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Author Topic: Infiltration - ancient evil god game simulator  (Read 10921 times)

Gornova

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Re: Infiltration - ancient evil god game simulator
« Reply #75 on: September 11, 2018, 02:35:29 am »

Well, my opinion on tags is a double thumbs-up.  Having resolutions be influenced by randomised or earnt tags opens up a lot of opportunities for interesting emergent gameplay, and it has the bonus of being easy to change and add to.  The trick to making it interesting will be ensuring that the tags interact often enough and in a meaningful way to bring about situations that the player can work out the likely outcomes without being entirely predictable.

yes, we are on the same line, let me clarify one point: for now tags will be "passive" with only a bonus/malus and stop, when I will have clarified how they interact each other in "active" way I will add more tags of this type.
An idea that comes up on my mind is to create a tag, for example "undead" that can be added to creature created by a mad mage and these creatures will trigger response (note: a quest!) for other npcs that hate "unded" creatures :D
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Rowanas

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Re: Infiltration - ancient evil god game simulator
« Reply #76 on: September 11, 2018, 09:14:29 am »

Well, my opinion on tags is a double thumbs-up.  Having resolutions be influenced by randomised or earnt tags opens up a lot of opportunities for interesting emergent gameplay, and it has the bonus of being easy to change and add to.  The trick to making it interesting will be ensuring that the tags interact often enough and in a meaningful way to bring about situations that the player can work out the likely outcomes without being entirely predictable.

yes, we are on the same line, let me clarify one point: for now tags will be "passive" with only a bonus/malus and stop, when I will have clarified how they interact each other in "active" way I will add more tags of this type.
An idea that comes up on my mind is to create a tag, for example "undead" that can be added to creature created by a mad mage and these creatures will trigger response (note: a quest!) for other npcs that hate "unded" creatures :D

Oh no worries, I anticipate that all things will be simple and limited to begin with, to serve as a placeholder and framework for greater complexity at a later point.
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I agree with Urist. Steampunk is like Darth Vader winning Holland's Next Top Model. It would be awesome but not something I'd like in this game.
Unfortunately dying involves the amputation of the entire body from the dwarf.

Gornova

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Re: Infiltration - ancient evil god game simulator
« Reply #77 on: September 12, 2018, 02:38:53 pm »

Inspired by tag discussions, I want to share some thoughts about future directions for this prototype.
I've written before that scope for this project is only to be a prototype, and like other prototypes, should answer questions. In this case, questions are about game mechanics and how they interact each other to form player experience.
Current status about mechanics is the following (see this msg about mechanics discussion: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169949.msg7800030#msg7800030)

