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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 3182781 times)

Inarius

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #6135 on: January 01, 2025, 04:58:12 pm »


Hi and happy new year !
I remember quite a long time ago you spoke (or wrote ?) about something like a procedural "tech progress" tree, which would involve researching pondering about things that would make real progress, on the one hand, and on the other hand knowledge travelling from places to places, with travelers, and thinkers; leaving isolated places backward, etc...
And I remember, too, you speaking/writing about "false" progress leading to nothing, false philosophy, heresy, spreading the same way

Am I inventing, or badly remembering, or is this still something on the table ?
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #6136 on: January 02, 2025, 05:38:24 am »


Hi and happy new year !
I remember quite a long time ago you spoke (or wrote ?) about something like a procedural "tech progress" tree, which would involve researching pondering about things that would make real progress, on the one hand, and on the other hand knowledge travelling from places to places, with travelers, and thinkers; leaving isolated places backward, etc...
And I remember, too, you speaking/writing about "false" progress leading to nothing, false philosophy, heresy, spreading the same way

Am I inventing, or badly remembering, or is this still something on the table ?


You're not misremembering, as much as slightly-fuddling up the context to the ver.44+ updates. Its actually in the game, but at present has no actual purpose other than to provide a scope of emergent book topics through the 'discoveries' system attached to the work of scholars assigned to debate and write it down. There's a set number of persistent discoveries that can be made by a civ in a particular world based on how many bookwriters and philosophers they generate attached to their values and often centuries of practice.

Here's to hoping this might wrap back around to what Toady was talking about in the latest reply, with reference material being aware that they are living in a magical universe, alongside with material that comprehends they are also living in a logical universe, and to give the library the same kind of overhaul that the hospital received, because the activities are very deterministic of where you place your furniture (scribes don't need tables, but readers do, meaning you have two areas stretched over the same zone).
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argo

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #6137 on: January 04, 2025, 10:34:31 am »

Any news on macOS support? I’d love to try the new version.
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Ziusudra

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #6138 on: January 04, 2025, 08:16:54 pm »

Any news on macOS support? I’d love to try the new version.
What about the Mac build?

After investigating the programming requirements, we have decided it’s best to cancel the Mac build for the time being. Porting the game over to Mac would take significant time and resources away from improvements to Fortress and Adventure Mode that simply don’t make sense for us to dedicate right now, given the low number of Mac-only users. There is a significant amount of work that would be required for maintaining a Mac build that would delay all patches in the future, and as we know, you all want patches faster. We aren’t saying it will -never- happen but do not count on it any time soon. We are very sorry to all the Mac users who have been waiting patiently for an update on this.
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argo

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #6139 on: January 05, 2025, 11:27:19 am »

Any news on macOS support? I’d love to try the new version.
What about the Mac build?

After investigating the programming requirements, we have decided it’s best to cancel the Mac build for the time being. Porting the game over to Mac would take significant time and resources away from improvements to Fortress and Adventure Mode that simply don’t make sense for us to dedicate right now, given the low number of Mac-only users. There is a significant amount of work that would be required for maintaining a Mac build that would delay all patches in the future, and as we know, you all want patches faster. We aren’t saying it will -never- happen but do not count on it any time soon. We are very sorry to all the Mac users who have been waiting patiently for an update on this.

Oh damn. Any idea what the status of emulating the windows/linux version on macOS?
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DPh Kraken

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #6140 on: January 05, 2025, 02:03:31 pm »

Oh damn. Any idea what the status of emulating the windows/linux version on macOS?

I played the first 51.01 beta release on a MacBook through Wineskin. Fortress was stable, adventure was even more crash-laden than its reputation, and it couldn't hook up to Steam so I couldn't publish on the workshop. If you know how to get the files packed up in the right emulation environment, then it's pretty decently functional. I even developed a mod on Mac, it's a bit tricky with the virtual files but I got it working in-game.
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jecowa

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #6141 on: January 09, 2025, 12:29:39 am »

If you're on an Apple Silicon Mac, I'd recommend Whisky over Wineskin to run the Windows builds of Dwarf Fortress. There's installation instructions on the Dfwiki.

The Windows builds of Dwarf Fortress will probably provide a better experience than the Linux builds, especially if you're on an Apple Silicon computer.

I played the first 51.01 beta release on a MacBook through Wineskin. Fortress was stable, adventure was even more crash-laden than its reputation, and it couldn't hook up to Steam so I couldn't publish on the workshop.

Were you running the Windows build of Steam within the same Wine bottle? Was this on an Intel Mac or an Apple Silicon Mac?
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astix

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #6142 on: January 09, 2025, 12:52:32 am »

Mostly it just has to do with being able to learn the game and getting through the first chosen quest, since we're expecting some new people.  After the release we can start worrying about the big picture again.

On the topic of the adventure mode beta being close to release, and expected new player influx..

Q1: When the adventure beta is integrated into the main branch, would it be helpful to describe adventure mode inside the game as still a work in progress, similar to the Steam blog posts introducing the mode, with regards to:

a) Incoming delayed features like cabin building, layout of NPC fortresses not being like player fortresses yet, legends mode integration? etc.

b) Adventure mode not being as fleshed out and rounded out as fortress mode although some areas like combat are extremely in depth, and including issues mentioned in the Steam posts:
https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/975370/view/3973931474165976101
https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/975370/view/3753244942577557600

c) Possibly describe what adventure mode is to prevent people thinking adventure mode is another version of a game or game-type they're familiar with? They may get confused. They may get frustrated when they look for features that aren't there instead of focusing on unique things the mode has that the other game types don't, or not focusing on gameplay that complements fortress and legends by switching between modes.

