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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 3023504 times)

eerr

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5445 on: June 06, 2023, 05:22:47 pm »

If gorlaks have the [GOOD] tag and are supposed to be peaceful, sociable creatures, why are gorlaks that come from the caverns technically marked as hostile?
The good tag just means they hang out in good biomes.

Good biomes being the opposition to evil biomes.
Notably, the biome on the surface extends to the biome in the caverns, though I can't think of anything that shares both surface and underground biomes except dwarves.
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A_Curious_Cat

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5446 on: June 06, 2023, 07:05:45 pm »

If gorlaks have the [GOOD] tag and are supposed to be peaceful, sociable creatures, why are gorlaks that come from the caverns technically marked as hostile?

Unicorns have a [GOOD] tag, and I would not describe them as particularly friendly.  What you're likely more concerned about is their [BENIGN] tag, and why they're still listed as hostile.  I would hazard a guess that this has something to do with ensuring that they set off traps, when they step on them.  As opposed to say, normal visitors.

Edit: Trimmed the amount of text.

Yeah.  I guess you’re right about the tags.  I still don’t understand why they don’t act like normal visitors, though.  They are sapient, after all…
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Putnam

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5447 on: June 06, 2023, 07:20:43 pm »

Do you have any plans for the underworld pre-magic, after which it will (presumably) be overhauled and left completely up to world generation?  For example, adding something valuable there to make it worth venturing into?  Or maybe creating underworld structures like fortresses/pits with cages and other evil contraptions of hellish depravityTM?

No longer in the game, but there used to be stuff in the older editions.
As of 47.05: https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Demonic_fortress
In 0.34: https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/v0.34:Demonic_fortress

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What is the EQUIPMENT creature flag used for?
I tested a summon unit interaction for creatures with the EQUIPMENT flag, and it ended up summoning a wagon.  This is the same as summon interactions which only summon creatures with the EQUIPMENT_WAGON flag.  I don't think these flags are redundant though.

edit: added question

The EQUIPMENT flag does most of the stuff involving making the creature unselectable as a pet, wild animal etc. required for wagons, except actually making it available as a wagon.

eerr

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5448 on: June 06, 2023, 07:58:25 pm »

If gorlaks have the [GOOD] tag and are supposed to be peaceful, sociable creatures, why are gorlaks that come from the caverns technically marked as hostile?

Unicorns have a [GOOD] tag, and I would not describe them as particularly friendly.  What you're likely more concerned about is their [BENIGN] tag, and why they're still listed as hostile.  I would hazard a guess that this has something to do with ensuring that they set off traps, when they step on them.  As opposed to say, normal visitors.

Edit: Trimmed the amount of text.

Yeah.  I guess you’re right about the tags.  I still don’t understand why they don’t act like normal visitors, though.  They are sapient, after all…
Going a little bit further, if I remember correctly, the tag is defunct for the purpose of what biome the creature 'should' reside in.
Instead, it just indicates the association for other purposes. Like art pictures or preferences.

Stuff used to be sorted into normal evil and good biomes, it's a legacy tag from that era that does something else.
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A_Curious_Cat

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5449 on: June 06, 2023, 09:38:53 pm »

If gorlaks have the [GOOD] tag and are supposed to be peaceful, sociable creatures, why are gorlaks that come from the caverns technically marked as hostile?

Unicorns have a [GOOD] tag, and I would not describe them as particularly friendly.  What you're likely more concerned about is their [BENIGN] tag, and why they're still listed as hostile.  I would hazard a guess that this has something to do with ensuring that they set off traps, when they step on them.  As opposed to say, normal visitors.

Edit: Trimmed the amount of text.

Yeah.  I guess you’re right about the tags.  I still don’t understand why they don’t act like normal visitors, though.  They are sapient, after all…
Going a little bit further, if I remember correctly, the tag is defunct for the purpose of what biome the creature 'should' reside in.
Instead, it just indicates the association for other purposes. Like art pictures or preferences.

Stuff used to be sorted into normal evil and good biomes, it's a legacy tag from that era that does something else.

I thought it still was.  I thought that wasn’t going to going to change until the map rewrite…
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dikbutdagrate

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5450 on: June 07, 2023, 04:20:55 pm »

Going a little bit further, if I remember correctly, the tag is defunct for the purpose of what biome the creature 'should' reside in.
Instead, it just indicates the association for other purposes. Like art pictures or preferences.