Note: pois => point of interest, TBC => to be completed

- game world: game world generation on this stage is mostly completed. For sure I can add variation, more procedural content, procedural generated map, better graphics.. but is out of scope right now. Have a group of pois (cities for now) is enough, or I want to say, the minimum foundation for start to play. For me this side is completed!
- point of interest: now pois are completed: with districts cities are now a stage for npc confrontations, battles and so on. I want to stop now on this side, because I can add more special pois (dungeons, crypts, villages, battle fields..) but is only variation on the same idea. What will bring more, in term of gameplay, is add new special mechanics for particular pois. For example, add "unlockable" pois, after some events are triggered (see below)
- poi triggers: (TBC) one of the "core" feature I've identified for this prototype is possibility to add some triggers on a poi. A trigger in my mind should be defined as a series of condition on poi variables and some actions on poi. One example I've come in mind is to create some hidden poi, like a dungeon.
This dungeon will provide unique quests for npc ( and also tags!) and some kind of tag (bonus) for player too (for example bonus on manipulation action, but is only an example). So player will unlock this poi after first rebellion in another city, with an event. I think that this kind of triggers, if used correctly, will provide more options for gameplay and my reference model are Xcom games, where player complete missions and acquire more experience and this advancement trigger tier 2 mission and so on.
- characters: on this side I'm on maintenance mode right now. This means that my focus is to fix bugs. I'm satisfied with "city simulations" and characters interaction. Maybe I will work on relation side, bug always to add more possibility for players
- ancient one: inspired from TWS, I have considered a lot of specific ancient one power, instead of "generic one" (like corrupt), but I want to keep it simple. How it's possible to design ancient one's power without know which elements can be modified by player ?
- ancient one level up: (TBC) for now this is covered knowledge unlock and special "tags" for ancient one, maybe after a manipulated npc complete a particular quest. After observing how paradox games are made (EU4 or HoI4 for example), seems that add a lot of small bonuses, unlocked often are a good way to keep player busy. I don't know right now how this fit in my prototype, this is one of my research questions. I don't want achievements, but something player can have influence on. For this I'm thinking about ancient one religion. Because player take role of ancient god, what fit best of a religion? After first unlock of player power, this mechanics will be unlocked and with a new dedicated interface, with more and more corrupted npc (and many followers!) you can build on top of this base your cult. My idea is to use npc followers in the good old sacrifice way and in this way unlock new tags. These bonuses or tags will provide bonuses for player challenges or can be used for power-up and npc ?
- player actions: here I've done for now. I have a lot, I mean a list of dozen and dozen of possible actions, but I want to KISS (keep it simple stupid!). Focus to corrupt (maybe is better corrupt?), calling for doing stuff in a poi and manipulate for interact between two different npcs. Of course actions could be complicated, but.. not for this prototype!
- corrupt characters: see above
- character action: (TBC) npc fight for poi dominance, but I think is not right choice. Dominance is not the only way npc could be, so my idea is to add a "nature" or "destiny" for every npc. For example good old Uzbar, the barbarian, will be violent by nature and every interaction or challenge will be solved with a physical challenge or a fight. Of course with madness this will be worse, but I think that different natures will provide more variability for each character when they interact each other, for fight in a poi or not. Why all npc should fight? Maybe some npc can start to study, connect the dots, or improve abilities. I want to be KISS even here and just try little variation, not too much
- follow clues/ uncover ancient one: I know from various reports that this is a simplified version and most of the runs npc cannot find player hidden in the world. This is fine. I mean is a matter of balance right now and even if I have some ideas (like chosen one from TWS.. keep it simple!)
- move characters: (TBC) This is something I want! For example bobby2hands made a great work in Shadows behind the throne (see here https://bobbytwohands.itch.io/shadows-behind-the-throne ) with a lot of characters moving on the map. Keep in mind that for this prototype graphics, animations and so on are not a focus, so I want to implement very basic movement: and action that characters can do on some triggers (to escape death after a manipulation, for example!) or after a calling from player. This an important point: right now cities are islands with no interaction. If characters can move around, they can start to mess with internal city equilibrium and of course player with it. But instead of TWS, based on direct control on few key adepts, I want to experiment some indirect control over npcs, like force them to leave a city, move to another city and start to search knowledge there
- solve quests: completed!
- character experience: with tag system is completed, at least for this prototype. Experience could be much more (xp, levels, items, powerful followers and so on..) but KISS again!
- organization: guilds are simplified right now, again for scope. I have ideas on this side too, for example a guild could hide a piece of forgotten knowledge somewhere (a hidden poi, see triggers ) and as player to uncover this secret you should help your corrupted agent to climb the ranks inside the organization. This could add some variation on the main formula, but not for this prototype
- organization bonuses: originally this idea comes from "rank" inside a guild for a npc. If a guild is powerful, win wars, get more points and provide more assistance on npc with higher rank. A simple formula.. but is something connected to organization rank and want to keep it out from this prototype, maybe in the future
- organization diplomacy: this is also out of the scope. Right now guild can start wars each others.. and this is a mess caused by player too! For example if a manipulated npc kill another npc in a city.. this will cause problems between guilds. I don't understand if this is something that players can see right now, maybe with a proper guild's relations window, this could be more easy to follow


So far my points on design side are the following:

1) work on unlockable pois, using triggers to add more variation and more re playability for the game
2) design and think ancient one religion, to unlock bonuses, based on number of corrupted npcs and followers
3) destiny types for npc, this will guide actions and reactions to a changing world
4) moveable characters between pois

On next builds I will focus in find my way to solve these points and like always, any comment, feedback, critique are welcome!
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Gornova

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Re: Infiltration - ancient evil god game simulator
« Reply #78 on: September 26, 2018, 03:49:06 pm »

So here we are for Infiltration 0.0.7, you can download it here!

