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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 1210091 times)

PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3810 on: January 30, 2021, 08:08:08 am »

I've found, through a string of failures, that leaving posts unposted until after sleeping reduces the foot in mouth ratio (assuming, of course, the brain is booted up again before the posting)...


A couple of questions regarding the latest release:
- The release note said meal value affects meal satisfaction. Does meal quality factor in beyond its value enhancement factor?
- Does the new meal satisfaction logic affect meal selection so dorfs now first look for favored ingredients and then value, or does the previous logic remain, i.e. favored ingredients and then closest (with satisfaction due to value being down to luck/stockpile design)?
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ZM5

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3811 on: February 01, 2021, 01:17:14 pm »

With the second pass of the villains update, will we see NPCs like bandit leaders or notable mercs/wanderers also utilize mounts and pets? It feels kinda strange that only the player really uses either in adventure mode right now.

Toady One

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3812 on: February 01, 2021, 06:34:40 pm »

Quote from: Harsteen
Will recipes be procedural generated to produce recognisable dishes with interesting ingrediences (outside "normal " dishes like "roasted xxx")?

Will unprepared food get bad after some time in stock?

Procedural recipes were the plan back when we first added taverns.  That and the procedural games for people to play.  But we didn't get there at the time, so now it's back in the general list of things to be done.

Food preservation is also one of those general list things.  So, no idea when we'll get to that sort of thing.  But it would be neat if the various processes were there to be done.

Quote from: Silverwing235
There appear to be some issues with dice effects (and the bane for overuse) that I, at least, can't quite make out? Such as:
Quote
Grants the user a week of good luck/bad luck (unknown effect, assumed to be similar-but-opposite to the mummy's curse, or temporary in the case of bad luck)".... Using the same dice under the same deity's blessing more than twice in an uncertain period of time, known to be between 24 hours - 1 week...


Edit: Nearly forgot. Is 'time before time' references in legends any sort of placeholder for mythgen connections coming in, or do my eyes deceive me?

Here in particular, I speak for those who are also drawing a blank on whatever a 'fixed world' might be, some kind of post-worldgen thing?

Quote from: devlog
Editors for fixed worlds

Bumber: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8233069#msg8233069
LilyInTheWater: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8234044#msg8234044

The luck thing is like the mummy curse, yeah.  And the multiple rolls one should be self-explanatory if you do it multiple times within a week, unless that's not working.

There aren't any negative years in any meaningful way - the ones you see from ages are just generated, and the others come from a simple 'prehistory' routine that generates the demons and so forth, and any event that happens there gets "time before" time treatment.

Quote from: LilyInTheWater
Does the "myth" part of the magic and myths update only include creation myths, or will there be other tales involving the gods as well in the initial worldgen process? Things like that one myth where Amaterasu hid a cave after Susanoo threw a flayed horse at her so the gods had to convene to try to get her out of the cave, for example.

also

Will there be a way to easily understand how a world's magic system works upon worldgen? Obviously there's room for discovery in gameplay, but it wouldn't hurt if there was at least a rough summary of how each world's magic system is set up on worldgen, unless the creation myth is supposed to explain the magic system as well.

We haven't gotten into that so far, but yeah, we have some notes along those lines, though it's mostly still to determine some property of the world or another.  But as you get closer to the recorded history portion, and the gods are still around, then the actions won't need to have those world-altering effects so much.  It's all part of that messy line between the old-style world gen and this new earlier-than-history portion, and hopefully it'll feel like various of the real-world myths floating around sometimes.

The myths are supposed to create and thereby explain what's going on, but it might be vague or unclear.  But we're not sure at this point how exposition will work.  If there's magical research and discovery, this implies that there are things you don't know in advance, but broadly speaking we want to introduce people to the world that has been made to allow them to have a settlement or roleplay in it without feeling like they are completely outside of it at first.  Part of that can happen in world gen, when it shows the myths (or a myth) and gives some background, part of it can happen when choosing a game start, and so on.

Quote from: Dr Disposable
I was wondering about dragon generation, would dragons be different world to world which I presume is the case, or would there be several dragon types like how there are cave dragons and regular dragons.
And what are going to happen to cave dragons?

It isn't entirely clear how this'll play out, but since this'll come in at the earliest with all the myth world specifiers, it'd just fit in right there, as an ability to use a text file 'dragon category' to generate some types, or the ability to use premade creatures, or mods of either kind.  I'm not sure if either of the vanilla creatures will make it - they are pretty underspecified and uninteresting, so using a creator of classes of dragon to make both species and unique creatures (as we do with demons in a hard-coded fashion) will be better.  It's quite possible though that any given world might just have one 'dragon' made in this way.

Quote from: ror6ax
Has generative/adaptive music in DF been suggested before?

