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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 549896 times)

Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2685 on: December 03, 2019, 07:08:18 pm »

At the same time, I allowed the taking of any civ skill, for the new character sheet background purposes.  They are not used yet.

I saw that in the dev log where you mentioned enabling civ skill picks during character creation you mentioned wider skill use in adventure mode but said "not yet".

My question is what do you mean by "not yet"?

Specifically do you mean not before Steam release (my hope) or not before the Big Wait/Myth Arc (my fear).


Edit: Question Color
"Not yet" presumably means you can pick brewing skill (for example) for your player character, but there's no opportunity in Adventurer to actually use it yet.
Handy for mods where you can, I expect. Wouldn't expect any more major changes in Adventurer unless Steam release goes speedily and Toady suddenly decides to add a bunch of bonus crafting opportunities.
No great loss if he doesn't, there are already mods which add these functions.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2019, 07:11:33 pm by Shonai_Dweller »
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JesterHell696

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2686 on: December 04, 2019, 06:42:55 am »

"Not yet" presumably means you can pick brewing skill (for example) for your player character, but there's no opportunity in Adventurer to actually use it yet.
Handy for mods where you can, I expect. Wouldn't expect any more major changes in Adventurer unless Steam release goes speedily and Toady suddenly decides to add a bunch of bonus crafting opportunities.
No great loss if he doesn't, there are already mods which add these functions.

Yeah I understood that bit but was wondering about when Toady plans to expanded upon adventure mode skills and makes these background skill choices usable and the line I'm thinking of is about doing just that.

Quote from: Dev_Log
07/17/2019 - Toady One - I started with some character sheet issues this time around. To keep up with some promises from old Future of the Fortresses for the new adventurers, I allowed the purchase of item quality in chargen, and the selection of religion, including the organized ones, depending on what town you start in and its history. I also changed the 'hearthperson or not' choice to allow for a variety of regular professional backgrounds, which mostly don't do anything in adv mode yet, but they give free skills which'll allow you to have some useful skills if you decide to retire in or move to a fort. At some point we'll get to wider skill use in adventure mode, but not yet!

I was wondering if "not yet" meant not before steam release or not before the big wait.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2687 on: December 04, 2019, 07:01:28 am »

"Not yet" presumably means you can pick brewing skill (for example) for your player character, but there's no opportunity in Adventurer to actually use it yet.
Handy for mods where you can, I expect. Wouldn't expect any more major changes in Adventurer unless Steam release goes speedily and Toady suddenly decides to add a bunch of bonus crafting opportunities.
No great loss if he doesn't, there are already mods which add these functions.

Yeah I understood that bit but was wondering about when Toady plans to expanded upon adventure mode skills and makes these background skill choices usable and the line I'm thinking of is about doing just that.

Quote from: Dev_Log
07/17/2019 - Toady One - I started with some character sheet issues this time around. To keep up with some promises from old Future of the Fortresses for the new adventurers, I allowed the purchase of item quality in chargen, and the selection of religion, including the organized ones, depending on what town you start in and its history. I also changed the 'hearthperson or not' choice to allow for a variety of regular professional backgrounds, which mostly don't do anything in adv mode yet, but they give free skills which'll allow you to have some useful skills if you decide to retire in or move to a fort. At some point we'll get to wider skill use in adventure mode, but not yet!

I was wondering if "not yet" meant not before steam release or not before the big wait.
We'll see. I imagine it's not likely to be part of the Villains release. Plans for Adventurer have been laid out fairly clearly and some parts may even be cut for time. Adding crafting and such wasn't in the initial plan.

The important thing is he seems to have added the skills for selection during character creation. That's a big bonus for those mods which add Adventurer skills.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2019, 07:04:45 am by Shonai_Dweller »
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therahedwig

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2688 on: December 04, 2019, 07:53:18 am »

Well, the 'adventure mode medical improvements' suggests adventurers will at the least be able to understand how bandages work before the myth dev cycle.

But I suspect the main problem is tools. Woodworking and bonecarving right now uses any sharp tool, writing requires quires/scrolls, performances only require skills and knowledge, but I guess something like leather and clothmaking requires needles and scissors... But I guess so do sutures... Ah well, let's wait for the answer :)
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2689 on: December 04, 2019, 08:08:21 am »

Well, the 'adventure mode medical improvements' suggests adventurers will at the least be able to understand how bandages work before the myth dev cycle.

But I suspect the main problem is tools. Woodworking and bonecarving right now uses any sharp tool, writing requires quires/scrolls, performances only require skills and knowledge, but I guess something like leather and clothmaking requires needles and scissors... But I guess so do sutures... Ah well, let's wait for the answer :)
Yeah, tools. The adventurer sites update just abouts got away with that with axes and sharp knives to give you the bare minimum needed. But I imagine the rest is being put off until a good go at making it all realistic can be made. That and having the NPC's of the world use their tools and workshops too.

