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Author Topic: Dwarf Fortress 0.44.10 Released  (Read 13107 times)

lethosor

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.44.10 Released
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2018, 08:07:20 am »

Was there some problem with stress in Dwarf Fortress v0.44.09?
Not just 0.44.09 - people have been complaining about it for a long time. I'm not sure when it started being an issue, but it was after 0.34, maybe in 0.40 or 0.42.
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There was a typo in the siegers' campfire code. When the fires went out, so did the game.

martinuzz

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.44.10 Released
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2018, 08:18:08 am »

Awesome! Super-excited about stress fixes. Can't wait to finally see a tantrum spiral devour my fortress again!
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Detros

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.44.10 Released
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2018, 10:20:00 am »

  • Allowed nicknaming of all buildings/zones/stockpiles
  • Can now zoom to item and unit for item inaccessible announcements
  • Separated thoughts for seeing somebody die and finding the body
Ooh, those are some yummy tweaks.
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voliol

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.44.10 Released
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2018, 11:06:19 am »

(Lack of) Stress started being an issue in 0.40, and I believe there were some tweaking to prevent it in 0.42, but that also added alcohol so overall the problem got even worse.

Shazbot

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.44.10 Released
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2018, 03:00:55 pm »

Stress has been fundamentally broken in one way or another since legendary dining halls put dwarven mental health care on autopilot.
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Orkel

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.44.10 Released
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2018, 04:51:51 pm »

Memory system does need some balancing. Cleaning up after sieges is pretty much impossible because it turns dwarves nuts.

Guy lives in a royal bedroom full of gold, wears masterwork clothing, was promoted to a baron, has constant active crafting jobs, a family, enjoys tavern performances, legendary lavish meals, varied booze, and legendary dining rooms, but reliving seeing that goblin corpse from 4 years ago makes me so stressed and depressed...
« Last Edit: May 06, 2018, 04:54:02 pm by Orkel »
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Lunardog15

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.44.10 Released
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2018, 05:13:09 pm »

so in other words they all have PTSD now
perhaps it needs some toning down? or you know it is now more realistic.
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thvaz

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.44.10 Released
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2018, 05:22:30 pm »

Maybe should we set up now a cleaning team of hardened butchers and soldiers instead of allowing every dwarf to clean after sieges?

edit: it looks like the stuttering issue is back with a vengeance
« Last Edit: May 06, 2018, 08:02:09 pm by thvaz »
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.44.10 Released
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2018, 05:25:10 pm »

Memory system does need some balancing. Cleaning up after sieges is pretty much impossible because it turns dwarves nuts.

Guy lives in a royal bedroom full of gold, wears masterwork clothing, was promoted to a baron, has constant active crafting jobs, a family, enjoys tavern performances, legendary lavish meals, varied booze, and legendary dining rooms, but reliving seeing that goblin corpse from 4 years ago makes me so stressed and depressed...
Statistically is it actually pushing him closer to insanity as the years drag on, or is the furniture helping keep things in balance? I mean, we all relieve our days as corpse haulers from time to time.

I guess the bigger issue is the lack of historical memories right now. As incomprehensible as it seems to us for a dwarven king to be shocked by a mutilated goblin corpse, right now the system makes each dwarf an innocent blank slate; never having known death, miasma or golden furniture.

Might start to make more sense when memories are further divided by life stage (and hopefully historical memories too one day, although I guess that'll be hard for 'void dorfs').
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IndigoFenix

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.44.10 Released
« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2018, 02:47:12 am »

The stress effects would be realistic if dwarves could choose to simply leave the fortress instead of going insane.  Can they do that yet?

Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.44.10 Released
« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2018, 03:38:03 am »

The stress effects would be realistic if dwarves could choose to simply leave the fortress instead of going insane.  Can they do that yet?
Not yet, but I imagine it's planned as it would make far more sense to leave than to go insane (except in certain societies). So, whenever stress seems impossibly unfair, remember future features before calling for the nerf.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.44.10 Released
« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2018, 04:31:56 am »

The stress effects would be realistic if dwarves could choose to simply leave the fortress instead of going insane.  Can they do that yet?
Not yet, but I imagine it's planned as it would make far more sense to leave than to go insane (except in certain societies). So, whenever stress seems impossibly unfair, remember future features before calling for the nerf.
Well, "future features" are in the (far) future, while a nerf/re-balance might be a lot closer. It's a bit like e.g. allowing visitors to steal items (including artifacts they seek) by just walking up to them, pick them up and leave without any notice until it's too late (when they leave the map), claiming it's OK because it's planned to eventually implement guard functionality and declaring parts of the fortress off limits for visitors (the current ability to exclude visitors from using facilities has no effect on their ability to access the facilities, just on their ability to use them). Each phase needs to be at least crudely balanced, and when future abilities are implemented that ought to go hand in hand with a re-balancing of things affected (which, of course, may result in "nah, no change as it'll still work sufficiently well"). Note that I have yet to form an opinion on the just adjusted stress system, so the comment is a general one.
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Inarius

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.44.10 Released
« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2018, 04:58:20 am »

Is it the last patch before the "great one", or are more to come in the next months ?
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WordsandChaos

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.44.10 Released
« Reply #28 on: May 07, 2018, 05:10:28 am »

I wonder if "hardening" to certain stimulus would be an 'answer'? A person might freak out after their first corpse, but after their hundredth they're not likely to care. They might still have a severe problem with being assaulted however. It's one thing for it happen to other people, quite another to have it happen to you personally. If I have it correctly, currently Dwarves care about everything, from bread to their mothers, on a singular scale. Splitting might dull or negate their response to specific stimuli over time (he said putting on his armchair psychologist's hat) while leaving others open. It could also have a knock on affect of differentiating them personality wise a little more. One Urist shakes the mandible of the Giant Cave Spider, other other runs screaming in the other direction.

That said, I imagine splitting their concerns into subcategories is a significantly hefty task and would probably require a a slew of changes to god knows how many files. The other problem is whether there are enough broad categories of trauma for a dwarf to experience over their lifetime to make splitting their concerns like that worthwhile. Currently they're mostly concerned with death and beer and not much else. One person might be able to cope with a dead body, but will utterly breakdown if their lover walks out or cheats on them. Dwarves, at current, don't have the capability to be concerned about their close connections beyond those people dying. Then, I suppose you move on to the problem of psychological/emotional callousing affecting other aspects of a person's psyche. Been through some rough times? You're probably less likely to respond as dramatically as a more "sheltered" person, though the specific circumstance is wildly different from your specific traumatic event. At the very extreme end of the spectrum I suppose it's not entirely dissimilar to the dwarven 'doesn't care about anything anymore'.

I suppose this goes to show that there's a reason people spend years in university for this stuff. it all gets very complicated very quickly. I get the impression that you could spend a year or more just working on psychology simulation alone and still end up with a system that would end up at once recognisable and simultaneously awkward. Either way the implementation of memories alone is, I think, something very few developers, if any, have really done before. As far as solutions to problems goes it's inspired so I'm excited.   
« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 05:15:22 am by WordsandChaos »
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Japa

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.44.10 Released
« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2018, 05:34:12 am »

Urist Mc Dwarf felt much better after having a shoulder to cry on.

« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 05:40:12 am by Japa »
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