Stuff used to be sorted into normal evil and good biomes, it's a legacy tag from that era that does something else.

Thats not accurate.  Feel free to review the wiki.
https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Surroundings
Or actually, just embark in an evil biome. That should catch you up to speed.

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The EQUIPMENT flag does most of the stuff involving making the creature unselectable as a pet, wild animal etc. required for wagons, except actually making it available as a wagon.
Thank you for the response Putnam. I was wondering what was happening there.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2023, 05:48:59 pm by dikbutdagrate »
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Toady One

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5451 on: June 08, 2023, 01:06:46 am »

Quote
Quote from: KristoffPL
Is there any chance at all that backing up/syncing saves in the Steam Cloud service will be implemented in the future? I have two PCs I play the game on and it would be handy to have my saved games be synced between them (in addition to having a backup in case something goes from with the hard drive)
Quote from: sbritorodr
Is there any plans to add steam cloud saves? This would be a really QoL update for me

Saves can be very large so I don't think it can be a default option given how long it would take to sync saves.  It might be possible to make it optional but the fast way of setting up a sync folder doesn't seem to do that.  We're open to doing it but it might require a small workshop-like push to get it to function.

Quote from: Pillbo
> 50.08 notes: Allowed most water-based jobs that use buckets to use partially-filled water buckets in addition to empty buckets.

Which jobs can't use partially filled buckets?

Putnam: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8473643#msg8473643
PatrikLundell: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8473696#msg8473696

Quote
Quote from: Shonai_Dweller
Are there plans to add the remaining export functions to Legends Mode? The pops and history files are probably the most important bit. At least to me as a modder anyway.
Quote from: Listyg
Thank you for reimplementing legends export. However, in the classic version alongside legends xml export there were some other options allowing to export for example, historical figures or terrain information. I heard that terrain data export would be difficult to reimplement for the time being because it's tied to adventurer mode in some way, but are there any plans to reimplement those other remaining export options that were there in the classic, in the Steam version in the meantime? Like the option to export historical figures etc. I apologize if I come off as overly persistent with asking about those exports but there seem to be quite a few of people who are looking forward to seeing them back in the Steam version of the game.

Yeah, we'd like to get everything back.  Anything that requires a full menu rather than a simple button is just slightly lower priority (so xml came first.)

Quote from: Urist McSadist
1.Can we expect some adventure mode ai improvements after the update is out?
2.After the magic update, will there be the possibility of some people having powers based on their values and personalities?
3.Will we ever have procedural government systems?

PatrikLundell: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8473913#msg8473913
DPh Kraken: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8474291#msg8474291

1. The adventure mode update?  I think it'll come with those on the first pass, like fort mode did.
2. Yeah, this seems quite possible, and fits with tropes etc. as PatrikLundell mentioned.  The whole thing is kind of like "add an internal API/debugger" so it's unclear what will make the first/second/etc. passes, since it won't be everything and we might run into unexpected snags referencing certain systems (though syndromes/poison already affects emotions etc.)
3. DPh Kraken covered everything here I think.

Quote from: Vanzetti
Are there plans to further expand the personality model, to have dwarfs interact more with the community in which they live? For example, to enable scenarios such as:

- A dwarf reacting with jealousy to a spouse having an affair.
- A dwarf trying to mend relationship between two friends who had a fight.
- A dwarf experiencing peer pressure to do something they don't really want to (e.g. joining the military, because all their acquaintances did).

These things are all reasonable of course.  They don't fit explicitly in the existing near-term plans, which are shaped around villains, armies, magic etc., but little things like this occasionally get added because we're in the neighborhood, especially with the villain plots/relationships and certain magic effects.  The (sorta) recent divorces came from the first half of villains as I recollect, and jealous lovers would fit right in etc.

Quote from: Gremie
Is it possible for one dwarf to affect the mood of another?
(do you have any future plans for how dwarfs affect one another, action-reaction scenarios)

1) for example, perhaps a general who gets excited while in combat can cause others to become excited and spur them forward, while the same would be true if they are terrified and cause others to flea with them.

2) have you considered adding a counselling room?
(Or some other method of helping dwarves regain control of their mood? magic enchantments???)

where dwarfs who are upset will seek out help?
with the beauty of the room and skill of the counsellor causing a level of mood buff?

