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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 2850352 times)

PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3420 on: August 14, 2020, 07:32:41 am »

So much to say about the new UI!
But I think I'll go with...

The top tab on the embark screen says "Dwarves". Is that a procedurally generated word that changes automatically in modded games? Or if not, can it be changed by modders?

(I understand the colors and things are likely moddable, but a lot of text in the current version is hard-coded, would be nice not to have more of it).
If the name doesn't reflect what's in the entity raw then it would likely be an oversight, but I guess it doesn't hurt much to use some forum space for a reminder (especially since prototypes cobbled together have a tendency not to be replaced with "proper" implementations in the SW industry).
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Yakefa

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3421 on: August 17, 2020, 10:03:27 am »

Hello,
I'm not a modder myself but I'm curious about modding possibilities. Anyone knows if the Toady is planning to make more of the hardcoded data accessible to modders for the steam version?
Basically giving full control to modders :)
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voliol

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3422 on: August 17, 2020, 10:48:44 am »

Hello,
I'm not a modder myself but I'm curious about modding possibilities. Anyone knows if the Toady is planning to make more of the hardcoded data accessible to modders for the steam version?
Basically giving full control to modders :)


Use lime green text for questions to Toady. I marked it for you here in case you miss this message.

LordBaal

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3423 on: August 17, 2020, 11:08:03 am »

The plan was (or is) to "rawify" as much as possibly on the game eventually. Don't think the steam version would change much of that but also I don't think it will push towards that goal either.
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I'm curious as to how a tank would evolve. Would it climb out of the primordial ooze wiggling it's track-nubs, feeding on smaller jeeps before crawling onto the shore having evolved proper treds?
My ship exploded midflight, but all the shrapnel totally landed on Alpha Centauri before anyone else did.  Bow before me world leaders!

PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3424 on: August 17, 2020, 11:49:11 am »

As LordBaal said, the long term goal is to make as much as possible available through raws. As also mentioned, there's been no indication that the Premium release will make a push at that effort (and I don't think it should: there are so many more urgent things that are actually in the Premium release's scope that will have to be cut due to time constraints).

The tile set/text separation will result in raw changes that allow tile sets to be selected independently of saves, so that's some raw changes that support modders, but it's more of a side effect.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2020, 11:51:35 am by PatrikLundell »
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3425 on: August 17, 2020, 12:04:43 pm »

Hello,
I'm not a modder myself but I'm curious about modding possibilities. Anyone knows if the Toady is planning to make more of the hardcoded data accessible to modders for the steam version?
Basically giving full control to modders :)


Quite a significant number of the boolean flags for this and that end up being mapped out and twiddled with via the DFhack github project and this is the foundational basis for a lot of DFhack scripts and community bit-patches that have emerged over the years, its really as close as anybody would get to anything that is not the RAWS without being either of the Adams brothers themselves.
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LordBaal

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3426 on: August 17, 2020, 01:24:22 pm »

As LordBaal said, the long term goal is to make as much as possible available through raws. As also mentioned, there's been no indication that the Premium release will make a push at that effort (and I don't think it should: there are so many more urgent things that are actually in the Premium release's scope that will have to be cut due to time constraints).

The tile set/text separation will result in raw changes that allow tile sets to be selected independently of saves, so that's some raw changes that support modders, but it's more of a side effect.
Im wondering, we will be able ti turn things like stairs and ramps directions.
I mean the graphics. Currently the ramps and stairs are represented by a single title each, so i.e. in graphic packages you have to decide if up stairs and down stairs go to the left or the rigth. The ramps currently are represented in the vertical direcction.

Its only a cosmetic and useless issue.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2020, 10:17:56 am by LordBaal »
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I'm curious as to how a tank would evolve. Would it climb out of the primordial ooze wiggling it's track-nubs, feeding on smaller jeeps before crawling onto the shore having evolved proper treds?
My ship exploded midflight, but all the shrapnel totally landed on Alpha Centauri before anyone else did.  Bow before me world leaders!

PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3427 on: August 18, 2020, 12:38:46 am »

Im wondering, we will be able ti turn things like stairs and ramps directions.
I fail to understand the question, so Toady might struggle as well. Is it a suggestion to add the ability to modify stairs from one version to another as direct commands rather than using the current alternatives? The subject of changing ramp directions does not make sense to me, since ramps always are on the lower level going up, with the indication on the level above just being an indication that there's a ramp below (rather than just showing the open space that's actually there), and ramps are magical in that they automatically morph to allow you to climb up in any direction in which the ramp is supported by a wall (although you still have to supply a flat space on the level above to step to for the ramp to work).
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LordBaal

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3428 on: August 18, 2020, 10:13:24 am »

Oh I realize now. I was refering simply graphics. Currently the ramps and stairs are represented by a single title each, so in graphic packages you have to decide if up stairs and down stairs go to the left or the rigth. The ramps currently are represented in the vertical direcction.

Its only a cosmetic and useless issue.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2020, 10:16:23 am by LordBaal »
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I'm curious as to how a tank would evolve. Would it climb out of the primordial ooze wiggling it's track-nubs, feeding on smaller jeeps before crawling onto the shore having evolved proper treds?
My ship exploded midflight, but all the shrapnel totally landed on Alpha Centauri before anyone else did.  Bow before me world leaders!

PlumpHelmetMan

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3430 on: August 19, 2020, 04:37:01 pm »

The stuff you were talking about in the second-to-last DF talk about imaginary magic systems in mundane worlds got me thinking: will humans in such settings sometimes still believe that the vanilla DF fantasy races like dwarves, elves, goblins, and the like exist in their particular world? It's not like various human cultures haven't believed in these creatures in the past, so it would make sense.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2020, 04:51:19 pm by PlumpHelmetMan »
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Eric Blank

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3431 on: August 19, 2020, 04:49:19 pm »

Yeah he did say they could show up as mythical, presumed real creatures in the past. It may be that not all civs end up believing in any or all of them, though.

I bet all the other stuff like megabeasts and Sasquatches and blizzard men end up disappearing at the lowest settings too.

Maybe things will receive a raw tag with min/max values they show up in, like [FANTASY_SCALE:25:75], on a worldgen scale from 0 to 100, where 50 is default and like DF is now. That would let us control where our modded additions show up too.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2020, 04:56:02 pm by Eric Blank »
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I make Spellcrafts!
I have no idea where anything is. I have no idea what anything does. This is not merely a madhouse designed by a madman, but a madhouse designed by many madmen, each with an intense hatred for the previous madman's unique flavour of madness.

Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3432 on: August 19, 2020, 05:03:52 pm »

The stuff you were talking about in the second-to-last DF talk about imaginary magic systems in mundane worlds got me thinking: will humans in such settings sometimes still believe that the vanilla DF fantasy races like dwarves, elves, goblins, and the like exist in their particular world? It's not like various human cultures haven't believed in these creatures in the past, so it would make sense.
Would be the same as the way dwarves believe in griffons, centaurs and chimeras now
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Yakefa

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3433 on: August 20, 2020, 06:32:12 pm »

Quite a significant number of the boolean flags for this and that end up being mapped out and twiddled with via the DFhack github project and this is the foundational basis for a lot of DFhack scripts and community bit-patches that have emerged over the years, its really as close as anybody would get to anything that is not the RAWS without being either of the Adams brothers themselves.

Are you saying that almost anything could be modded through DFHack?
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3434 on: August 20, 2020, 08:00:30 pm »

Quite a significant number of the boolean flags for this and that end up being mapped out and twiddled with via the DFhack github project and this is the foundational basis for a lot of DFhack scripts and community bit-patches that have emerged over the years, its really as close as anybody would get to anything that is not the RAWS without being either of the Adams brothers themselves.

Are you saying that almost anything could be modded through DFHack?

With a bit of help from rumrusher going over renewing some old scripts to make them worthy to use in 47.04, i do have a little bit of mounted rider functionality when i can corral dwarves and animals in the right places that im still fine tuning how best to approach with the janky method of rider being glued onto mount in fortress mode. I've yet to make a settled fortress on it, so in basic yeah, so long as there's enough code structures left over to properly manipulate you can puppeteer virtually anything you want.
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