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Author Topic: Infiltration - ancient evil god game simulator  (Read 12992 times)

Cruxador

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Re: Infiltration mechanics
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2018, 09:25:25 am »

For 5.1 I think it's okay in theory but rather than just focus, it should be possible to gradually increase the main level of knowledge (that is, reveal additional info for all pops without needing to focus) so it doesn't eventually become tedious.
5.2 sounds fun as long as it's balanced so that the things you do usually achieve something you want, in normal cases. If you have stats to determine failure rates, it should be fine.
5.3 sounds good to me too.
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Gornova

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Re: Infiltration mechanics
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2018, 03:03:59 pm »

thanks Cruxador for feedback really appreciated, I will think about it :D
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Gornova

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Re: Infiltration mechanics
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2018, 04:40:54 pm »

TLTR: released version 0.0.1, so please take a look on my blog

In this release I've done more or less what I wanted to do and in particular:

- win condition: when you unlock all 5 forgotten knowledge
- lose condition: when world awareness is 5
- focus / calling / manipulate actions
- clues mechanics

I will write more tomorrow, I promise!
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Cruxador

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Re: Infiltration mechanics
« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2018, 06:49:49 pm »

Looks good, I'll check it out when I get a chance. Do you want feedback on English / proofreading or just gameplay?
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Gornova

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Re: Infiltration mechanics
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2018, 06:28:42 am »

Looks good, I'll check it out when I get a chance. Do you want feedback on English / proofreading or just gameplay?

TLTR: both of them.

More in detail..

I'm not a native english speaker, so any feedback is appreciated.

This release 0.0.1 of this prototype is really a work in progress, with bare-bone mechanics and base systems.
In fact yesterday I was a little bit hesitant.. release or not ? I decided to go with release mainly because I want to demostrate, first on myself, that I can release something working (I've made some games before, but you know, another guarantee is better!).
I spend also some time on UI on fixing small details (there are for sure bugs I was not able to see, I know! Please report them :P) and I find it at least "usable" for a prototype: with two/three clicks player is able to do everything and this is nice. I wondered also if right panel go to left with more detail is correct, or is simply better start from left and go to right, you know we write from left to right (at least with english!), I appreciated any feedback also on that.

So let's talk about the 0.0.1 version in detail!

Some points I'd like to get feedback:

1) not on graphics, but on icons! I think that map outline, colors, city color, etc.. are not important for now, but icons understanding is crucial. I mean, not food (a green apple!) but for factions (a gear for warrior guild? a dagger for assassin guild?), action icons (focus, calling). It's an area where I really want to improve, so even without fancy graphics at least game is understandable on the basics

2) events explanations. There are just few events and all of them are "passive", game just inform you about something that is happening, for example a character completes a calling quest and uncover forgotten knowledge. What do you think about these events? Do you expect more explanations? In description and also underlying mechanics (+2 rebellion? Is enough ?)
I need this kind of feedback before move to more interactive events (that will be in the game for sure!)

3) base actions. This is crucial point of the game, like I've written before, the main loop is focus/calling actions and cover/stop character using clues with manipulation action (Is clear to click on relation to start manipulation?). A weak point right now is manipulation, because like Cruxador highlight on previous discussion, outcome for manipulation is not clear. Something will happen for sure, but what? I'm but puzzled by the current implementation, because I'm biased: I know every kind of possible manipulation, so I know what will happen.

4) randomocity. Map is fixed: city positions, city names are not random, but instead some randomness is inside character names/roles and placement in cities. I want to explore more on this side (for example on relationships with more than one character, different types, etc.. ) but I don't believe that a full random approach is the right choice for now. First, because I don't have so much time, so test again and again everything is really time consuming (idea: I can write some kind of automated testing, but I need to think how to build them too), second because this is only a prototype, not a full game. I need feedback also on that side, do you want more or less randomness ? What do you prefer? Hey, we are in DF home, so I think we are all biased too :P

5) rebellion mechanics. Revolt against government is something I think should find a space in this kind of game. Like I've said in my first post, this game is not about direct control, but on indirect outcome for player action and context situation. You try to stop a character, using another one with a lot of madness. After some play, you know that a mad assassin could add +2 rebellion value. But what then? In some of my run, no rebellions was triggered, so a player could miss this mechanics. On the other side, do I need to put on center of the stage this "side mechanics" ? As you can image my vision on that is not clear, but I like feedback on this side.
For rebellion for example, an enhancement could be add some randomness during city creation on rebellion value. So for example a city could trigger a revolt most of the time, for example Xalin, that starts with less food and trigger most of the time a revolt.
For now rebellion outcome is just a battle between rebels and lealist forces! I'd like to add more modifiers as outcome. For example: scenario now is about a kingdom, so what if a city is taken by rebels? King should send his army to that city and this "troop movements" will give to player a bonus in this chaos, right ?

