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This mod is discontinued

But there's gonna be a better one in the future
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Author Topic: [47.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.7)  (Read 69321 times)

Sver

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Re: [44.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.6)
« Reply #180 on: April 01, 2020, 06:27:38 am »

Just a heads up: since Toady went on to work on the Steam DF for now as it seems, I'm wrapping up the next mod release in a few days.
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DF Combat Reworked
No overpowered force transfer, no easy life without a kidney, more functional variety among the weapons and other improvements.

Uthimienure

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Re: [44.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.6)
« Reply #181 on: April 01, 2020, 06:41:42 am »

Just a heads up: since Toady went on to work on the Steam DF for now as it seems, I'm wrapping up the next mod release in a few days.
I'm looking forward to it  :)
And I'm interested in similar to what vettlingr said, a vanilla-only mod that I can drop in.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2020, 06:45:08 am by Uthimienure »
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The cave crocodile bites the miner in the lower body, lightly tapping the target! - DF
The hoary marmot corpse looks surprised by the ferocity of the Spearmaster's onslaught. - DF

Sver

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Re: [44.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.6)
« Reply #182 on: April 01, 2020, 07:16:30 am »

What's your opinion on the mod's body rework, by the way? Meaning the addition of shoulders, hips and covered facial features. Should I keep those in the "Vanilla+" version or remove them too?
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DF Combat Reworked
No overpowered force transfer, no easy life without a kidney, more functional variety among the weapons and other improvements.

Uthimienure

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Re: [44.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.6)
« Reply #183 on: April 01, 2020, 08:07:01 am »

I'll start by saying I've never played your mod. My DF experience began with 44.12 and I've played LNP, Meph, Masterwork until 47.XX came out. Then I played vanilla for a while, then CavEmp, and now I'm into Fall From Grace, which is the furthest I've strayed from the vanilla weapons/armor, and I'm really enjoying Fall From Grace. That being said...

All my life (and I'm not young anymore, lol) I've been very interested in "old-style" games that simulate personal combat pre-gunpowder. If you've heard of RuneQuest, GURPS, etc... I spent lots of my youth's free time making my own game, kind of a super-detailed medieval combat game based off of the best parts of about a half-dozen paper & pencil RPGs.

Your original post intrigues me greatly and I intend to play your full mod when released. But just in case it's too "over the top" for me, I would like to fall back on the vanilla-only thing.

I'm just beginning to explore DF's raws because I wanted to get answers to questions about how Fall From Grace's details work. And I've added the tiny code for "more leather mod" into most everything I play... that's all I've done with scratching the surface of DF.

Now that you know my life story, I'll answer your question with a question:

Does your body rework include all humanoid creatures, or just dwarfs?
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The cave crocodile bites the miner in the lower body, lightly tapping the target! - DF
The hoary marmot corpse looks surprised by the ferocity of the Spearmaster's onslaught. - DF

Uthimienure

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Re: [44.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.6)
« Reply #184 on: April 01, 2020, 08:25:58 am »

One other thing, will your full mod include an updated (to 47.04) version of DF Revised, or is that not available yet?

Installation:
1. Recommended if you play vanilla-ish DF: DF Revised by Taffer, as a base over which to install this mod. Revised fixes a lot of bugs and inconsistencies, while staying true to the vanilla DF spirit. It is fully compatible! If you only use Revised, you can safely ignore the spoilers below and just overwrite everything with my mod's files.


But seriously, as I read through your OP, it sounds like you are doing for DF the same thing I was doing when I created the game described in my previous post, so I'm pretty sure your mod will be awesome.
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The cave crocodile bites the miner in the lower body, lightly tapping the target! - DF
The hoary marmot corpse looks surprised by the ferocity of the Spearmaster's onslaught. - DF

Sver

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Re: [44.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.6)
« Reply #185 on: April 01, 2020, 08:44:20 am »

Quote
All my life (and I'm not young anymore, lol) I've been very interested in "old-style" games that simulate personal combat pre-gunpowder. If you've heard of RuneQuest, GURPS, etc... I spent lots of my youth's free time making my own game, kind of a super-detailed medieval combat game based off of the best parts of about a half-dozen paper & pencil RPGs.