Hopefully get the medical stuff at least before the Big Wait.
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Untrustedlife

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2690 on: December 04, 2019, 10:20:43 am »

Well, the 'adventure mode medical improvements' suggests adventurers will at the least be able to understand how bandages work before the myth dev cycle.

But I suspect the main problem is tools. Woodworking and bonecarving right now uses any sharp tool, writing requires quires/scrolls, performances only require skills and knowledge, but I guess something like leather and clothmaking requires needles and scissors... But I guess so do sutures... Ah well, let's wait for the answer :)

Woodowrking actually uses a carpenters workshop in adventure mode right now aswell. You have to {b}uild it before you can do carpentery. I imagine thats where the "tools" are abstracted away. So he could do similar things for the other skills.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2019, 10:22:35 am by Untrustedlife »
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2691 on: December 04, 2019, 04:37:23 pm »

Well, the 'adventure mode medical improvements' suggests adventurers will at the least be able to understand how bandages work before the myth dev cycle.

But I suspect the main problem is tools. Woodworking and bonecarving right now uses any sharp tool, writing requires quires/scrolls, performances only require skills and knowledge, but I guess something like leather and clothmaking requires needles and scissors... But I guess so do sutures... Ah well, let's wait for the answer :)

Woodowrking actually uses a carpenters workshop in adventure mode right now aswell. You have to {b}uild it before you can do carpentery. I imagine thats where the "tools" are abstracted away. So he could do similar things for the other skills.
Ah, sorry, haven't done that in a while. Was thinking the workshop still needed a tool in hand to use.

If it's simple to add new workshops then we might see some more. Although with plans to scrap workshops, it would probably be low priority compared to everything else (considering the current plans are already on the verge of being cut).

Can you add available workshops for adventurers through basic raw modding?
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Untrustedlife

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2692 on: December 04, 2019, 07:04:06 pm »

Well, the 'adventure mode medical improvements' suggests adventurers will at the least be able to understand how bandages work before the myth dev cycle.

But I suspect the main problem is tools. Woodworking and bonecarving right now uses any sharp tool, writing requires quires/scrolls, performances only require skills and knowledge, but I guess something like leather and clothmaking requires needles and scissors... But I guess so do sutures... Ah well, let's wait for the answer :)

Woodowrking actually uses a carpenters workshop in adventure mode right now aswell. You have to {b}uild it before you can do carpentery. I imagine thats where the "tools" are abstracted away. So he could do similar things for the other skills.
Ah, sorry, haven't done that in a while. Was thinking the workshop still needed a tool in hand to use.

If it's simple to add new workshops then we might see some more. Although with plans to scrap workshops, it would probably be low priority compared to everything else (considering the current plans are already on the verge of being cut).

Can you add available workshops for adventurers through basic raw modding?

Maybe i should explain better, it requires the workshop and something sharp thats why i said "aswell", but you cant do it with just the sharp tool. You need the workshop aswell.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2019, 07:05:42 pm by Untrustedlife »
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Check out the open source simulation game I am also developing!
Thrive
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2693 on: December 04, 2019, 08:52:06 pm »

Well, the 'adventure mode medical improvements' suggests adventurers will at the least be able to understand how bandages work before the myth dev cycle.

But I suspect the main problem is tools. Woodworking and bonecarving right now uses any sharp tool, writing requires quires/scrolls, performances only require skills and knowledge, but I guess something like leather and clothmaking requires needles and scissors... But I guess so do sutures... Ah well, let's wait for the answer :)

Woodowrking actually uses a carpenters workshop in adventure mode right now aswell. You have to {b}uild it before you can do carpentery. I imagine thats where the "tools" are abstracted away. So he could do similar things for the other skills.
Ah, sorry, haven't done that in a while. Was thinking the workshop still needed a tool in hand to use.

If it's simple to add new workshops then we might see some more. Although with plans to scrap workshops, it would probably be low priority compared to everything else (considering the current plans are already on the verge of being cut).

Can you add available workshops for adventurers through basic raw modding?

Maybe i should explain better, it requires the workshop and something sharp thats why i said "aswell", but you cant do it with just the sharp tool. You need the workshop aswell.
Yes, so that's an indication of the extra level of detail Toady presumably wants to see throughout Adventurer over fortress mode. It's not just a matter of switching on new workshops.
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Untrustedlife

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2694 on: December 04, 2019, 10:37:44 pm »

Well, the 'adventure mode medical improvements' suggests adventurers will at the least be able to understand how bandages work before the myth dev cycle.

