a couple of questions on my mind for a few months related to the graphics release and I guess I've felt intimidated in asking, but here I go:

I am currently making my own tileset for the game. With the upcoming graphical release, are we going to be able to finally have gendered tiles? If so, will we be able to have male and female tiles for each profession? Secondly, if this is happening, will you be adding trans gendered to dwarfs to the game that use tiles from the opposing gender (or even allow a third androgynous gender)?

Also, are we going to be allowed to now have ghost and zombie tiles for specific professions? I.e. a tile for a male miner zombie and a different tile for a female farmer ghost?

Lastly, will we be able to have custom tiles for forgotten beast\titan\secret-fun-thing subtypes (such as separate tiles for Sauropod and Spider beasts), and will we be able to assign tiles (or at least colors) for material types like a beast made from mucus or gabbro?

The guys making the new tileset for the paid releases have their own thread here:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=173474.0

And they work with Toady (no idea how closely) so they know the kind of graphics enhancements he's planning. You might get more info quicker from them rather than here where there's another 30 days until the answer.
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Death Dragon

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2683 on: December 03, 2019, 03:21:53 pm »

I am currently making my own tileset for the game. With the upcoming graphical release, are we going to be able to finally have gendered tiles? If so, will we be able to have male and female tiles for each profession? Secondly, if this is happening, will you be adding trans gendered to dwarfs to the game that use tiles from the opposing gender (or even allow a third androgynous gender)?
Nothing has been set in stone yet, but it's looking like there is a possibility that civilised creature sprites will be dynamically created based on their physical appearance (hair style, colours, etc) and the stuff that they are actually wearing.
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JesterHell696

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2684 on: December 03, 2019, 06:52:07 pm »

After reading Toady's and Shonai's replies I went back and reread some dev logs to rejig my memory, this in-turn inspired more questions.

There has been a lot of talk about player villain plots but I was wondering about player mercenaries, can the player join a mercenary company and go to battle earning some of the "Honors" that the company may have?



For next time, some of the speaking skills are used now,

After rereading the dev logs I can see that intimidation seems confirmed but can you tell us what other speaking skills are already slated for next release?

there's the new intrigue skill which can come up in interrogation.

While rereading the dev logs I saw that you added an "intrigue" tab, is this what the intrigue skill governs? and if yes in what way?

Also given that we will presumably be able to use judge intent to tell how characters are feeling I must ask, is it finally possible to see the fear in your enemies eyes while they beg for their lives right before they die? Or to put it another way if is start talking to someone I'm fighting will it tell me how afraid/confident they are feeling without utterances?


At the same time, I allowed the taking of any civ skill, for the new character sheet background purposes.  They are not used yet.

I saw that in the dev log where you mentioned enabling civ skill picks during character creation you mentioned wider skill use in adventure mode but said "not yet".

My question is what do you mean by "not yet"? more specifically by "not yet" do you mean not before Steam release (my hope) or not before the Big Wait/Myth Arc (my fear).


Edit 1: Question Color
Edit 2: Question Clarification.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2019, 06:28:48 am by JesterHell696 »
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"The long-term goal is to create a fantasy world simulator in which it is possible to take part in a rich history, occupying a variety of roles through the course of several games." Bay 12 DF development page

"My stance is that Dwarf Fortress is first and foremost a simulation and that balance is a secondary objective that is always secondary to it being a simulation while at the same time cannot be ignored completely." -Neonivek
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