For example the start menu choices could show adventure mode is WiP e.g. "Adventure mode - WiP(?)". Clicking on the "?" could give a text description showing what's upcoming.

The Start menu could have an entry called "About" that shows a text description of the project, it's goals, and modes - as well as details on each mode including adventure mode and it's current state. Trying to sum up Dwarf Fortress is likely non-trivial on a project this big, but it could be iterated on later, perhaps by asking community to contribute to a wiki page. This might alleviate the misconceptions and frustrations Steam players have had.

For example, a 1 sentence description of modes might be.. interacting with the simulation via:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Descriptions inside the game would reach a far larger audience than blog posts on Steam, which receive only a few thousand votes compared to ~1 million players, and probably really don't get read by players who aren't active at the time.

If Kitfox are planning to do a marketing push around adventure mode, they could perhaps wait until all the features are in. Even if they don't, labeling Adventure as WiP inside the game and describing where it fits in the project will inform media and future reviewers.

Q2: Is it possible to allow players to quickly transition to adventure mode and back during fortress mode with no delay?

Switching might need to be restricted to prevent players using it as a crutch to avoid learning fortress management, and do difficult things in manual mode ... maybe have an option that defaults to restricting switching. But I can see people would like being able to go in person and talk to interesting characters, or go for a quick journey outside the fort to investigate something like where the Kobolds are coming from, or visit the nearest settlement to have a chat with the ruler... maybe do a trade/supply run to a nearby settlement or to a retired fort the player switches back and forth with.

Players could keep one or two adventurers in a fort and switch to adventure mode when needed, or maybe create a new adventurer at their fort. Forts might need a temporary retire option with a tickbox-list of things the AI is allowed to do, and revert to full AI control if the player declines to take back control in time.

If Kitfox are doing a big marketing push around adventure mode later on, a rapid switching feature can be used to show how adventure mode fits in to the wider framework. It can also help/encourage fortress mode players to get their feet wet in adventure mode.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2025, 01:06:37 am by astix »
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Lawaern

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #6143 on: January 09, 2025, 09:02:13 am »

Q1 Given that there is so much fun waiting deep below the earth, are there any tools or features planned to make navigating it more accessible, in Adventure Mode?

Things like portable lights, scratching marks into walls as breadcrumbs, for you to follow back... Or for something to follow you?

The adventurers you meet in Fortress Mode tend to use your Taverns much like the Yawning Portal; a last stop before certain doom wealth and glory, which feels like it's encouraging the player to follow suit in Adventure Mode, but there isn't much support for doing so.

Q2 As the myths development hits it stride will there be some predictability in the magicalness of the remnants?
For example, a handful of shared effects like:

All Primordial Sunstone glows and is warm to the touch.

All Elemental Cloudstuff has a chance of producing mist when swung or thrown

All Primordial Salt has a chance of making those struck by it Enraged.

Given it's place in the lore and history of each world, I feel like it ought to be obvious that it's special, especially once more magic is added.

Q3 On that note, will there be more magical artifacts beyond remnants and those that are dwarf made?

An obvious example would be the hand of a death god's High Priest granting a make zombie reaction. Or perhaps just raising nearby corpses on it's own, for fun?

Would heroic objects absorb something from the deed that triggered them? For instance a helmet worn by Urist Dragonreviled, when he killed a dragon, gaining a power associated with wealth or fire? Like it's wearer gains fire breath, or for more fun, whoever wears it slowly turns to a gold statue?

Would original copies of a book containing magical secrets have magical properties itself? Like let's a say a theoretical Druid grimoire can cause nearby wild animals to become the reader's pets. Or, since I've established a pattern, turning nearby predators giant?
« Last Edit: January 09, 2025, 09:08:25 am by Lawaern »
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DPh Kraken

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #6144 on: January 09, 2025, 12:37:23 pm »

Q1: When the adventure beta is integrated into the main branch, would it be helpful to describe adventure mode inside the game as still a work in progress, similar to the Steam blog posts introducing the mode...

When creating a new world, currently there's a popup describing the general fortress goals. There's precedent to describe the mode in a bit more detail the first time you open it. I will note that before v50, the popup before creating a world said that the whole game was in alpha.

Q3 On that note, will there be more magical artifacts beyond remnants and those that are dwarf made?

Tarn has made several statements to that effect, throughout this thread, interviews such as DF Talk, or the dev pages. I recall Tarn being excited about the possibility for magical hero artifacts, because they start being historical with important event: slaying a monster.
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Flying Teasets

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #6145 on: January 09, 2025, 11:28:09 pm »

[second thought]
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Eric Blank

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #6146 on: January 10, 2025, 08:36:07 pm »

[second thought]

Aren't you supposed to be dead???
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Enemjay

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #6147 on: January 11, 2025, 04:12:31 pm »

Many supernatural creatures are created in interesting ways within the game. E.g., vampires and were-creatures result from deity curses. Do you think you might expand on mummies? Imagine allowing the player to create adventure mode mummies by introducing an embalming feature to tombs in fortress mode (complete with canopic organ jars). Your mummy might even awaken during fortress mode if the tomb you've prepared for them is disturbed by thieves sent by villains.
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