Heheh, I could be writing that as well  :D
Down to having my own little tabletop project with realistic 15th century combat being one of the primary focuses.
Although, I was and still remain more on the "experience" side of things than "numbers" - e.g. that it is generally more important that the gameplay conveys an intended feeling rather than sticks to scientifically accurate numbers. Why I am telling that, it's because my mod is quite full of this approach, which is most noticeable in the sheer amount of metal, coal and other stuff required to make anything better than a rusty pitchfork. Which may or may not be something you agree with.

Quote
Does your body rework include all humanoid creatures, or just dwarfs?

All humanoid creatures, including animal man variants. I strive to make the mod as adaptable as possible to whatever playable bird people someone might want to pick in Adventure Mode or mod in Fortress Mode. There are some little crunchy-fluff-type tweaks here and there, like beaks and (snail) stalks still sticking out of the helmets, or the eponymous bird people's joints being more fragile than those of land-dwelling races, because it makes them a tiny bit more interesting in my opinion.

Addressing the primary reasons why the body rework was added in the first place:

1) In vanilla DF, there's a bug with helmet coverage where it does not protect anything that's "on" the head - only the things which are "inside" the head. However, skulls and heads are kind of separate entities as far as the game is concerned, so it is possible to make facial features protected by helmets with putting them "inside" heads, but "outside" skulls. Hence, the "internal facial features".

2) One of the peeves I've had with the combat in DF is that limbs are much more critical to survival than torsoes, because torso wounds rarely really impact a creature's ability to fight as much as loosing a weapon, a shield or stance does. Adding "internal limbs" in the form of shoulders and hips to the torso allows torso wounds to sometimes impact the limbs too, making torso protection more important overall.

I hope this explanation makes it more clear.

Quote
One other thing, will your full mod include an updated (to 47.04) version of DF Revised, or is that not available yet?

Taffer hasn't updated his mod so far, so that installation point shall be obscured for now. However, my mod's next release will include a couple of relevant features from Revised, such as its quality-of-life reactions, improved morale and rebalanced unarmed combat for civilized creatures, updated for DF 47.04.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2020, 08:49:40 am by Sver »
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DF Combat Reworked
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Uthimienure

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Re: [44.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.6)
« Reply #186 on: April 01, 2020, 09:12:24 am »

Thank for your your thoughtful reply!
I can hardly wait to try your mod.

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The cave crocodile bites the miner in the lower body, lightly tapping the target! - DF
The hoary marmot corpse looks surprised by the ferocity of the Spearmaster's onslaught. - DF

Sver

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Re: [44.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.6)
« Reply #187 on: April 01, 2020, 09:33:58 am »

I very much appreciate that  :D
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DF Combat Reworked
No overpowered force transfer, no easy life without a kidney, more functional variety among the weapons and other improvements.

Sver

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Re: [47.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.7)
« Reply #188 on: April 03, 2020, 07:26:08 pm »

