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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 1603131 times)

clinodev

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4035 on: June 03, 2021, 05:47:32 am »

Thanks Toady !

A question for next month !
Do you feel concerned/worried by the collapse in forum's activity ? (activity divided by 3 - 6 in 7 years depending on what you are looking at)

At the same time donations have never been this high but I wonder if this means that Dwarf fortress isn't a game everybody loves but nobody plays anymore. Or is it because forum aren't used anymore replaced by - for instance- Reddit ?

It's probably not as bad as you think. I do regularly encourage people on other community platforms to make B12Forum accounts, simply because there's much here not found elsewhere, FotF and Toady One principally. It's worth noting this is a recurrent question that Toady's sort of shrugged at in the past.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7924238#msg7924238
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7924274#msg7924274

I don't have any Bay 12 Forum numbers you don't, but I do have some info for some other forums.

The subreddit is currently sitting at ~116k subscribers, and gaining ~50 a day. Subscribers are people who have made accounts and actively chose to add /r/dwarffortress to their list of monitored subreddits, and most reddit users never make accounts. We're seeing ~6k unique viewers per day, viewing ~25k pages. Since I can share it, here's the raw data: https://imgur.com/a/n5k3Boo

A little over 51k people have viewed the Steam Community Update from 2 weeks ago, and the one from today is doing well. Engagement numbers on Steam, ignoring the announcement period, have generally trended up. (Thanks to Kitfox Tanya and Alexandra for permission to share for that info!)

I suspect just as the last time, we discover DF is more popular than ever, more people are in the wider community, and for a decade people have been coming into the community through where they find it, this forum, reddit, Discord, or what have you. There are even some pretty active Facebook groups!

As for people playing, I have the distinct impression more people are actively playing 47.05 than any release since 2018. Stress was really rough for a lot of people, especially more casual and newer ones. Whether it's perfect now I can't say, but it errs towards being a playable game for more people if it does. On the subreddit and the Kitfox Discord, we're seeing a lot of new players in the last months.

[Updated with Steam info.]
« Last Edit: June 03, 2021, 05:34:42 pm by clinodev »
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Afghani84

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4036 on: June 03, 2021, 06:36:22 pm »

Are there any plans regarding simple terraforming, i.e. filling up single tiles with dirt or being able to rebuild ramps? If so, do you have an idea where it fits in the timeline?
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4037 on: June 04, 2021, 02:42:06 am »

Are there any plans regarding simple terraforming, i.e. filling up single tiles with dirt or being able to rebuild ramps? If so, do you have an idea where it fits in the timeline?
There are plans to make sand and clay deposits run out, and thoughts about moving soil for agriculture. Landscaping would be a fairly natural extension of that (basically, each tile would probably consist of X/Y of a substance, so you could remove it over time, and and that logic ought to allow for removal to be replaced by refilling [with the added complication that would result from mixed substances, possibly a new substance in the form of "mixed soil, or something]).
Since this would require data structure support on the tile level, the groundwork ought to be laid in the map rewrite part of the first Myth & Magic release (which doesn't necessarily mean usage of those new data structures would be in at that time).
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Inarius

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4038 on: June 04, 2021, 02:46:01 am »

@clinodev thanks for your answer !
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GumNut

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4039 on: June 04, 2021, 07:40:34 am »

Are the changes for steam release fully compatible with macros? Are there any future plans for the macro feature or is it considered finished?
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leastannoyingman

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4040 on: June 04, 2021, 10:42:34 am »

Quote from: leastannoyingman
With the myth/magic update, is there anything planned regarding evolution or corruption of different races and species (sentient and non-sentient)? This could include either initial mythical origins, "natural" evolution and mutations, hybrid species, or unnatural/magical forces and experiments.

voliol: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8278301#msg8278301

Just a note on your later custom groupings post ( http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8278407#msg8278407 ) - since this already happens with deities (when they cover more than one sphere), I imagine this'll all come for free from the editor/param side.

Bless you, Toadius Unus.

By "this'll all come for free" I'm assuming you mean that different overlapping forces on spheres would work, since deities can already overlap on spheres. I assume the other parts of the post (regarding how forces, deities, followers of opposing spheres would actually clash with each other) might not be exactly planned out yet, so I'll be waiting to see until the Myth & Magic update takes shape.

Another insane proposition would be if the system is built to allow linking magical forces to various unusual things, even if it's hacky and clumsy to activate - like editing raw files to connect magics to certain physical attributes, etc.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2021, 10:44:07 am by leastannoyingman »
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4041 on: June 04, 2021, 11:41:45 am »

I don't see the tying of magic to properties as being insane, at least not reasonably static ones. Bloodline have been mentioned, date of birth hasn't but would be another possibility. Attributes are messy in that they can change over the character's lifetime (if you've got magic that only works if the strength is low, you may want to consider going for a pen pusher job rather than a mining one...[I curse thee with the spell of average strength! Rather interesting way of defeating an opponent...]), but anything that can be statically applied to character according to apparent logic or even hidden logic (such as those born on even minutes or hours get magic, which I'd expect would seem random unless it's been studied very carefully, and using accurate clocks which might not even exist), or even "truly" random can work. Ties are intended to be exported to the myth editor, so when fully fleshed out, any logic the myth generator can use ought to be exposed to the editor (and it's not impossible there are some variants the myth generator is blocked from using because the results are too chaotic or unbalanced, but are logically possible in the systems themselves).
Thus, what's available to specify with the fully developed myth editor ought to be what the systems used by the myth generator supports, which depends on what Toady and ThreeToe have both thought out and implemented ("thought out" doesn't necessarily mean they're original thoughts, but even if well used tropes are used, they still have to be turned into a logic system for the game).
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leastannoyingman

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4042 on: June 04, 2021, 01:01:53 pm »

I don't see the tying of magic to properties as being insane, at least not reasonably static ones.