6) city isolation. For now cities are "island", by choice. In the future I want to make them more interdipendent, but make "island" is useful for debug. An example on one idea I had was: when a mad mage summon a ghast to kill another character, that ghast could be killed, but could also survive. What if this monster can go to another poi and trigger a quest for characters?


Thanks for any feedback, with basic pieces in place, I now fun to change values/balance the game!
I want to read also some "run history" from you, to understand if you found the "game experience" interesting.

p.s: for any feedback, be brutal, I'm an adult and I can handle it
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Gornova

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Re: Infiltration mechanics
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2018, 06:38:52 am »

I'm back with some thoughts on this prototype, this time to consider boundaries: when to stop?

This kind of simulation could go to smallest details (but not included for now!), so is really easy to find an interesting direction, follow it for some time (btw, this is an hobby project) and after that.. is not what I really want. So I think that look back to my vision is essential:

"a turn based single player asymmetric game where player take control of an agent and manipulate actors and organizations to obtain victory"

What about this statement and version 0.0.1 ?

- turn based: done
- single player: done
- asymmetric: done
- game: in progress
- take control of an agent: not directly, but indirectly
- actor manipulation: in progress
- organization: not done
- victory: done, uncover forgotten knowledge and win

With this kind of measurement, the game seems done, but let talk a little bit about some topics...

- game: actual game is for sure bugged (bugs ! :P ) but present to player enough information to make an informed decision, right? I'm not so sure. Like I've said before, this is something I have to understand, with feedback. I know how to improve, but without feedback, my "ideas" are not validated. I'm a little bit confused about right direction to take: inform player on every action outcome (I mean, with future impact of his actions in game world, or take a "paradox" approach, with only tooltip, no clues and let player explore and understand all possible impacts ? I found that a mix between the two is the right choice, but like I've said.. I need feedback :D (see after)

- take control of an agent: I've skipped this part, with focus/calling/manipulation actions and is a big semplification, I know, but give more flexibility. Player can interact everywhere in game world, like he desire. For now I'm cool with that decision

- organization: next on prototype roadmap! I want to explore factions mechanics. Right now characters has a faction and can interact each other following players actions, but I want to add more consequences on factions level. For now I plan a one level factions: warrior, assassin, mage, thief, merchant guilds that can start wars one against other. This wars will impact on each poi where two or more guild are fighting and will trigger more events (rebellion fo example). Next step could be add more factions, like for example kingdom: a "super" factions with a lot of poi with goal to protect this poi!

- victory: is done, at his basic form, for sure. But what I think this prototype need is more challenge. For now if player just focus on one character for each poi and send them to "a call", forgotten knowledge is easy to obtain. I think that outcome of players indirect actions and characters actions could trigger more "special situations", where a "secret" is more difficult to obtain. An example could be: if player force a character to kill another character and this start a war between two factions in three poi, this could block any calling for X turns or maybe a faction has a percentage to uncover this knowledge and .. use into the war with other faction. Another idea is that a character when on calling has a percentage to uncover the forgotten knowledge and obtain a lot of power, power that does not go directly to the player but will force the player to find a way to "steal" this power from character. I have to brainstorm a little bit on these situations, so I can understand what I really want :D


So far my "roadmap" is the following:

- fix bugs: one for example is display more than one event that occour in one turn (my bad, need testers! )
- create new characters: right now if a player force a character to kill everyone else in the poi, can do it.. but there is no one to manipulate!
- organizations: add factions system with war between factions, triggered by factions relations (something like some relations are getting worse over time, or get better over time) or indirectly by users
- manipulation outcome: I want to add more information about possible manipulation outcome. Do to it my idea is to add a panel when user decide to start a manipulation on a character against another character and using madness stat, preview to player the possible outcome (with a percentage, because player does not have total control)
- complicate victory: follow ideas before, add a chance (10% for first power to obtain, more for the following) that an organization or character uncover the secret and alter the equilibrium in the world (factions, relations), so player must find a way to "manipulate" this target in the right way
- events and consequences: I want to find a way for an event to "tag" (and display on ui) a poi with a permanent modifier, so player can see how certain events impact on a poi. An example is +2 rebellion, famine, etc..


