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Author Topic: Dwarf Fortress 0.44.10 Released  (Read 17803 times)

Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.44.10 Released
« Reply #30 on: May 07, 2018, 06:17:39 am »

Is it the last patch before the "great one", or are more to come in the next months ?
Patches are due to continue until about September/October. Armies, villains, hill dwarves, aggressive expansion and improved sieges are all up for implementation. Dev notes page has the full list (won't all get done).
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.44.10 Released
« Reply #31 on: May 07, 2018, 07:28:30 am »

Is it the last patch before the "great one", or are more to come in the next months ?
Patches are due to continue until about September/October. Armies, villains, hill dwarves, aggressive expansion and improved sieges are all up for implementation. Dev notes page has the full list (won't all get done).
As said, this arc is far from finished. The dev page lists the stuff under *consideration* for implementation in this arc, and it should definitely be stressed that all of it will *not* be implemented in this arc, adding emphasis on what Shonai_Dweller (and Toady originally) said. It will probably have some similarity to the 0.40.X arc, where things were added bit by bit with bugs fixed along the way as well as in more or less pure bug fix releases. Some of the new things added will probably need adjustments/tweaks to be reasonably balanced for instance (like the brand new memory system, where there's a need to see what happens first).
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Rubik

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.44.10 Released
« Reply #32 on: May 07, 2018, 10:04:01 am »

@Japa
It would be cool if dwarves could actually seek help
from a practical point, I think most would prefer depressed dwarves (but with a determined personality) to have atleast a chance of becoming functional individuals before inevitably commiting suicide
I wonder if this is suggestion worthy
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thvaz

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.44.10 Released
« Reply #33 on: May 07, 2018, 10:38:20 am »

@Japa
It would be cool if dwarves could actually seek help
from a practical point, I think most would prefer depressed dwarves (but with a determined personality) to have atleast a chance of becoming functional individuals before inevitably commiting suicide
I wonder if this is suggestion worthy

There is an old system in place where stressed dwarves go to the expedition leader or mayor to complain. This gets them a happy feeling.
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Rubik

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.44.10 Released
« Reply #34 on: May 07, 2018, 11:40:52 am »

Forgot about that

I meant a mechanic to actually be able to recover depressed dwarves
Now, when a mood fails, or someone got mad, he was lost forever, nothing vanilla can fix a crazy dwarf
Now that this update got in, dwarfs are gonna be more realistic and actually get crazy more and more
Why not keep up this, and actually make crazyness realistic, being able to give a 'last chance' speeches to dwarves

Anyway, I'm rambling. My point is that as dwarves' morale becomes again a new threat to take under consideration (kinda more extreme than before with the new memories system), another part of the health 'Industry' can come up
I can see some new health profession to treat dwarves being a copy-paste of the animal training menu, choosing the therapist for each dwarf and so
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Orkel

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.44.10 Released
« Reply #35 on: May 07, 2018, 03:19:37 pm »

Would be nice to have successful raids produce fort-wide happy thoughts. Like, send The Sack of Foraging to attack a nearby goblin fort, successfully come back with loot and it'll give dwarves a "Was satisfied/happy/glad to see The Sack of Foraging return from a raid"

This could also add a tactical level late-game where if your fort is suffering from tantrums and depression, taking risks in sending out raids to boost your fort's morale would be an option.
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Quote from: madjoe5
Dwarf Fortress: The game in which people place abducted children in a furnace to see what happens.

Lunardog15

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.44.10 Released
« Reply #36 on: May 07, 2018, 03:38:31 pm »

Would be nice to have successful raids produce fort-wide happy thoughts. Like, send The Sack of Foraging to attack a nearby goblin fort, successfully come back with loot and it'll give dwarves a "Was satisfied/happy/glad to see The Sack of Foraging return from a raid"

This could also add a tactical level late-game where if your fort is suffering from tantrums and depression, taking risks in sending out raids to boost your fort's morale would be an option.
+1
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everything is fine
 everything is on fire
I see no difference between these two phrases.
only at modded hell does this make sense

thvaz

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.44.10 Released
« Reply #37 on: May 07, 2018, 03:57:07 pm »

Would be nice to have successful raids produce fort-wide happy thoughts. Like, send The Sack of Foraging to attack a nearby goblin fort, successfully come back with loot and it'll give dwarves a "Was satisfied/happy/glad to see The Sack of Foraging return from a raid"

This could also add a tactical level late-game where if your fort is suffering from tantrums and depression, taking risks in sending out raids to boost your fort's morale would be an option.