The mayor and priests already work as a counselling room, I think, insofar as that kind of thing is going in.  Infectious emotions aren't really in the game as far as I remember, and the situation is more or less as with the previous question by Vanzetti.

Quote from: Vattic
(list of entity position tokens for graphics) Are we likely to get these back?

Putnam: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8474277#msg8474277

Yeah, if those entity position ones aren't working, it's something odd and bug-shaped, since the code is more or less the same with the ones that do work.

Quote from: dikbutdagrate
Whats going on under the hood exactly, when a fell mood dwarf grabs an intelligent HFS creature? Why does it look like probabilities are weighted differently depending on the reagent material used during a fell mood?  From a lot of testing, it appears that in fell mood instances involving an intelligent HFS gemstone person being "used" as its reagent, specifically, the resulting artifact will be either a left or a right gauntlet 50% of the time, which is odd.

For corpses, it mainly seems to care about leather vs. bone vs. other.  For the other category (where gemstones would be), it adds "SCALED" clothing of all sorts, but also lots of different craft type items, so I'm not sure why gauntlets should be so frequent.  Helm, mask, and leggings should also show up, as well as the crafts.  But this is ancient stuff, so anything could be going on/wrong.

Quote from: Pillbo
Are the black/shadowy sprites for procedurally generated creatures considered final art or stand-ins for the time being?

The feeling at the time was that they were probably a stepping stone to a more colorful system, and that still seems right, but that they are good for a while.  When we're looking more closely at e.g. night trolls and bogeymen etc. as we do adventure mode graphics, we'll see where it all goes.

Quote from: ryno
Early footage of premium featured more graphicalized tree stumps that did not make it into release; my theory is that by extending beyond it's own tilespace it created clipping issues when trees were directly adjacent other objects. They looked quite epic however! Might we seem them return, and what other kinds of fun graphics ended up on the cutting room floor due to time constraints? I enjoyed watching the evolution of many assets as the game neared release- and I'm also curious if the artists created referenced 3D models for the later iterations of wagons, siege engines, or windmills. They look "modeled", and they're some of the finest assets in the game now.

Eric Blank: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8479459#msg8479459

Yeah, there was some issue with shadows and also the issue with having multiple trees surrounding a tile and having their roots all print in it from different directions, which, with tree species, really compounds the data that needs to be sent in to render the tile.  I'm not sure about the windmill etc...  I have a vague vague memory that the windmill might have started with a 3D reference, but I don't recall anything for the rest, and I might be wrong about the windmill.

Quote from: Immortal-D
What news of reinstating keyboard controls? (I'm really struggling with the inefficiency of the mouse for large designations, plus the loss of macros)

Macros are in there in some form, though maybe they don't play nice with the designation cursor - I thought I tested that part.  In any case, there isn't specific news, but Putnam has been revamping interface stuff, including standardize some list widgets and such that should really help when we get there.

Quote from: TheGoomba98
Why can't I find the filter options for assigning units to zones (such as showing only grazing animals for pastures)?

A_Curious_Cat: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8479866#msg8479866

Quote from: Beag
1. What's left on the to do list before work porting adventure mode over to the steam version can begin? Adventure mode was always my favorite mode.
2. Over the updates between now and the myth and magic update will any other minor magical activities/effects be added similar to the divination dice that were added a while back?

dikbutdagrate: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8480479#msg8480479

1. I have a little adventurer running around rendering again.  We're just going to have to do everything simultaneously now, so what's on the list doesn't really enter into it.

2. Anybody's guess!  The underground rewrite of the endgameish stuff for the Steam release was something like that.

Quote from: Vanzetti
Are you satisfied with the way magma currently behaves? Were you ever interested in making it more realistic? For example, people can not sink into real magma, as it is roughly two to three times more dense than living tissue.

Bumber: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8481152#msg8481152

It's a mixed bag!  Real magma would also cool off, which is a tougher question for fantasy magma I think.  People burning to death on top of magma would be fine with me though.

Quote from: A_Curious_Cat
If gorlaks have the [GOOD] tag and are supposed to be peaceful, sociable creatures, why are gorlaks that come from the caverns technically marked as hostile?

dikbutdagrate: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8481159#msg8481159
eerr: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8481599#msg8481599
A_Curious_Cat: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8481610#msg8481610

Yeah, the gorlak was never really done any justice, since underground societies are all terribly underspecified right now, and gorlaks even more than the underground animal people.  The game just isn't set up for them currently.

