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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 1669591 times)

Untrustedlife

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2835 on: January 29, 2020, 05:23:19 pm »

As therahedwig said , they are the same.
The reason they are the same is because tarn doesn't like having systems work differently in one mode or the other as that has in the past caused alot of problems (and still does, fire spreading etc. the difference between worldgen and actual play making "fast-forwarding" impossible etc) , so you can expect most new features to work the same in both modes as of a few versions ago.
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Beag

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2836 on: January 29, 2020, 06:45:52 pm »

1. Do any of the profession background skills our adventurer can now possess have any means of using them/training them?
2. Are there any special things our adventurers can do with the new array of possible starting items such as extracts and tools?
3. I played an escaped experiment and went to a necromancer tower, the necromancers and experiments were fine with me but the corrupted ones killed me, is this working as you intended?
4. Will you be releasing small patches for this update in the coming days as bug reports come in?
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PlumpHelmetMan

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2837 on: January 29, 2020, 06:54:23 pm »

1. Do any of the profession background skills our adventurer can now possess have any means of using them/training them?
2. Are there any special things our adventurers can do with the new array of possible starting items such as extracts and tools?
3. I played an escaped experiment and went to a necromancer tower, the necromancers and experiments were fine with me but the corrupted ones killed me, is this working as you intended?
4. Will you be releasing small patches for this update in the coming days as bug reports come in?


4. Definitely. Toady has confirmed that there will be a short period of bugfixing before he embarks on the Steam work.
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Untrustedlife

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2838 on: January 29, 2020, 07:09:28 pm »

Looks like evil regions spread pretty quickly in worldgen, does this mean maybe we can see them change in game?
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Untrustedlife

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2839 on: January 30, 2020, 01:32:52 am »

It seems to me that a large amount of the "lag" in heavily populated sites (eg human cities when next to a marketplace or highly populated tavern/whatever building) in vanilla dwarf fortress comes from the conversations happening that you dont actually see until they are close enough to hear. Have you ever considered reducing the amount of off screen conversation to speed up traversing these places?
« Last Edit: January 30, 2020, 01:37:15 am by Untrustedlife »
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2840 on: January 30, 2020, 02:29:10 am »

It seems to me that a large amount of the "lag" in heavily populated sites (eg human cities when next to a marketplace or highly populated tavern/whatever building) in vanilla dwarf fortress comes from the conversations happening that you dont actually see until they are close enough to hear. Have you ever considered reducing the amount of off screen conversation to speed up traversing these places?
Are you sure it's specifically the conversations causing lag and not just the way it's trying to update the movement of several hundred off-screen people/horses/beak-dogs at once.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2841 on: January 30, 2020, 02:32:41 am »

Are you going to wait until Premium DF is done and released before getting back to any of the Villains features, or is it enough to set up the graphics framework to allow the artists to test and improve their work before looking at some of the postponed features?
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2842 on: January 30, 2020, 03:46:16 am »

Are you going to wait until Premium DF is done and released before getting back to any of the Villains features, or is it enough to set up the graphics framework to allow the artists to test and improve their work before looking at some of the postponed features?
Given the amount of work that would be desirable for the Premium release, as well as how I interpret what Toady has said earlier, I'd expect the "only" parallel work to be bug fixes.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2843 on: January 30, 2020, 04:45:24 am »

Are you going to wait until Premium DF is done and released before getting back to any of the Villains features, or is it enough to set up the graphics framework to allow the artists to test and improve their work before looking at some of the postponed features?
Given the amount of work that would be desirable for the Premium release, as well as how I interpret what Toady has said earlier, I'd expect the "only" parallel work to be bug fixes.
Yes, I interpreted it that way. Then read some statements again and thought too much about it. And now it's the end of the month, so....
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pikachu17

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2844 on: January 30, 2020, 08:17:44 am »

Why did you not list in the file changes txt file the new tokens in the interaction examples folder? You didn't list the unhardcodeening of DEMON, UNIQUE_DEMON, or FEATURE_BEAST either.
When does a medium blessing happen?
Why can SUMMON_UNIT be limited by flags, but seemingly not by creature classes?
Can interactions change the weather to something other than HEAVY_FOG?
Is there any way for a modder to make the create item and upgrade item interactions work as a creature action?
What do SKILL_ROLL_RANGE, SKILL_IP, and ATTRIBUTE_IP do?

Also, has anyone put onto the bug tracker where if you make a creature have the HEALING_BLESSING interaction, when they heal someone, they won't appear healed on a 'l'ook or 'v'iew, but will be healed, and on the 'h'ealth screen will show the the various tissues healed but nothing about them? I have no real idea how to use the bug tracker.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2020, 01:43:20 pm by pikachu17 »
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Untrustedlife

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2845 on: January 30, 2020, 09:04:54 am »

It seems to me that a large amount of the "lag" in heavily populated sites (eg human cities when next to a marketplace or highly populated tavern/whatever building) in vanilla dwarf fortress comes from the conversations happening that you dont actually see until they are close enough to hear. Have you ever considered reducing the amount of off screen conversation to speed up traversing these places?
Are you sure it's specifically the conversations causing lag and not just the way it's trying to update the movement of several hundred off-screen people/horses/beak-dogs at once.