v1.7 Released

Major changes:
* Full support for Dwarf Fortress v0.47.04!
* Mod's installation now includes Revised's unarmed combat and morale tweaks, as well as its quality-of-life reactions; as a temporary measure until Revised is updated. Also, copied over hair styling for humans, elves and goblins from Revised to my entity files, as it's a plain improvement.
* Removed redundant weapons: broadaxe, war club, flanged mace, long spear, arming sword.
* Removed redundant armor: aketon.
* Weapon set readjustment!
Spoiler: Details (click to show/hide)
* New metal rework! Comes in two parts, one of which is included by default, and the other as an optional. More details here!
* New optional, included by default: Ammo from cheap materials!
Spoiler: Details (click to show/hide)
* New optional, included by default: Bulk reactions for cheaper metal belts! They can now be made in batches of 3 by combining 1 metal bar and 1 piece of leather. Performed at the Metalsmith's Forge by a Metalcrafter.
* New optional: "crude" armors to reduce smelting yields from siege loot. Amount of metal bars returned from smelting crude armors is based on the garments weight (e.g. volume) in bars - rather than its combat effectiveness, as it is for normal armors. Also, crude plate armors are heavier than normal ones, but not less protective, while crude mail armors are 5% less protective, but weight the same.
* Optional War Horses are discontinued for now. There's a write up for their rework in the future.
* Optional Siege Engines now use wrought iron from the new metal rework for their armor. Also, removed NOEMOTION and NOFEAR from them, but added 1-lvl Discipline to simulate the hypothetical crew better.
* Optional Tactical Civilizations have been remade to be more "thematic" rather than balanced, thus, providing for more varied challenge and more unique feel to each of them. Some goblin tactical civs now also use plague onagers from Optional Siege Engines. Human tactical civs are now limited to spawn only 2 per type by default.
* New trap component: spike-covered cage. Inspired by the iron maiden and similar devices, it delivers a barrage of quick little stabs.
* Buffed all trap components, but also made them more expensive. See "Trap Components and info".
* Major buff for stabbing attacks!
Spoiler: Details (click to show/hide)
* Ammo rebalance!
Spoiler: Details (click to show/hide)
* Major buff for blunt attacks!
Spoiler: Details (click to show/hide)
* Removed "unlucky" attacks from all weapons except pick, flail and scourge. As part of the new weapon cost rebalance.
* Redesigned flail and scourge. Flail is now the one-handed "spiked ball chained to a short handle" thingie, a little less unlucky and with readjusted attack speeds and velocities. Scourge is now the two-handed "baton chained to a long pole" thingie, with reworked attacks to make it into a powerful anti-armor and anti-shield weapon.
* Redesigned large dagger. Gave it larger area, but much greater velocity too. Now it causes more bleeding, can break joints and damage some armors. Also, gave it a higher two-handed size limit and removed pommel strike.
* Rebalanced the short sword to be inbetween the removed arming sword and the old-version short sword in all matters.
* War hammer, polehammer and poleaxe bashes are much more powerful and can break joints now, but no longer have a multi-attack bonus.
* Removed the weak edged 'hook' attack from hawk axe and dagger-axe, their other attacks took on its speed and multi-attack bonus instead.
* The 'snatch' attack for hooked axe, dagger-axe and falx got better speed and a multi-attack bonus.
* Recurve bow is now slightly stronger than longbow, but costs much more metal to make.
* Higher weight for hammerhead bolt. The optimal material is now the new hardened bronze (density 8810), instead of silver.
* Partial plate (e.g. all rigid armor with below 100% blockchance) is now much lighter, to make it a more viable choice.
* More detailed and realistic coverage for ribcage.
* More detailed and realistic relative positions and coverage for facial features.