Quote from: sofanthiel
Currently, the underworld is a giant cave with demons and eerie glowing pits that sometimes connects to the upperworld through towers in dark fortresses.  It's rather bland compared to other parts of the game.

Do you have any plans for the underworld pre-magic, after which it will (presumably) be overhauled and left completely up to world generation?  For example, adding something valuable there to make it worth venturing into?  Or maybe creating underworld structures like fortresses/pits with cages and other evil contraptions of hellish depravity?

Doorkeeper: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8481246#msg8481246
dikbutdagrate: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8481284#msg8481284

The adamantine is the valuable thing, as Doorkeeper replied, and the demon invasion is the punishment.  It's a simple thing, and after the latest changes, I'm not sure we're going to fiddle with it more before we get to the actual rewrite.

Quote from: dikbutdagrate
What is the EQUIPMENT creature flag used for?
I tested a summon unit interaction for creatures with the EQUIPMENT flag, and it ended up summoning a wagon.  This is the same as summon interactions which only summon creatures with the EQUIPMENT_WAGON flag.  I don't think these flags are redundant though.

Eric Blank: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8481574#msg8481574
Putnam: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8481613#msg8481613
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dikbutdagrate

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5452 on: June 08, 2023, 01:15:21 am »

Thank you for your time and answers Mr. Toad.
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brewer bob

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5453 on: June 08, 2023, 02:00:00 am »

Thanks for the answers!

A_Curious_Cat

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5454 on: June 08, 2023, 02:07:30 am »

Thanks for the replies!
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Silverwing235

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5456 on: June 09, 2023, 05:04:49 am »

Thank you for your time and answers Mr. Toad.

Nice shout-out, there. (Any 'Mr.Toad' reference being assumed to be to The Wind in The Willows, that is.)
« Last Edit: June 09, 2023, 05:44:25 am by Silverwing235 »
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Zeimai

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5457 on: June 11, 2023, 02:51:42 pm »

Hey, I made this account basically just to ask two things, sorry if they've already been brought up!

I have premium, but I still switch back to classic graphics sometimes, and a few questions related to graphics on that:

Are there any plans to put something in the highlighted box when you're selecting things for trade in classic graphics? A colored 'x' or something -- as far as I can see it just kind of highlights itself a slightly lighter gray which can be a bit tricky to see at a glance

Are there plans to re-implement an option for varied tiles in classic graphics? When I played before I would always immediately turned varied tiles off for easier readability
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SeeSchloss

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5458 on: June 12, 2023, 05:47:22 am »

Are there any plans to put something in the highlighted box when you're selecting things for trade in classic graphics? A colored 'x' or something -- as far as I can see it just kind of highlights itself a slightly lighter gray which can be a bit tricky to see at a glance

I agree with it, I don't know how much of a priority the classic graphics are nowadays, but I think this is one of the most annoying (annoying is too strong a word, but it is somewhat inconvenient) oversights.

The other one I can think of is the pump direction dialogue, where you have to choose the direction of the pumping and are presented with four arrows, but the arrows show the position of the source relative to the pump. So, the reverse of the pumping direction. If you want to pump from east to west, you must choose the "->>" arrow which is very non-obvious, especially with no indication of this through a tooltip or something like that. You only see it once the pump is constructed.
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Nautilus

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #5459 on: June 13, 2023, 02:21:29 pm »

What is the timeline for fixing the [CONDITION_NOT_DYED] and [CONDITION_DYED:COLOR] tags?
I really want to make a mod which adds new dyes and accurately displays clothing colors instead of having profession colors. It would be cool if there was tags to detect if a body part is missing, or if a weapon is in multigrasp, or if a particular item is hauled instead of only a tag for number of items hauled. Currently I think artifact weapons and armor don't display on your dwarves in vanilla. I fixed this in my mod by removing the the [CONDITION_CRAFTED_ARTIFACT] tag and layer grouping some stuff. Unfortunately the game doesn't properly detect the material of a crafted artifact so it can only display a generic artifact instead of a specific one of a particular material. Last I checked the creatures_graphics layered file also looks for black bronze equipment instead of bismuth bronze. That would be an easy graphics fix since it only requires the replace command.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2023, 07:41:41 am by Nautilus »
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