DG: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8234132#msg8234132
FantasticDorf: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8234191#msg8234191

Assuming you mean actually making the music in some listenable format rather than the current musical form generator, then, yeah, it has been suggested, and it's also a whole field that I'm not quite qualified to enter, which is why I did things the way I did.  I have enough of a musical background that it'd be fun to mess around with, but I don't think any result I could produce would justify the time.

Quote from: Aid
Hello Tarn how are Zack and his health?Have you changed the myth generator in any way from the moment you introduced it to GDC?

Urlance Woolsbane: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8234140#msg8234140

He's doing well!  Yeah, as Urlance says, I haven't anything done meaningful with it.  It's at the point where it would be better to work it into the main game than develop it in parallel.

Quote from: Murr2
Will we have a multicore version for the steam release?

voliol: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8240303#msg8240303
Urlance Woolsbane: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8240469#msg8240469

It's not going to be any more multithreaded than it is now, with the graphics on a separate thread.

Quote from: Urist McSadist
In my years of playing the game I've never seen a successful kobold thief. Are there any plans to buff ambushers before the big wait?

PatrikLundell: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8240691#msg8240691
Putnam: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8241535#msg8241535
Shonai_Dweller: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8241561#msg8241561

I'm not sure if anything will change with them with the army stuff.  It's not going to be the focus, but there could be some changes to ambushes along with the siege changes.

Quote from: Prismatic
1) What exactly does the [IS_SECRET:MUNDANE_RESEARCH_POSSIBLE] interaction token do? The wiki simply states that "the secret can be researched by mundane means", which isn't particularly enlightening.

2) What is the cut-off at which a gait is considered to be fast with regard to the [IE_HAVE_FAST_EFFORTLESS_GAIT_SPEED] and [IE_ALL_SLOW_EFFORTLESS_GAIT_SPEED] tokens?

Knight Otu: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8241393#msg8241393

1) It doesn't do anything.  If I recollect, it predates all the talk about big waits and myth/magic stuff, and we were going to do something more simple with it.  Now it may just end up being replaced by whatever comes next there.

2) Both of these take a number - so like [IE_HAVE_FAST_EFFORTLESS_GAIT_SPEED:1000].  Then it would check if you have one in that range (speed less than or equal to 1000, since lower is faster.)  And for ALL_SLOW, it checks if all of the gaits are a greater or equal number than the one you give it.  In the shrine curse, it uses the first one to make sure it doesn't pick an animal that is too slow to play.

Quote from: Beag
Will there be an updated look screen for when our adventurers look at a creature in the steam release similar to what was shown to be upcoming for fortress mode?

It's going to be updated in some way!  It might not use the same style sheet just because things like thoughts and other information displayed there aren't normally available in adv mode.

Quote from: PatrikLundell
- The release note said meal value affects meal satisfaction. Does meal quality factor in beyond its value enhancement factor?
- Does the new meal satisfaction logic affect meal selection so dorfs now first look for favored ingredients and then value, or does the previous logic remain, i.e. favored ingredients and then closest (with satisfaction due to value being down to luck/stockpile design)?

The emotion type and strength of the emotion is affected by the value which is affected by the quality.  I'm not sure what else the quality would do dirshouldectly in this context - if we did make some change that impacted the emotion directly from quality, it should probably also just increase value.  Not that we've done a great job with that concept overall.

I updated the meal selection logic to account for the new system - value is included in the process.  That is certainly one of those things I might've overlooked, but this time I remembered, ha ha.

Quote from: ZM5
With the second pass of the villains update, will we see NPCs like bandit leaders or notable mercs/wanderers also utilize mounts and pets? It feels kinda strange that only the player really uses either in adventure mode right now.

More than the villains part, the concurrent army update might see things along those lines.  Certainly far more people should be riding horses and critters when available than we're seeing now.
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clinodev

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3813 on: February 02, 2021, 02:41:00 am »

Thanks as always for the replies!

Traffic is already noticeably up on the subreddit with 47.05! It's so nice to see people getting excited about playing again!
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Alu

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3814 on: February 02, 2021, 03:01:32 am »

Playing this game for more than a decade now, there is one thing that still happens to me almost always- I need to constantly replenish seeds through trading, even after forbidding certain food types.