Im extremely sure itís conversations.
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iceball3

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2846 on: January 30, 2020, 09:19:47 am »

It seems to me that a large amount of the "lag" in heavily populated sites (eg human cities when next to a marketplace or highly populated tavern/whatever building) in vanilla dwarf fortress comes from the conversations happening that you dont actually see until they are close enough to hear. Have you ever considered reducing the amount of off screen conversation to speed up traversing these places?
Are you sure it's specifically the conversations causing lag and not just the way it's trying to update the movement of several hundred off-screen people/horses/beak-dogs at once.

Im extremely sure itís conversations.
Did you test for sure?
My best guess for a test would be modding in a race that is not capable of speech that occupy large areas like that, and seeing how performance changes.
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Untrustedlife

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2847 on: January 30, 2020, 09:33:19 am »

It seems to me that a large amount of the "lag" in heavily populated sites (eg human cities when next to a marketplace or highly populated tavern/whatever building) in vanilla dwarf fortress comes from the conversations happening that you dont actually see until they are close enough to hear. Have you ever considered reducing the amount of off screen conversation to speed up traversing these places?
Are you sure it's specifically the conversations causing lag and not just the way it's trying to update the movement of several hundred off-screen people/horses/beak-dogs at once.

Im extremely sure itís conversations.
Did you test for sure?
My best guess for a test would be modding in a race that is not capable of speech that occupy large areas like that, and seeing how performance changes.

Having a species that canít talk make a civ doesnít work all that well as far as I know so I havenít tried that. But you can see it in the new version easily enough. Necromancer towers filled with experiments that can talk are much slower. And you can see the exclamation points slowly pop up everywhere and when they stop you can walk. But itís not just those. Like I said it happens wherever isnít offloaded even if itís not on screen. And people really donít walk much they mostly just stand there talking.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2020, 09:39:54 am by Untrustedlife »
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nogoodnames

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2848 on: January 30, 2020, 10:31:11 am »

It seems to me that a large amount of the "lag" in heavily populated sites (eg human cities when next to a marketplace or highly populated tavern/whatever building) in vanilla dwarf fortress comes from the conversations happening that you dont actually see until they are close enough to hear. Have you ever considered reducing the amount of off screen conversation to speed up traversing these places?
Are you sure it's specifically the conversations causing lag and not just the way it's trying to update the movement of several hundred off-screen people/horses/beak-dogs at once.

Im extremely sure itís conversations.
Did you test for sure?
My best guess for a test would be modding in a race that is not capable of speech that occupy large areas like that, and seeing how performance changes.

Having a species that canít talk make a civ doesnít work all that well as far as I know so I havenít tried that. But you can see it in the new version easily enough. Necromancer towers filled with experiments that can talk are much slower. And you can see the exclamation points slowly pop up everywhere and when they stop you can walk. But itís not just those. Like I said it happens wherever isnít offloaded even if itís not on screen. And people really donít walk much they mostly just stand there talking.

Just tested this now. Spawned an adventurer in a large city and walked around, then saved and changed the raws to stop everyone from speaking. Disabling speech actually cut the FPS in half. While they were speaking I was getting 25-35 FPS but when they were mute it was 12-15. I suspect it's because, like you said, they're normally talking instead of moving around. Without any conversations going on, all they have to do is try to path everywhere.

As for the towers, it's probably just that there are more units loaded in. Or maybe the intelligent undead try to move around more often.
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Untrustedlife

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2849 on: January 30, 2020, 10:36:38 am »

It seems to me that a large amount of the "lag" in heavily populated sites (eg human cities when next to a marketplace or highly populated tavern/whatever building) in vanilla dwarf fortress comes from the conversations happening that you dont actually see until they are close enough to hear. Have you ever considered reducing the amount of off screen conversation to speed up traversing these places?
Are you sure it's specifically the conversations causing lag and not just the way it's trying to update the movement of several hundred off-screen people/horses/beak-dogs at once.

Im extremely sure itís conversations.
Did you test for sure?
My best guess for a test would be modding in a race that is not capable of speech that occupy large areas like that, and seeing how performance changes.

Having a species that canít talk make a civ doesnít work all that well as far as I know so I havenít tried that. But you can see it in the new version easily enough. Necromancer towers filled with experiments that can talk are much slower. And you can see the exclamation points slowly pop up everywhere and when they stop you can walk. But itís not just those. Like I said it happens wherever isnít offloaded even if itís not on screen. And people really donít walk much they mostly just stand there talking.

Just tested this now. Spawned an adventurer in a large city and walked around, then saved and changed the raws to stop everyone from speaking. Disabling speech actually cut the FPS in half. While they were speaking I was getting 25-35 FPS but when they were mute it was 12-15. I suspect it's because, like you said, they're normally talking instead of moving around. Without any conversations going on, all they have to do is try to path everywhere.

As for the towers, it's probably just that there are more units loaded in. Or maybe the intelligent undead try to move around more often.

Ill have to test this myself. I have a hard time believing that disabling an action they do all the time would lower fps. Unless theres something else going on. Them moving when not talking and only doing one or the other seems like a strange thing that should probably be a bug. What if you disable it while outside the city then enter the city. It could be causing issues to suddenly disable it while in a city.
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I am an indie game developer!
My Roguelike on Itch.io with randomly generated creatures!
Roguelegends: Dark Realms
Check out the open source simulation game I am also developing!
Thrive
My website untrustedlife.com
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