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Author Topic: What’s the difference between channeling and making ramps?  (Read 2410 times)

Antmf

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Little confused by this. Thank you.
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Werdna

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Re: What’s the difference between channeling and making ramps?
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2018, 10:07:15 am »

Imagine a grave digger.  Digging a normal grave would be the equivalent of Channeling - he's digging down from his current plane, initially leaving a dirt ramp into the earth below.  In time he would eventually enter the hole, and dig out that dirt ramp to make room for the coffin (Remove Upward Stairs/Ramps).  Let's say he removes that ramp, but his buddy isn't there to pull him out of the steep hole he has now created.  To get out, he could dig an Up Ramp in the side of the grave wall.

So Channel essentially destroys a wall on your level (if there is one), removes the floor, and leaves a ramp in the tile beneath it, giving you access to the level below you.  Dig 'Up Ramp' transforms a wall on your current level into a ramp, and destroys the tile above that ramp, giving you access to the level above you.

« Last Edit: May 11, 2018, 10:12:31 am by Werdna »
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Bumber

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Re: What’s the difference between channeling and making ramps?
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2018, 12:08:03 pm »

Put simply, dig ramp is like channeling upwards, but it doesn't work if your tile is already dug out.
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Ulfarr

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Re: What’s the difference between channeling and making ramps?
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2018, 12:16:09 pm »

While the above distinction is how those two should function, sometimes dwarves don't respect that. If for example you designate some tiles to be channeled down on z-level = 0 and a dwarf can reach said tiles on z-level = -1 then they might prefer to dig upward (make a ramp ) than dig downward.

Keep this in mind when designating large areas for said actions because it can result in accidents, should a cave in occur.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: What’s the difference between channeling and making ramps?
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2018, 12:25:17 pm »

True, dorfs may elect to convert one to the other, but only some of the time. At other times they sit and sulk until another miner comes and dig from the "correct" direction. It might be connected with whether both sides are available at the time of designation or not, or something like that.

When they can go either way I've started designating both a ramp and a channel so the miner doesn't have to be rescued by another miner because things were dug in the "wrong" order, e.g. due to climbing out of holes. That results in a cancellation message when the second order cannot be performed because the ramp is already there.
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Bumber

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Re: What’s the difference between channeling and making ramps?
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2018, 06:07:31 pm »

While the above distinction is how those two should function, sometimes dwarves don't respect that. If for example you designate some tiles to be channeled down on z-level = 0 and a dwarf can reach said tiles on z-level = -1 then they might prefer to dig upward (make a ramp ) than dig downward.

Keep this in mind when designating large areas for said actions because it can result in accidents, should a cave in occur.
The function of the "up ramp" designation is that if you designate up ramps on z-level = 0, they'll dig out z-level = +1. The location they dig from is beside the point.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2018, 06:13:46 pm by Bumber »
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THE xTROLL FUR SOCKx RUSE WAS A........... DISTACTION        the carp HAVE the wagon

A wizard has turned you into a wagon. This was inevitable (Y/y)?

anewaname

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Re: What’s the difference between channeling and making ramps?
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2018, 07:51:27 pm »

When I want to dig out areas on the surface to create a moat or to level the ground, and have found that designating ramps rather than channelling causes fewer issues with one dwarf digging out the ground that another dwarf was standing on (which causes a collapse and can kill the dwarf), to the point where this is my preferred choice of the two methods. This is directly related what Ulfarr said.

Just do not forget that both 'channel' and 'ramp' effects two z-levels at once.
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Quietust

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Re: What’s the difference between channeling and making ramps?
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2018, 08:53:56 pm »

Back in older versions (i.e. 0.28.181.40d and earlier), digging a Channel did not create a Ramp in the excavated tile, so the two jobs were distinctly different; Toady changed it in version 0.31 for some reason.
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clockwork

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Re: What’s the difference between channeling and making ramps?
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2018, 04:39:43 pm »

Back in older versions (i.e. 0.28.181.40d and earlier), digging a Channel did not create a Ramp in the excavated tile, so the two jobs were distinctly different; Toady changed it in version 0.31 for some reason.

I think it makes sense from a perspective of consistency within the abstraction of physics i.e. It's difficult to dig a deep hole while remaining entirely above ground.
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Saiko Kila

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Re: What’s the difference between channeling and making ramps?
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2018, 05:26:13 am »

 There is differnce in floor removal, which is not quaranteed with the ramp order.

 If you use the exploit to dig ramp from under a bridge, but the location is available from above too, the dwarf can choose. Either he comes from above, and digs a channel (removing the floor, and creating a ramp underneath), or he can go under the bridge, create a ramp and normally remove the floor. Now if you build the wall over the floor to be removed, he comes from below, but does not remove the natural floor - it will be revealed once the built wall is removed. If he has an order to channel, he would do nothing.
 
 Similar less exploitative difference is if there's door above. You can't even order a channeling over it, but you can order creating a ramp below, which would create a ramp, but won't remove the floor above, the one over which the door is installed. This way, with carve ramp order, you can choose whether you want the floor above it removed or not.
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mikekchar

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Re: What’s the difference between channeling and making ramps?
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2018, 01:29:30 am »

Although only tangentially related, the biggest thing that helped me understand ramps is that there are no "down ramps" in the game.  The downward pointing arrow is not a down ramp.  It's an indication that there is a ramp on the tile below.  If you walk into the space with the downward arrow, then you are walking into space. You fall to the level below, which happens to have a ramp on it.  This is important when the ramp happens to be submerged in water, because you can slip and drown (which is why you should "walk carefully" in adventure mode when falling onto ramps that are in the water -- alt-move).
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