Is there a plan for the interface to provide some sort of farm management overview to see or control individual seed reserves and material flow into produce which does or does not drop seeds?
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Dankrou

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3815 on: February 02, 2021, 06:23:03 am »

Hello! I apologize in advance if I did not formulate my question well in English.
Will the "police" system be reviewed?
The situation: the guard notices a thief who steals an artifact does not prevent the crime but runs past the criminal because he needs to first report this to the sheriff.
Will it be possible to add to the guards the ability to prevent a crime based on the situation, and then only report it to the sheriff?
« Last Edit: February 02, 2021, 06:24:38 am by Dankrou »
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3816 on: February 02, 2021, 08:13:33 am »

Hello! I apologize in advance if I did not formulate my question well in English.
Will the "police" system be reviewed?
The situation: the guard notices a thief who steals an artifact does not prevent the crime but runs past the criminal because he needs to first report this to the sheriff.
Will it be possible to add to the guards the ability to prevent a crime based on the situation, and then only report it to the sheriff?
Villains update (which is all of that) was paused before most of it was complete to work on Steam. Work resumes after Steam release is fairly stable.
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Dankrou

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3817 on: February 02, 2021, 08:38:56 am »

Villains update (which is all of that) was paused before most of it was complete to work on Steam. Work resumes after Steam release is fairly stable.
Got it, thanks for the answer.
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recon1o6

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3818 on: February 03, 2021, 09:02:10 am »

With the UI updates, are there any plans to have skills consolidated eg metalsmith and metal crafter, fish cleaner/dissector

Are there any plans for an in game glossary or recipe tree? Eg Iron is made of 3 different ores: hematite, lignite and magnetite. Combine with flux stone to make pig iron
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3819 on: February 03, 2021, 11:36:19 am »

With the UI updates, are there any plans to have skills consolidated eg metalsmith and metal crafter, fish cleaner/dissector

Are there any plans for an in game glossary or recipe tree? Eg Iron is made of 3 different ores: hematite, lignite and magnetite. Combine with flux stone to make pig iron
These are really suggestions thinly disguised as questions.

1. Hasn't come up as any of the larger stumbling blocks for players, so bigger fish will probably be tackled in the game play improvements made in conjunction with/after the UI overhaul.
2. These aren't static, but built up from raw definitions, so any in-game description will have to derive its contents from the raw contents. That's not particularly hard, though.
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chinesecosmo

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3820 on: February 03, 2021, 06:10:39 pm »

Have any discussions been had about future Steam releases/add-ons/DLC? Things like new music or art packs. Presumably you wouldn’t want to lock any gameplay behind another paywall, but do you envision the $20 Steam version as being the only DF-thing someone would be able to buy?
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3821 on: February 03, 2021, 07:24:36 pm »

Have any discussions been had about future Steam releases/add-ons/DLC? Things like new music or art packs. Presumably you wouldn’t want to lock any gameplay behind another paywall, but do you envision the $20 Steam version as being the only DF-thing someone would be able to buy?
Good question. Much as we all hate DLC, if the new music is popular, I could see official music packs being added. Someone's gotta pay the musicians presumably.

Now, if someone really clever came up with a program that would replicate the procedural music being played in the tavern in realtime I'd pay for that.
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chinesecosmo

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3822 on: February 03, 2021, 09:25:39 pm »


Good question. Much as we all hate DLC, if the new music is popular, I could see official music packs being added. Someone's gotta pay the musicians presumably.

Now, if someone really clever came up with a program that would replicate the procedural music being played in the tavern in realtime I'd pay for that.

I saw that Tarn mentioned on Feb 01 that he can't justify the time it would take but surely after he makes his first $10 million he can pay someone else to take the time for him.  :P

It would be rad

But yeah, I mean even things like regional variants of armors & things.  Or 100s of new statues to better depict the subject matter as described by the flavor text. It's hard to reconcile my distaste for the Paradox model of DLC and my wish to support development until the game hits 1.0, but I'm curious if any discussion re: long-term monetization has been had.

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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3823 on: February 03, 2021, 11:41:05 pm »


Good question. Much as we all hate DLC, if the new music is popular, I could see official music packs being added. Someone's gotta pay the musicians presumably.

Now, if someone really clever came up with a program that would replicate the procedural music being played in the tavern in realtime I'd pay for that.

I saw that Tarn mentioned on Feb 01 that he can't justify the time it would take but surely after he makes his first $10 million he can pay someone else to take the time for him.  :P

It would be rad
Probably more something Kitfox might consider investing in if DF turns out to be a good source of income for them.

Although, the long-term result might be people only making and maintaining our favourite utils if they're getting paid, so perhaps we don't want to go there.
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squamous

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3824 on: February 04, 2021, 07:31:49 am »

1. Regarding the previously mentioned upcoming army update, will there be anything like joining another party rather than leading one yourself? It's a bit difficult to describe, but like, you could say enlist with an army for a time in adventure mode and your character will be dragged along the overlord in whatever direction the army goes, participating in battles and sieges and all that.
2. Also regarding the army update, will it be possible to see stuff like cities being overrun by soldier and stumbling into battles?
3. A lot of demon stuff seems to be tied to the existence of procedurally generated demons (ie custom demons won't spawn unless they're enabled etc). Are there any tags or adv worldgen edits I could make to negate this?
4. Will future releases let us create custom modded night creature experiments?

« Last Edit: February 14, 2021, 02:25:18 pm by squamous »
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