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Author Topic: Wait, are you seriously telling me.....  (Read 6182 times)

ZM5

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Re: Wait, are you seriously telling me.....
« Reply #60 on: March 20, 2018, 03:05:44 pm »

What I find odd is that elves being cannibals came from a community game, then toady added it into the game because of community popularization of the idea. I don't even think of them as being cannibals even though I know its in the game, and they were never really designed to be like that until some level of community lens or filter was put onto the game. 
I actually like it since it makes them a tad more unique than just generic Tolkienesque elves - they come across more as the classical fairytale fair folk. Makes me wonder what exactly they'll get once the magic update rolls out. Perhaps they could create giant thorny vines to block off areas and which spawn hostile plant life until removed, or maybe they could take a line from the Primals from WoD and turn dwarves into half-plant shamblers. Would make them a rather fearsome threat.

Wasn't aware of that origin though, do you remember what the story was called?

Xyon

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Re: Wait, are you seriously telling me.....
« Reply #61 on: March 20, 2018, 03:38:29 pm »

What I find odd is that elves being cannibals came from a community game, then toady added it into the game because of community popularization of the idea. I don't even think of them as being cannibals even though I know its in the game, and they were never really designed to be like that until some level of community lens or filter was put onto the game. 
I actually like it since it makes them a tad more unique than just generic Tolkienesque elves - they come across more as the classical fairytale fair folk. Makes me wonder what exactly they'll get once the magic update rolls out. Perhaps they could create giant thorny vines to block off areas and which spawn hostile plant life until removed, or maybe they could take a line from the Primals from WoD and turn dwarves into half-plant shamblers. Would make them a rather fearsome threat.

Wasn't aware of that origin though, do you remember what the story was called?

Might have been boatmurdered, or some other big community game from that era.    I think its cool that community input was put into the game, and yeah the DF elves are more unique compared to other elves because of it.  But its also kinda funny.   The community made the elves cannibals,  and the community uses the cannibalism of elves as a reason to hate them. SO really the community chooses to have elves for something that they caused the elves to be.  This is why I find it kinda.. odd.
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Dunamisdeos

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Re: Wait, are you seriously telling me.....
« Reply #62 on: March 20, 2018, 03:44:22 pm »

I mean, I'm going to be honest and say that I wholeheartedly enjoy the whole wild-elves thing that DF does with elves. It makes it feel unique, and the only reason I gleefully squish them is because they won't leave me in peace about my woodcutting.

They remind me of Warhammer fantasy-setting wood elves.
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corrosivechains

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Re: Wait, are you seriously telling me.....
« Reply #63 on: March 20, 2018, 10:33:19 pm »

The only reason some people defend elves is because they're elves.  It isn't the altruistic, "genocide is wrong" argument they always take.  That's not what they have a problem with.  What they have a problem with is it happening to elves.

Proof?  How often do you see this subject come up about genociding goblins?  You don't because it's a given.  No one SJW's people talking about harvesting goblinite for steel production, yet talking about it in the terms of "goblinite" has even worse implications.
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Haggoroth

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Re: Wait, are you seriously telling me.....
« Reply #64 on: March 20, 2018, 11:22:50 pm »

Are we seriously going to let some SJW trolls bait us into defending our hatred for elves?  Elves have zero redeeming qualities and every bone in my Dwarven body knows they all need to die.
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George_Chickens

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Re: Wait, are you seriously telling me.....
« Reply #65 on: March 21, 2018, 03:35:02 am »

Actually, this makes me wonder. Has anyone ever made forts specifically designed for !!SCIENTIFIC TESTING!!? If not, I think we should certainly make a start. To have forts designed for specific testing purposes would make the wiki editor's lives so much easier, as anyone could just jump in and test things out without having to wait for a mature, 100 dwarf fort.

The thought came to my head when I realized I really wanted to test out raiding and provide results, but didn't want to have to carefully micromanage my fort up to being large enough to stage consistent attacks. I have no problem with just using DFhack to cheat my way up the ladder for testing, but how many players who would like to test things out and provide useful information would prefer a ready set up fort for experiments?
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Xyon

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Re: Wait, are you seriously telling me.....
« Reply #66 on: March 21, 2018, 05:31:14 am »

Are we seriously going to let some SJW trolls bait us into defending our hatred for elves?  Elves have zero redeeming qualities and every bone in my Dwarven body knows they all need to die.

Surely you would not think that I am a SJW? Having myself been a member of this forum since 2009, and you only having registered for this forum earlier this month in 2018.

Perhaps you just need to adjust to the community here, I really don't think there's any SJW 'threat' or 'menace' or whatever that wants to get people to play any particular way.

People just enjoy DF in different ways, thats always how its been.
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George_Chickens

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Re: Wait, are you seriously telling me.....
« Reply #67 on: March 21, 2018, 06:02:55 am »

The argument is dead. Please stop trying to revive it so we can get back to practicing !!SCIENCE!! via raids. We all know what happens to unwanted necromancers.
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ZM5

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Re: Wait, are you seriously telling me.....
« Reply #68 on: March 21, 2018, 06:04:35 am »

Are we seriously going to let some SJW trolls bait us into defending our hatred for elves?  Elves have zero redeeming qualities and every bone in my Dwarven body knows they all need to die.