Thanks for reading, any feedback as always is appreciated!d
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Gornova

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Re: Infiltration mechanics
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2018, 06:08:45 am »

A quick update on this prototype.

I'm in the middle of faction logic, for now factions start/end wars based on relations and like I've said, some characters actions can make worse relation. Now game is a little bit harder, because these "factions wars" will block player actions for some turns and give character a chance to uncover clues to stop the player.
I have also added factions informations (status and relations with other factions) on faction tooltip but I should change this approach ad move these inforamtions to a dedicated panel, so player can keep track of these stats more easily.
I have to balance a litle bit things, but like before I prefer to provide an update quickly (ASAP) to get feedback and move on!

As always any feedback is appreciated!
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Reelya

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Re: Infiltration mechanics
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2018, 07:37:50 am »

Liberal Crime Squad could easily serve as inspiration for a few mechanics, or even as a base for a total conversion mod.

Inserting sleeper agents into various organisations ✓
Attempting to influence society on a grand scale ✓
Winning people over to your side through debate, seduction or torture ✓
Needing to keep a low profile initially ✓
Delicious brownies ✓

And looking at the existing world map, Evil Genius also comes to mind, e.g. the different types of world missions. Evil Genius is sort of an asymmetric game already, though I'd argue that most single-player experiences are an asymmetric experience.

The core difference I think that you Gornova might actually mean is that it's more of a dynamic world.

e.g. develop a miltary and politics wargame that, by itself, does interesting things. e.g. there are resources, elections, wars, countries becoming puppets of other countries, or revolutions to throw out the oppressors. Make it so that system runs itself as a "game" of it's own. But then ... find fun ways that the player can screw with the model.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 07:42:13 am by Reelya »
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Gornova

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Re: Infiltration mechanics
« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2018, 05:52:13 am »

@thanks Reelya for your suggestions!

My struggle right now is on the "fun side" of things, because in my prototype there is a simplified model and most of the "fun" (very personal, I suppose) came from understand the model and use it (like many other games, of course!)
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Gornova

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Re: Infiltration mechanics
« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2018, 08:04:08 am »

I want also to remember buttefly effect, I think is relevant in my discussion about this prototype, but is somewhat in contrast with my statement. If my idea is to model a complicated world (based on simple rules) and observe how much bigger effect can become (from player or from other actors), I think there is not so much fun, because is too much impredictable, so.. butterfly effect here :D
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Gornova

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Re: Infiltration mechanics
« Reply #25 on: April 23, 2018, 05:03:05 pm »

I've just release version 0.0.2 for this prototype, check on my blog here

In version 0.0.2:

- added recruitment system: if a poi has less than 3 character, there is a 2% of chance every turn that
- added faction system: now factions can triggered a war with other factions, guided by relations. When there is a war between factions, player action is not possible. After 10 turns, there is a small chance that factions start a peace
- maximum character for every poi 7, random between 3 and 7
- a lot of bugfixes!
- notification system on left side for multiple events
- now high madness actions has negative impact -10 on faction relations         
- display population value on poi stats (used when rebels recruit it's army

First let me thank all people that has supported this experiment, both on forums and on itch.io ! 14 downloads, thanks guys! For a little experiment like this one, is a great result!

My plan now is to work at least for some other releases, so any feedback is appreciated!
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Gornova

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Re: Infiltration mechanics
« Reply #26 on: May 05, 2018, 11:47:37 am »

I've just released version 0.0.3 with a video (wow!), all update on my blog

Release notes:

 + added intro event panel
 + added automatic advancement for turns with pause
 + added power and awareness icons
 + character portraits based on roles
 + added help button
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Reelya

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Re: Infiltration mechanics
« Reply #27 on: May 06, 2018, 03:54:02 am »

Is the game's main map hand-drawn at the moment?

Gornova

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Re: Infiltration mechanics
« Reply #28 on: May 06, 2018, 11:00:41 am »

Is the game's main map hand-drawn at the moment?

yes, it's static and made by me
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toonguy40

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Re: Infiltration mechanics
« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2018, 06:23:23 pm »

So right now, running the game causes nothing but a grey screen.  Specifically https://prnt.sc/jf1kxk

I'm interested in trying the game out and giving feedback, but obviously that's impossible right now.

Also: Would it be possible to have future versions be a .exe instead of a .jar file?  I don't know if that could be causing issues, since I do have Java (just updated it for this game, actually) but am used to just running .exe.

Similarly, having the README be a .txt instead of a .md would be helpful.
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