But I suspect the main problem is tools. Woodworking and bonecarving right now uses any sharp tool, writing requires quires/scrolls, performances only require skills and knowledge, but I guess something like leather and clothmaking requires needles and scissors... But I guess so do sutures... Ah well, let's wait for the answer :)

Woodowrking actually uses a carpenters workshop in adventure mode right now aswell. You have to {b}uild it before you can do carpentery. I imagine thats where the "tools" are abstracted away. So he could do similar things for the other skills.
Ah, sorry, haven't done that in a while. Was thinking the workshop still needed a tool in hand to use.

If it's simple to add new workshops then we might see some more. Although with plans to scrap workshops, it would probably be low priority compared to everything else (considering the current plans are already on the verge of being cut).

Can you add available workshops for adventurers through basic raw modding?

Maybe i should explain better, it requires the workshop and something sharp thats why i said "aswell", but you cant do it with just the sharp tool. You need the workshop aswell.
Yes, so that's an indication of the extra level of detail Toady presumably wants to see throughout Adventurer over fortress mode. It's not just a matter of switching on new workshops.

Hmm, i suppose so. Even if it is just one extra thing.
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My Roguelike on Itch.io with randomly generated creatures!
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Check out the open source simulation game I am also developing!
Thrive
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2695 on: December 06, 2019, 01:30:52 am »

Right now books are kind of artifacts, and they have a tendancy to be stolen by visitors (or they just, um, forgot to put them down or something...). Are these going to be generating reports?

If I accidentally kill a visitor and put his artifact on a pedestal, or even just in a stockpile, does the game know it's now mine and start generating suspicious activity reports for it?

Are the justice system updates going to make it slightly less impossible to track down and capture a visitor vampire?
(Not actually experienced this myself, so someone else might chime in with what the specific issue is there and how updating the justice system might account for it).
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2696 on: December 06, 2019, 05:57:57 am »

Post release, ill probably be interrogating everyone in my fortress at least once and otherwise for my entertainment to push the system as far as it'll go.

But is there any kind of secure 'duress' of dwarves/other when they're brought to the sheriff's or will say interrogating a P.O.W cage caught goblin for rumors about prisoners, tributed artifacts and further information suddenly lead to them breaking free and starting a slaughter depending that the sheriff ability to hold them still?

Keeping in mind this is a bridge we've already come to pass with the dangerous animal hauling job being relegated to using cage transferral now: If prisoners are not safe or trustworthy enough to bring into the office, can they be escorted to a cage inside the law enforcement office?

Sorry if my questions are relatively similar and related, it just there's a discrepency that a dangerous vampire might end up being apprehended peacefully, brought to office, accused and unmasked then go immediately hostile like they do in adventure mode and there wouldnt be any sort of way to secure them from a outburst (like having their hands tied) unless i already exploited disorientation to put dwarves inside a cage trap (regarding question #2)
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DG

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2697 on: December 06, 2019, 10:03:02 am »

Is it something like a pause-and-zoom announcement when citizens notice a missing artifact or is it a passive report that waits to be noticed?
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Untrustedlife

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2698 on: December 06, 2019, 11:20:31 am »

Will we finally be seeing a bit of justice in adventure mode in this release or is that still a ways off? Like could the lord of a village the adventurer angered send an actual assassin after you? Or is that all limited to villains, what if the lord is secretly a villain? Right now sometimes hearthpeople will attack you and follow you around in the village if you anger them in the current version/they run into you on patrol,  but that isnt much and it may be only limited to cases where you actually attack the meadhall (though im not sure).
« Last Edit: December 06, 2019, 11:22:30 am by Untrustedlife »
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therahedwig

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2699 on: December 06, 2019, 02:22:27 pm »

The previous fotfs have suggested the big benefit of turning villains into networks of agreements is that histfigs get a bunch of tools handed to them (like hiring assassins, blackmail, stealing) that they can apply as they see fit. So if any random villain is able to sent an assassin after you, any other random histfig should be able to do as well, if they are inclined and have the resources/contacts. So, yes, I think having assassins sent after you because you've murdered out half the hamlet might be a side effect for the next release.

The real question is whether being captured and interrogated will make it in ;)

Edit: while I am posting anyway.

I've been mucking about with books. I have noticed with certain book forms, like the biographical dictionary and the genealogy, that my adventurer just wrote an essay. Is that because these forms are not properly implemented yet, or is it because my adventurer just knows too little about the world? Because star charts are also not really implemented, but they do give a chart text instead of an essay.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2019, 02:26:03 pm by therahedwig »
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