For the video about 0.0.7 see here

In this release 0.0.7 for my prototype, Infiltration, I've worked to add a new fundamental system, tagging, that interact with various elements in the game. This tagging system refers to a simple concept: actors in the game (npc, not playable characters) can have tags, like for example "strong" or "ignorant" and these tags will affect how npc can interact with game world through quests and player actions, challenges.
Tags can be good, with an active bonus (+20% on physical challenges) for npc or really bad, with a malus (-50% on mental challenges) and are added randomly from a customizable pool of tags on actor creation and after a particular quests are solved or failed.

In this version you will find following tags:

- generous, +20% social challenges
- greedy -20% social challenges
- ignorant -20% mental challenges
- intelligent +20% mental challenges
- strong +20% physical challenges
- weak -20% physical challenges
- scarred -30% social challenges
- anathema -30% social challenges
- falseGod -30% mental challenges
- renowned +10% social challenges
- integrity +50% resist focus player action
- willpower +50% resist calling player action
- determination +50% resist manipulation player action

As you can see from the list there are two big types of tags: one related to challenges (related to quests and actor interaction with game world) and player action resist bonuses.

Thanks to awesome platelayers I've found a nice way to filter living cities simulation behind the scenes in the quest log and with a filter by city on the left of quest log, now the player can be informed on a very specific city and not all together!


Like always any feedback is welcome!
« Last Edit: September 26, 2018, 03:50:56 pm by Gornova »
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FallacyofUrist

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Re: Infiltration - ancient evil god game simulator
« Reply #79 on: September 26, 2018, 08:56:25 pm »

So for example someone could be traumatized after their friend tried to stab them in the back?
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Gornova

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Re: Infiltration - ancient evil god game simulator
« Reply #80 on: September 27, 2018, 02:56:52 am »

So for example someone could be traumatized after their friend tried to stab them in the back?

for now relationship betwen actors are only hate, so there are no friends in this world (sad but true) :D
Seriously, my idea in game terms is: if a friend stab in the back and actor, he/she will increase madness values, so future actions, reactions etc.. will be more on extremes.. and friendship is broken for sure!
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Deon

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Re: Infiltration - ancient evil god game simulator
« Reply #81 on: October 02, 2018, 09:47:57 am »

Glad to see another (probably much more skilled) developer trying their hands on a game.
I recently posted a topic about my future project in Other Games, and moved it here following your example.

I will need some time after work to check the prototype. So far I only watched the video, and the idea is definitely cool and interesting to me.
I will try to come back with some meaningful feedback later, and I will definitely be watching the thread.
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Gornova

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Re: Infiltration - ancient evil god game simulator
« Reply #82 on: October 02, 2018, 10:12:30 am »

Glad to see another (probably much more skilled) developer trying their hands on a game.
I recently posted a topic about my future project in Other Games, and moved it here following your example.

you are welcome! I think is not matter of skill, but dedication and time :d

Quote
I will need some time after work to check the prototype. So far I only watched the video, and the idea is definitely cool and interesting to me.
I will try to come back with some meaningful feedback later, and I will definitely be watching the thread.

Thanks! Any feedback is welcome as always!
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Rowanas

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Re: Infiltration - ancient evil god game simulator
« Reply #83 on: October 03, 2018, 07:07:09 am »

Thanks! Any feedback is welcome as always!

Soon!  Soon m'lord, I promise!  I've just filled all of my weeks and weekends of late, and it has been hard to find time to play the latest version.
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I agree with Urist. Steampunk is like Darth Vader winning Holland's Next Top Model. It would be awesome but not something I'd like in this game.
Unfortunately dying involves the amputation of the entire body from the dwarf.

Gornova

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Re: Infiltration - ancient evil god game simulator
« Reply #84 on: October 03, 2018, 08:01:13 am »

Thanks! Any feedback is welcome as always!

Soon!  Soon m'lord, I promise!  I've just filled all of my weeks and weekends of late, and it has been hard to find time to play the latest version.

don't worry! My idea is to update on slow windows (1 month / 2months) with small changes, so if you miss one version you don't miss too much in terms of game evolution
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Rowanas

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Re: Infiltration - ancient evil god game simulator
« Reply #85 on: October 13, 2018, 03:51:44 am »

So the changes here are small, but definitely a step in the right direction, giving a little more to consider and play with.

