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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 1665508 times)

Bumber

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3555 on: October 05, 2020, 03:45:51 am »

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Toady has done the unusual thing to say that he aims for that to happen before the end of the year.

Wait, did he really say this? I was mentally preparing for next year's summer...

You have to convert that from Bay12 time, so I'm sure you're not far off.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3556 on: October 05, 2020, 03:46:37 am »

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Toady has done the unusual thing to say that he aims for that to happen before the end of the year.

Wait, did he really say this? I was mentally preparing for next year's summer...
What Steam? No. He said "there's a deadline to finish the work, and it's not this year". So it's next year, or later. And then he said how important it is to keep to deadlines. Followed by Tanya at Kitfox making hasty statements during Pax, that she's not pressuring Tarn at all and they can be flexible. So...a while yet. Hopefully see a stress tweak before the end of the year though.

Toady (Sep 1st Fotf):
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...there is a deadline (it isn't this year, and I don't want to get into it specifically since it's not the same as a release date.  We do not have a release date.)
« Last Edit: October 05, 2020, 03:49:00 am by Shonai_Dweller »
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ror6ax

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3557 on: October 05, 2020, 04:00:14 am »

Yeah that is what I remember, hence my surprise at aiming to do *anything* before *any date*.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3558 on: October 05, 2020, 04:20:40 am »

Yeah that is what I remember, hence my surprise at aiming to do *anything* before *any date*.
Funnily enough, that was a reply to PatrikLundell's own question as I recall...
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clinodev

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3559 on: October 05, 2020, 06:48:24 am »

At the risk of appearing to pile on, (you were right about deadlines when I and others were wrong, going off of official statements, after all, so maybe you have better sources):

A #2 wouldn't be a major release, so it wouldn't contradict Tanya's statement.

I took her statement as a reply to my comment: "There was a hint early in the year they might do another Standard release before Premium is released, but who knows." which is quoted in the reply she directly answers. Definitely a matter of interpretation.

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The reason for the posting about stress has died down could also be caused both by people having said what they have to say and gotten tired of repeating the same thing over and over, as well as Threetoe's thread being a very clear indication that they intend to address the issue before the Premium release.

That's a perfectly reasonable supposition from the point of view of the Bay 12 Forums, where people who are waiting for stress fixes are likely to peek in occasionally at the most recent Dev Log, see there's been no release, and and go about their lives for another month. Redditors, however, use reddit for other things, and because we post all the official news, are likely to see something come across their feed while looking at cat pics or whatever. "I've played for years but can't handle stress, so I'm waiting for Premium," is a comment I see about as often as "I want to learn, but I'm waiting for the Steam release," which is to say, both unfortunately very frequently.
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Manveru Taurënér

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3560 on: October 05, 2020, 07:37:41 am »

"I've played for years but can't handle stress, so I'm waiting for Premium," is a comment I see about as often as "I want to learn, but I'm waiting for the Steam release," which is to say, both unfortunately very frequently.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but why would there be anything wrong with those comments?
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3561 on: October 05, 2020, 07:55:09 am »

I don't have better sources than anyone else, but just the thought of a US commercial contract without deadlines, fine clauses, termination clauses, etc. does seem like someone is either dreaming or thinking of military time & materials contracts.

I'm not sure where I saw/heard Toady saying he definitely wanted DF Premium out this year, but it was probably one of the interviews (and I only know about ones linked from this forum, either linked by Toady or someone else).

I'm hoping for #2, but I definitely consider it the least likely alternative, in particular as it's something that can be cut without an immediate visible impact ("just" worse balance at release).

"I've played for years but can't handle stress, so I'm waiting for Premium," is a comment I see about as often as "I want to learn, but I'm waiting for the Steam release," which is to say, both unfortunately very frequently.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but why would there be anything wrong with those comments?
There's nothing wrong in those comments, as they're valid sentiments from players. The thing that's wrong/bad is that there's a very valid cause for them: The stress (in)balance is an issue, and it won't go away by itself, but has to be addressed, either sooner or too late (if the Premium release doesn't address it it's going to hurt DF badly. There's only one chance for a first impression, and patch releases can do provide some limited damage control). The comment was made to counter a comment by someone that the number of complaints about the balance has (or may seem to have) diminished over time.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3562 on: October 05, 2020, 04:22:58 pm »

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I'm not sure where I saw/heard Toady saying he definitely wanted DF Premium out this year, but it was probably one of the interviews (and I only know about ones linked from this forum, either linked by Toady or someone else).
Toady gave a very clear answer (as far as he was able) when we brought it up in Future of the Fortress last month. Which he then confirmed again at Pax. Steam is not due out this year.
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Su

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3563 on: October 06, 2020, 06:54:43 am »

in every demonstration i've seen of the new guis, all the interactions have been made with the mouse. currently, i play with the mouse completely disabled via the init files - will the new graphical interfaces [which are looking very very pretty, by the way!] be usable with just my keyboard?

apologies if this has already been answered elsewhere.
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DG

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3564 on: October 06, 2020, 07:19:23 am »

in every demonstration i've seen of the new guis, all the interactions have been made with the mouse. currently, i play with the mouse completely disabled via the init files - will the new graphical interfaces [which are looking very very pretty, by the way!] be usable with just my keyboard?

apologies if this has already been answered elsewhere.