Minor changes:
** Updated the "Tips and notes" and "Melee Weapon Tiers and info" with more precise information.
** Replaced the old and uninformative "Full list of armor" with a new section: "Armor Types, Roles and info"!
** A bit more weapon options in my dwarven preset.
** Decreased melee velocity for ammunition to be in line with other one-handed weapons.
** Readjusted whether or not some weapons can be made out of stone (obsidian in vanilla, also chert and malachite with the new optional metal rework).
** Minor tweaks to some attack speeds.
** Reduced area for all 'slap with flat' attacks. Except for falx, where it was slightly increased.
** Buffed 'spike strikes' (hawk axe, halberd, poleaxe, polehammer, flail) a little bit.
** A bit lower speed and bad multi-attack modifier for maul.
** Buffed the poleaxe 'hack' attack to represent its sturdier blade.
** Made parrying dagger better at piercing weak armor.
** War knife is a little better vs limbs.
** A bit higher contact area and penetration for glaive to make it better against beasts.
** Slightly reduced contact areas for spiked staff to make it stronger.
** Buffed crossbow and arbalest very-very slightly.
** A bit lower penetration for barbed arrows.
** Slightly readjusted properties of crescent arrows.
** Increased penetration for blowdarts.
** Increased minimum and two-handed size limits for hatchet.
** Cuirass can now be made of bone/shell/chitin.
** Tassets can now be made of shell/chitin.
** Chestplate is now "under" layer, to be worn underneath mail, and can be combined with other plate armors. Recommended use for weak, but dense metals (copper, bronze), as they're good at repelling blunt force, while mail will protect it from cuts.
** Mail cape and quilted tunic are now "cover" layer, so they protect plate armor underneath from edged wear.
** Slight increase to layer permit for cap (helmet) to allow for an additional padded coif underneath.
** Lower layer permit for pauldrons to avoid excessive stacking.
** Fixed dwarves in my entity presets not having training weapons.
** Doublet will now be worn by invaders sometimes, as was aketon.
** Fixed incorrect colors for optional "rock" metals. Also, they are no longer made into inappropriate (metal) objects.
** Fixed arrowhead kits being possible to decorate.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2020, 06:38:03 am by Sver »
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DF Combat Reworked
No overpowered force transfer, no easy life without a kidney, more functional variety among the weapons and other improvements.

Sver

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Re: [47.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.7)
« Reply #189 on: April 03, 2020, 07:26:44 pm »

Introducing a new feature - Metal rework!
Comes in two parts, one of which is included by default, and the other as an optional.
(separate post for linking purposes)

Default part:

- New metals: rusty iron, wrought iron and hardened bronze. Dwarven steel has been removed, and tempered steel has been adapted into the new metals' balance.
- All metals (except rusty iron) have their Shear (edged resistance) values set to that of tempered steel, but their Impact (blunt resistance), Sharpness (edged power) and other values vary. This sets a better balance for armor penetration, preventing "gamey" oddities such as steel cutting through work-hardened bronze plate. Also, none of them can be made into crafts or such, their only civilian uses being constructions and tools.
  -- Rusty iron is light, brittle, with very poor edge; implying a work-hardened iron that has corroded overtime, thus, it's a bit tougher, although less sharp than vanilla iron. Very cheap, intended mainly for embark items. It cannot be made into ranged weapons or armor.
  -- Wrought iron is still brittle and with poor edge compared to tempered steel, but is cheaper. Good for mail, hacking/stabbing weapons and piercing ammo. All-purpose.
  -- Hardened bronze is dense, hard, with decent edge and durability, but dependent on trading for tin/copper. Good for high-impact weapons/ammo, and small armorpieces. All-purpose.
  -- Tempered steel is durable, flexible, with good edge, but very costly to make. Good for everything. It cannot be made into mining picks.
- New metals have much more elaborate creation processes, requiring multiple industries be involved. Here's a crappy mspaint flowchart.
  -- Wrought iron and tempered steel take a lot more coal per bar than hardened bronze, as theire creation process requires higher temperature and multiple reheatings. They also both need "maintenance materials" (grease and wax as water-repellents and lubricants, vinegar and sand as rust remedies), with wrought iron being more needy in amount, although not being dependent on wax, unlike tempered steel.
  -- Tempered steel takes additional coal to increase carbon content.
  -- Hardened bronze needs molds to be cast into, taking 3 mold parts per bar, but does not require any maintenance.
- New ore: bog iron. Idea credit to Warlord255.
  -- Can be found in veins in some aquifer-bearing topsoils. "Deep Soil", "Light Aquifer", "Shallow Metal(s)" and the absence of "Sand" is a good four-point indicator that a location has bog iron. Veins can sometimes surface out of the ground, but otherwise require prospecting through the aquifer. Open quarries with drains are recommended for easier mining.
  -- Smelts into 4 rusty iron bars (at 100% chance) and 0-4 iron bars (at 88% chance).
  -- Very heavy. Wheelbarrows/minecarts recommended for transportation. Caravans are unlikely to bring it.
- Anvils can now be made at the Smelter.