Surely you would not think that I am a SJW? Having myself been a member of this forum since 2009, and you only having registered for this forum earlier this month in 2018.

Perhaps you just need to adjust to the community here, I really don't think there's any SJW 'threat' or 'menace' or whatever that wants to get people to play any particular way.

People just enjoy DF in different ways, thats always how its been.
I think he was referring to Egan's posts.

n_ll

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Re: Wait, are you seriously telling me.....
« Reply #69 on: March 21, 2018, 09:07:33 am »

Actually, this makes me wonder. Has anyone ever made forts specifically designed for !!SCIENTIFIC TESTING!!? If not, I think we should certainly make a start. To have forts designed for specific testing purposes would make the wiki editor's lives so much easier, as anyone could just jump in and test things out without having to wait for a mature, 100 dwarf fort.

The thought came to my head when I realized I really wanted to test out raiding and provide results, but didn't want to have to carefully micromanage my fort up to being large enough to stage consistent attacks. I have no problem with just using DFhack to cheat my way up the ladder for testing, but how many players who would like to test things out and provide useful information would prefer a ready set up fort for experiments?

this is a great idea!
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George_Chickens

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Re: Wait, are you seriously telling me.....
« Reply #70 on: March 21, 2018, 09:38:35 am »

What would you guys define as the criteria for a scientific fort? What level of efficiency for testing should we go for? What testing chambers / setups should there be, and how should they be designed? I am a pretty bad fort designer, so I'll need some guidance to do this, if nobody else steps up to the plate.
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you sir, deserve a medal. this is the dawn of a new age of child trauma.

Haggoroth

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Re: Wait, are you seriously telling me.....
« Reply #71 on: March 21, 2018, 10:26:29 am »

All of my forts are built for scientific testing:

Hypothesis:  I will kill all dwarves in a horrible fashion

Current fort:
 1x Ripped apart by were-lizard
 1x Died of thirst
 1x Dwarf built a floor connected only to a floor grate, fell on another Dwarf and killed him
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Sanctume

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Re: Wait, are you seriously telling me.....
« Reply #72 on: March 21, 2018, 10:27:07 am »

Actually, this makes me wonder. Has anyone ever made forts specifically designed for !!SCIENTIFIC TESTING!!? If not, I think we should certainly make a start. To have forts designed for specific testing purposes would make the wiki editor's lives so much easier, as anyone could just jump in and test things out without having to wait for a mature, 100 dwarf fort.

The thought came to my head when I realized I really wanted to test out raiding and provide results, but didn't want to have to carefully micromanage my fort up to being large enough to stage consistent attacks. I have no problem with just using DFhack to cheat my way up the ladder for testing, but how many players who would like to test things out and provide useful information would prefer a ready set up fort for experiments?

this is a great idea!

Depends on what the goal of the testing. 
With the use of dfhack, a fort can be created with some initial micro management. 

Embark points at 9,999, initial picks, axes, food, booze, and hospital supplies. 
Dwarf start at 120 or some form of spawn unit.   
create items: beds, barrels, buckets, armorstands, weapons and armor. 
reveal all
fast dwarf 1 1
dig rooms
build shop
trigger cavern / magma sea 
liquids to put magma furnace and forges for moods.
train everyone weapon or armor smithing to level 1 or 2.
teleport interesting subjects to controlled rooms. 
send raids. 

Missing are dfhack scripts to keep track / dump reports on skill / stat changes per dwarf.

DoktaYut

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Re: Wait, are you seriously telling me.....
« Reply #73 on: March 21, 2018, 12:39:37 pm »

!!Science!! is a little too big for just one fort, so really you'd need to design around specific things you want to test, be it one experiment or one phenomenon.

Since this is raiding that's being tested out, however, what you'll need is a fortress that'll be able to support a large enough military for multiple ops at once, and be able to survive the ensuing sieges that'll surely provoke. So, probably most of your migrants being conscripted immediately and a very solid metalworking industry somewhere that has iron and flux, as well as a very, very defensible position, probably with a lot of traps because kobold sieges aren't a thing and by the time you're getting anything like a forgotten beast or titan you'll probably have a designated raiding team that's good enough to handle it; from my own experiments, pillaging is quite the training regime.
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bloop_bleep

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Re: Wait, are you seriously telling me.....
« Reply #74 on: March 21, 2018, 02:24:31 pm »

For a pretty long time I've been wanting to start a community fort centered around !!SCIENCE!! and engineering. I've already found an optimal embark position (next to all the civs as well a tower), with a river, a volcano, sand, and some other features I'm probably forgetting.

I just have to find it again, because as usual, I have forgotten to note down which world it's in.  :P I'll link to it here when I finally start it.
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