Yeah, I had the same concerns and asked about it not too far back.

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Quote from: Shonai_Dweller
Are the icons sliders and other graphical parts of the interface that you're adding locked to the official tileset? I'm just wondering how the new interface will work for anyone who doesn't buy the Steam version. Or indeed in Steam's curses tileset, is that Curses plus graphical icons? Different icons to match the ASCII style? Presumably all the new rectangle drawing tools and such will be fully functional?
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Are all new UI elements and any changes to current ones supporting keyboard only input?

They are locked, insofar as everything else is - it's set up currently as the creature graphics have been, where you link up images with text files and so forth, and the fancy image sets aren't going to be in DF Classic (which is likely what the Steam curses version will be, same as the free one.)  That does leave us the question of what DF Classic is, when we've been aiming for "no graphics but as many of the interface improvements as possible."  We'll very soon reach a point where the changes will require some sort of substitute.  Whether those are literal text buttons (with line outlines and ASCII symbols inside), or something else, is yet to be seen.  The way the interface currently works where it still respects the old grid somewhat (rather than the new graphical layer, which doesn't respect the old grid, other than being a grid at all) makes it much easier to handle ASCII parallel work on an ongoing basis.

Yeah, the continuing plan, which seems feasible thus far, is to maintain keyboard alternatives everywhere.  There are some questions here and there about how some nested widget might work, if various little tick boxes end up being convenient, and so forth, but having quick key/sequence methods is important.
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Lemming Dwarf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3565 on: October 10, 2020, 06:58:19 am »

Sorry in advance if this question has already been asked.

Since the UI is getting a touch up (and by extension the menu) are you planning on moving settings currently found in init.txt and d_init.txt into a "settings" menu so they can be tweaked in-game(if changes to the settings in-game is even possible)?

Next up I have a suggestion (apologies as it is not really an educated one and more just me spitballing after reading the recent post)

have you considered re-scaling and repositioning clothing (and whatever other overlays) based on the animals persons size?

Thanks for your time!
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3566 on: October 10, 2020, 07:15:10 am »

Sorry in advance if this question has already been asked.

Since the UI is getting a touch up (and by extension the menu) are you planning on moving settings currently found in init.txt and d_init.txt into a "settings" menu so they can be tweaked in-game(if changes to the settings in-game is even possible)?

Next up I have a suggestion (apologies as it is not really an educated one and more just me spitballing after reading the recent post)

have you considered re-scaling and repositioning clothing (and whatever other overlays) based on the animals persons size?

Thanks for your time!
Toady mentioned needing to do a settings menu in DFTalk yesterday. Take a listen!
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf//index.php?topic=177366.0
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Schmaven

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3567 on: October 13, 2020, 06:38:18 pm »

Will the Itch.io/Steam version of Dwarf Fortress include a way for players to see individual dwarves' stress levels?  The happiness counter that is a part of DFHack is incredibly useful to see fortress wide how the stress situation is.  So I am very happy to see that in the Autumn Dev Update video :)  I find it also very helpful to be able to see not just how many dwarves are unhappy, but which ones are at what level of unhappiness so I can spoil them with extra furniture made from their favorite stone, arrange a stockpile in their room of their favorite food and drink, misting them with waterfalls, etc., and cheer them up back from the precipice of insanity. 
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3568 on: October 13, 2020, 06:56:51 pm »

Will the Itch.io/Steam version of Dwarf Fortress include a way for players to see individual dwarves' stress levels?  The happiness counter that is a part of DFHack is incredibly useful to see fortress wide how the stress situation is.  So I am very happy to see that in the Autumn Dev Update video :)  I find it also very helpful to be able to see not just how many dwarves are unhappy, but which ones are at what level of unhappiness so I can spoil them with extra furniture made from their favorite stone, arrange a stockpile in their room of their favorite food and drink, misting them with waterfalls, etc., and cheer them up back from the precipice of insanity.
Probably better as a suggestion. But, I guess most things are when asking about the UI as we don't know much about it.

Would hate this personally unless it were solely part of some debug mode. I can see why some people might want it as the current stress system requires very early action so every digit counts, but would much rather see the stress system fixed instead. To have to monitor numbers like some spacecraft simulator just kills the atmosphere for me.
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Schmaven

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3569 on: October 14, 2020, 02:49:53 am »

Not numbers, just the same 7 smiley / frowny face types from the UI but for each dwarf.  That would be my suggestion, but I'm more curious as to if the individual stress condition of the dwarves is accounted for.  I suppose it does border on suggestion territory.
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