Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic: Quantum stockpiles  (Read 10757 times)

janamdo

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Quantum stockpiles
« on: March 22, 2018, 04:39:15 am »

Don't understand this Quantum Stockpiles ... why it exists besides the normal stockpiles ?
Is this cheating gameplay ?
Logged

Shonai_Dweller

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Quantum stockpiles
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2018, 05:11:31 am »

It's not intended gameplay, just a quirk of the mechanics and some missing physics (things don't disperse when they fall on top of other things, or something). But people justify it as it slows down fps death (which of course, is also not intended to happen, but does).

So it's cheating in that it saves space which under the "rules" you'd normally have to dig out. But it's acceptable because it's vital to keep big fortresses going (point of the game, after all). Also happens to some of us by accident, so we turn a blind eye. ;)
« Last Edit: March 22, 2018, 05:13:44 am by Shonai_Dweller »
Logged

janamdo

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Quantum stockpiles
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2018, 05:40:53 am »

Thanks!
As i understand it now correct..people are forced to use a quantum stockpile, because there occur fps issues when the fort becomes large ?





Logged

Leonidas

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Quantum stockpiles
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2018, 05:43:17 am »

Quantum stockpiles also allow a simplicity and precision that you can't get with normal stockpiles, at the cost of micromanagement. With a quantum stockpile, you can specify that this item is to be dropped exactly there. Sometimes that's very useful.
Logged

Shonai_Dweller

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Quantum stockpiles
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2018, 05:55:54 am »

Quantum stockpiles also allow a simplicity and precision that you can't get with normal stockpiles, at the cost of micromanagement. With a quantum stockpile, you can specify that this item is to be dropped exactly there. Sometimes that's very useful.
At this point we're already past my necessity/exploit line, but yeah, there are various uses for the QS. And added micromanagement is something some people really crave in itself. :)
Logged

Xyon

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Quantum stockpiles
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2018, 06:26:43 am »

It certainly does help with items that could otherwise be stored into bins, but run into job cancel issues due to multiple items being inside a bin. Or even some items that should be possible to store into bins, but are not coded to be stored into bins.   Really I think if bins/barrels for storage in stockpiles worked a little better I wouldn't be as keen to use quantom stockpiles.

But heck, I'm still getting used to optimal wheelbarrel use for hauling items, and then combining that with minecarts and other such nonsense, good fun though.
Logged

Ulfarr

  • Bay Watcher
  • Going on a pilgrimage to Mars
    • View Profile
Re: Quantum stockpiles
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2018, 06:28:23 am »

It's not exactly that you are forced to use them or you'll get fps issues.Yes, it helps with keeping fps higher but it's not going to save you from fps death as your population increases.

 For me, at least, it's mostly because QSP allow for a more minimal fort, which is both easier to control and more responsive. Without QSPs you'll have to dig space for stockpiles which generates new stones which you'll need to stockpile somewhere thus you need to dig more space, so you get even more stone and so forth. Meanwhile everyone is busy moving stuff between the stockpiles instead of actually doing any usefull work.
Logged
Bring Kobold Kamp to LNP! graphics compatibility fix.

So the conclusion I'm getting here is that we use QSPs because dwarves can't pilot submarines.

anewaname

  • Bay Watcher
  • The mattock... My choice for problem solving.
    • View Profile
Re: Quantum stockpiles
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2018, 12:11:28 pm »

QS is not a separate type of stockpile. "Quantum Stockpile" is just the name that players gave to the situation. In DF, you have a pile of objects in the same tile, and they are held in place (or "owned") by the single stockpile tile underneath them. It is like that gaming situation where you are hauling around 10 suits of plate armor in a backpack because they require one backpack slot for each and because the weight and volume of that armor is not considered. The FPS benefits are a separate issue.