So... where are the text files for the new feature?  I need to go digging and changing :D

Oh, and where are the text thingies for the cities? There are errors that must be replaced!
« Last Edit: October 13, 2018, 03:56:43 am by Rowanas »
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I agree with Urist. Steampunk is like Darth Vader winning Holland's Next Top Model. It would be awesome but not something I'd like in this game.
Unfortunately dying involves the amputation of the entire body from the dwarf.

Gornova

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Re: Infiltration - ancient evil god game simulator
« Reply #86 on: October 14, 2018, 02:34:01 pm »

Sure! I will send you an email asap!  :) thanks!
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Gornova

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Re: Infiltration - ancient evil god game simulator
« Reply #87 on: October 29, 2018, 05:40:24 pm »

Infiltration 0.0.8 is out, downalod from here: https://gornova.itch.io/infiltration

First let me thank players that provide me with feedback! Thanks! I really appreciate any feedback, report and ideas, so feel free to share your ideas!
This version is another step on the conclusion of this prototype, because I have a clear set of features I want to provide to players: in this case, roads and trips.

This is something bobby2hands with Shadowss Behind the throne (https://bobbytwohands.itch.io/shadows-behind-the-throne) has addressed for sure better than me: let npc move around and do actions.
In this release I have created the foundation of this concept, where an npc can move betwen cities following connections, so for example the kingdom capital, Theros is connected with any other cities of the kingdom. I know that from graphical point of view this is more than rudimental, but again is a prototype: I need to test mechanics and features together, so here we are. An npc can move between cities if has at least 2 money on his pocket and no control on a district or corrupted by a player. At start this is something caotic, but with some interventation from player this will become more stable.. and exploitable maybe?

I have fixed many bugs, but one in particular was very strange: a corrupted npc can investigate against player. I mean, a fully controlled one.. not so fun, right? At least for me, feel free to share your ideas on the topic!

I have decided also to use some awesome icons from Lorc free set here, https://opengameart.org/content/700-rpg-icons

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Gornova

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Re: Infiltration - ancient evil god game simulator
« Reply #88 on: December 19, 2018, 10:35:47 am »

Quick update: hidden pois mechanics is in place and I'm testing it. Now game is less predictable because as player you have a set of cities where you can corrupt npc, but not all of them has hidden knowledge. To find all hidden knowledge locations, you must corrupt at least one npc, send it to a quest in the city and some cities has an hidden connection to a new poi. This new pois (caves, dungeons, etc..) will be revealed and then you can send npc to investigate there.
The interesting parts in this hidden pois are about various creatures inside: not all hidden pois will be a safe place for your agents, so be aware of that!

I hope to deliver next update soon (ASAP) and get feedback, this change require some time and work, but give new choices to player and game is more interesting (and not so quick to win).
Balance monsters fight inside dungeons will be tricky, I'm working to make it interesting!


I've found a new game in development (not related in any way): https://store.steampowered.com/app/958740
From few informations seems to be a game more focused regard my game or TWS and this is good! I appreciated also combat turns mechanics, with dice rolls and so on. More board game than a simulation, is on my radar, will see next dev diaries about various mechanics.

Update: they posted an update and events are picked from a deck, like cards. Not sure about replayability, but is a cool point to investigate.
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Gornova

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Re: Infiltration - ancient evil god game simulator
« Reply #89 on: January 08, 2019, 05:51:18 pm »

I've decided to put in this update just hidden poi mechanics and put monsters fight in next update, to release ASAP (a lot of time.. but ASAP) so... Infiltration 0.0.9 "Go down that road" is out !

Download it from here

"Go down that road" open up new possibilities for player to command corrupted humans, so for example now you can command them to go a city or some other points on the map. If you take a look to the prototype, will notice that I've implemented unlockable pois, because not all hidden knowledge you need to find will be in cities, but scattered around the world, in particular in a cave, where in next updates I will put some monsters to fight!

As always any feedback is appreciated!
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