Oh, all the game's features are insane to me anyway.

The stuff about the myth generator and myth editor makes sense, thanks. Let's hope it'll have solid footing that could let you get really weird with it - like making magic powers depend on beard length, or something.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4043 on: June 05, 2021, 04:37:22 am »

I don't see the tying of magic to properties as being insane, at least not reasonably static ones.

Oh, all the game's features are insane to me anyway.

The stuff about the myth generator and myth editor makes sense, thanks. Let's hope it'll have solid footing that could let you get really weird with it - like making magic powers depend on beard length, or something.
I doubt highly variable aspects would be included, but regardless, I'd be wary of suggesting that particular version unless you fancy being the target of a witch hunt organized by the political correctness mafia (whose ability to detect any trace of incorrect discrimination is honed to perfection).
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ror6ax

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4044 on: June 07, 2021, 05:22:45 am »

Aside from being technically ambitious task, have you considered what gameplay purpose will Myth and Magic serve? As a player, would it make a considerable difference for me to play a procgen race with procgen magic system as opposed to playing the hardcoded one?
« Last Edit: June 09, 2021, 04:15:17 am by ror6ax »
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4045 on: June 07, 2021, 07:36:23 am »

Aside from being technically ambitious task, have you considered what gameplay purpose will Myth and Magic serve? As a player, would it make a considerable difference for me to play a procgen race with procgen magic system as opposed to playing the hardcoded one?
If that's a question to Toady you should mark it in lime green so he finds it when going through the questions at the beginning of the next month (separating questions from chaff like this post).

If it's a question to the forum at large, my answer is that it will serve the same kind of purpose as we currently have with regards to embarking in different biomes, with different geo biomes, and different neighbors, i.e. things that vary and you need to adapt to, keeping the experience fresh longer. That could have been achieved without any actual myth generation process, i.e. just mix things with a similar logic, but that won't generate any interesting backdrop (for player), nor does it seem to be particularly interesting to Toady. Also note that deities (and other creatures more powerful than the races) provide an additional layer, where one world may just be a battleground for deities with sapients as disposable pawn, while others may have different kinds of interactions (cooperative, "stealth" conflict, etc.). Again, it provides for additional challenges to overcome.
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voliol

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4046 on: June 07, 2021, 01:43:16 pm »

It will also (like most other proc features) add to the ”usher in the presence of a unique scenario” factor, though I suppose that might not be strictly a gameplay thing.

squamous

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4047 on: June 07, 2021, 03:40:01 pm »


1. Even if multistory siege weapons are off the table, what sort of siege machines might be available, and how moddable will that whole system be? Will it be possible to create entirely custom siege weapons/ammunition for example? Would that extend to wagons?
2. Will the steam version of the game have an option to play the game in ascii, or will it be required to use the graphics pack?
3. Some mods come with the actual game's .exe for ease of installation, effectively functioning as an "independent" game you can install like the default one, how would mods like that function on the steam workshop if at all?
4. Will container items like backpacks and quivers become moddable before or after the Big Wait?
5. Will stuff like armor and weapons eventually become as granular as instruments? Maybe not in the near future, but at some point?
6. I believe it was discussed before that "normal" DF wouldn't feature technology past a certain level, but what sort of anachronisms do you think might be added as potential tools for NPCs to discover/develop?
7. What traits influence the odds of an NPC becoming an "adventurer" ie warrior/mercenary/monster slayer in worldgen? Violence and excitement-seeking maybe, but is there anything else?
« Last Edit: June 26, 2021, 12:57:31 am by squamous »
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Bumber

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4048 on: June 07, 2021, 04:42:10 pm »

2. Will the steam version of the game have an option to play the game in ascii, or will it be required to use the graphics pack?

IIRC, it's been said that the Steam version will come with an ASCII option.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #4049 on: June 07, 2021, 04:58:31 pm »


1. Even if multistory siege weapons are off the table, what sort of siege machines might be available, and how moddable will that whole system be? Will it be possible to create entirely custom siege weapons/ammunition for example? Would that extend to wagons?
2. Will the steam version of the game have an option to play the game in ascii, or will it be required to use the graphics pack?
3. Some mods come with the actual game's .exe for ease of installation, effectively functioning as an "independent" game you can install like the normal one, how would mods like that function on the steam workshop if at all?
4. Will container items like backpacks and quivers become moddable before or after the Big Wait?

1. Multi tile vehicles are off the table. Wagons are, technically, weird "animals" in the game, and that's something Toady want to get rid of.
2. As Bumber said, the character tile set will be provided with both the Premium and Classic version, although I believe the Premium version will default to the MephDay set, so the player would have to switch the set if the character one is preferred.
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