I always make a minecart QS for refuse stockpiles, because a refuse pile can be filled with 300 teeth, leaving the corpses to rot inside the fort.
Logged
How did I manage to successfully apply the lessons of The Screwtape Letters to my perceptions of big grocery stores?
     and
If you're going to kill me, I'm allowed to scream.

gchristopher

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Quantum stockpiles
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2018, 10:53:57 am »

I don't consider quantum stockpiles a cheat at all. They're merely a convenient workaround for DF's limited item storage mechanics; a world where shelves have yet to be invented.
Logged

Kametec_Housen

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Quantum stockpiles
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2018, 12:57:31 pm »

I use quantum stockpiles to quickly move stone out of places I want to have clean, like waterworks or roofs. I don't place stockpiles under the dumping zones though. I usually have 2 masons and 2 craftdwarves dealing with excess stones. When legendary, they keep several dwarves with wheelbarrows busy. But I don't know how to make them pick up stones from a specific area, unlike quantums, which is why I use them.
Logged

Leonidas

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Quantum stockpiles
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2018, 01:00:56 pm »

I always make a minecart QS for refuse stockpiles, because a refuse pile can be filled with 300 teeth, leaving the corpses to rot inside the fort.
And that's how we got QSPs in the first place. That's why QSPs are still subject to the orders for outdoor refuse, which can be very confusing for new players. Dumping was designed to consolidate teeth and severed body parts, which you wouldn't want to put into bins. And then the idea just grew from there.
Logged

anewaname

  • Bay Watcher
  • The mattock... My choice for problem solving.
    • View Profile
Re: Quantum stockpiles
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2018, 08:06:03 pm »

I always make a minecart QS for refuse stockpiles, because a refuse pile can be filled with 300 teeth, leaving the corpses to rot inside the fort.
And that's how we got QSPs in the first place. That's why QSPs are still subject to the orders for outdoor refuse, which can be very confusing for new players. Dumping was designed to consolidate teeth and severed body parts, which you wouldn't want to put into bins. And then the idea just grew from there.
Yeah, I was just pointing out that QSPs are not a part of DF design, but a part of DF gameplay. One could argue that QSP do not actually exist in DF.

If you consider the "available volume" of a tile and the available size and density data of items, dropping an item in a tile could lead to that item or other items moving out of the tile, as well as dwarfs being unable to move into the tile, or dwarfs needing to remove some items from a tile to another tile before they can pick up a specific item. That would be an FPS consumer, but damn cool.
Logged
How did I manage to successfully apply the lessons of The Screwtape Letters to my perceptions of big grocery stores?
     and
If you're going to kill me, I'm allowed to scream.

KittyTac

  • Bay Watcher
  • Impending Catsplosion. [PREFSTRING:aloofness]
    • View Profile
Re: Quantum stockpiles
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2018, 12:53:19 am »

I never use exploits like QSP.
Logged
Don't trust this toaster that much, it could be a villain in disguise.
Mostly phone-posting, sorry for any typos or autocorrect hijinks.

Pyrite

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Quantum stockpiles
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2018, 04:11:38 am »

I pretty much only use them for stone, though I suppose I might start using them for body parts as well: after the last two sieges, I think a mass goblin grave is in order.

I avoid using them for anything that can be binned.
Logged

Xyon

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Quantum stockpiles
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2018, 09:34:28 am »

I always make a minecart QS for refuse stockpiles, because a refuse pile can be filled with 300 teeth, leaving the corpses to rot inside the fort.
And that's how we got QSPs in the first place. That's why QSPs are still subject to the orders for outdoor refuse, which can be very confusing for new players. Dumping was designed to consolidate teeth and severed body parts, which you wouldn't want to put into bins. And then the idea just grew from there.
Yeah, I was just pointing out that QSPs are not a part of DF design, but a part of DF gameplay. One could argue that QSP do not actually exist in DF.

If you consider the "available volume" of a tile and the available size and density data of items, dropping an item in a tile could lead to that item or other items moving out of the tile, as well as dwarfs being unable to move into the tile, or dwarfs needing to remove some items from a tile to another tile before they can pick up a specific item. That would be an FPS consumer, but damn cool.

I usually consider each tile as having infinite volume available to it, because a dragon takes one tile, and a kitten takes one tile, and any creatures bigger than a dragon also take one tile
Logged
Pages: [1] 2