Optional part:

- All metals except rusty iron, wrought iron, hardened bronze, tempered steel and candy are no longer usable for military purposes.
- Wrought iron and rusty iron can now be made into crafts, furniture etc.
- Vanilla iron is no longer usable for anything but anvils.
- New metals (except rusty iron) have been renamed into their "unprefixed" counterparts for cleaner item/equipment interface.
  -- "Wrought iron" to "iron".
  -- "Hardened bronze" to "bronze".
  -- "Tempered steel" to "steel".
- Vanilla iron, bronze and steel have been renamed for distinction.
  -- "Iron" to "bloomery iron".
  -- "Bronze" to "soft bronze".
  -- "Steel" to "mild steel".
- All iron-bearing ores additionally yield rusty iron, essentially doubling all iron yields.
- Increased Sharpness for chert and malachite to make them usable for stone weapons, as is obsidian in vanilla.
- Mod's reactions that used to require vanilla metals (like copper for copper daggers) now require the full list of components for a new metal (for instance, you can forge hardened bronze daggers directly from tin and copper). This is mainly for backwards compatibility with entity files, but also allows to save up a bit of fuel and, sometimes, metal.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2020, 05:59:27 pm by Sver »
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DF Combat Reworked
No overpowered force transfer, no easy life without a kidney, more functional variety among the weapons and other improvements.

Sver

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Re: [47.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.7)
« Reply #190 on: April 03, 2020, 07:31:33 pm »

A new poll is up.
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Chaosegg

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Re: [47.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.7)
« Reply #191 on: April 04, 2020, 09:36:48 am »

This mod looks exactly like what I want in a game...
in this game...
in all games?
It would be great to have someone like Sver working on all my games!

Major/big thumbs-up, and I'll report back  after I've given it a proper test run.


P.S.
I just installed clinodev's Vetlinger-packaged pack from the DFFD and began a fort to see how I liked his graphics compared with my usual Ironhand.
Definitely more stylish, pretty and "cool", though I've a few things I might change about some of the stone/gem icons if given the opportunity.
Overall, 97% awesome, and a realism mod to add-on to it would only triple the size of my inner-grin.
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Taffer

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Re: [44.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.6)
« Reply #192 on: April 04, 2020, 02:02:36 pm »

Taffer hasn't updated his mod so far, so that installation point shall be obscured for now.

Working on it. I'm trying to take my time to really think about what features I want to focus on, and what I want to revert. Also trying to report things on the bug tracker; for all the community wants to fix things, not all of these raw fixes were ever reported to Toady.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2020, 02:29:13 pm by Taffer »
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Sver

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Re: [44.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.6)
« Reply #193 on: April 04, 2020, 04:13:33 pm »

Working on it.

Good to hear! Didn't mean to poke you about that though - I know these things take time and effort.

Also trying to report things on the bug tracker; for all the community wants to fix things, not all of these raw fixes were ever reported to Toady.

You mean, the sort of fixes Revised works around, like that "item-thieving creatures 'steal' their own clothes and turn around at the map border"?
« Last Edit: April 04, 2020, 04:15:29 pm by Sver »
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DF Combat Reworked
No overpowered force transfer, no easy life without a kidney, more functional variety among the weapons and other improvements.

Taffer

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Re: [44.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.6)
« Reply #194 on: April 04, 2020, 04:16:36 pm »

Good to hear! Didn't mean to poke you about that though - I know these things take time and effort.

You didn't, I was just reading your thread and noticed your comment.

You mean, the sort of things Revised works around, like that "item-thieving creatures 'steal' their own clothes and turn around at the map border"?

Just a few textual fixes so far. I've never actually seen that bug in action before; verifying it is on my to-do list for the next release, because I want to either revert the change or report it. Have you seen it? Thanks for the reminder!
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