Toady likes to use personalities where possible. Pacifistic dwarves could dislike raids, for instance.
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Lunardog15

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.44.10 Released
« Reply #38 on: May 07, 2018, 04:03:40 pm »

Would be nice to have successful raids produce fort-wide happy thoughts. Like, send The Sack of Foraging to attack a nearby goblin fort, successfully come back with loot and it'll give dwarves a "Was satisfied/happy/glad to see The Sack of Foraging return from a raid"

This could also add a tactical level late-game where if your fort is suffering from tantrums and depression, taking risks in sending out raids to boost your fort's morale would be an option.

Toady likes to use personalities where possible. Pacifistic dwarves could dislike raids, for instance.
good idea
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everything is fine
 everything is on fire
I see no difference between these two phrases.
only at modded hell does this make sense

Orkel

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.44.10 Released
« Reply #39 on: May 07, 2018, 07:19:58 pm »

Toady, does the attribute of memory affect something in the new system? For example, a dwarf with poor memory, will he forget about things faster / cycle memories in and out more often?
What about the opposite, a dwarf with let's say astonishing memory?
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Quote from: madjoe5
Dwarf Fortress: The game in which people place abducted children in a furnace to see what happens.

Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.44.10 Released
« Reply #40 on: May 07, 2018, 07:57:02 pm »

Toady, does the attribute of memory affect something in the new system? For example, a dwarf with poor memory, will he forget about things faster / cycle memories in and out more often?
What about the opposite, a dwarf with let's say astonishing memory?
No (fotf reply last week).

Quote
Quote from: golemgunk
Are memory slots going to be tied to the Memory attribute?

This kind of major emotional memories seem like something that everybody would have if they have a memory at all...  memory as an attribute should be more subtle.  Of course, right now it's so subtle as to be useless, so something has to give somewhere.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 07:59:18 pm by Shonai_Dweller »
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Orkel

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.44.10 Released
« Reply #41 on: May 07, 2018, 08:01:04 pm »

Toady, does the attribute of memory affect something in the new system? For example, a dwarf with poor memory, will he forget about things faster / cycle memories in and out more often?
What about the opposite, a dwarf with let's say astonishing memory?
No (fotf reply last week).

Quote
Quote from: golemgunk
Are memory slots going to be tied to the Memory attribute?

This kind of major emotional memories seem like something that everybody would have if they have a memory at all...  memory as an attribute should be more subtle.  Of course, right now it's so subtle as to be useless, so something has to give somewhere.

Ah, didn't see that. Maybe in the future then
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Quote from: madjoe5
Dwarf Fortress: The game in which people place abducted children in a furnace to see what happens.

martinuzz

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.44.10 Released
« Reply #42 on: May 08, 2018, 06:21:37 am »

@Japa
It would be cool if dwarves could actually seek help
from a practical point, I think most would prefer depressed dwarves (but with a determined personality) to have atleast a chance of becoming functional individuals before inevitably commiting suicide
I wonder if this is suggestion worthy
I think the 'having a shoulder to cry on' is already in game. It might have become a rare thing, with visitors and all using up much of the expedition leader / mayor's attend meeting time, but IIRC, unhappy dwarves sometimes attend a meeting with the leader, and one of the possible thoughts resulting from that (next to 'was happy to have someone to yell at') is the shoulder to cry on thought. I could misremember though, not 100% sure.
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Daniel the Finlander

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.44.10 Released
« Reply #43 on: May 08, 2018, 08:26:58 am »

I wonder if "hardening" to certain stimulus would be an 'answer'? A person might freak out after their first corpse, but after their hundredth they're not likely to care. They might still have a severe problem with being assaulted however. It's one thing for it happen to other people, quite another to have it happen to you personally. If I have it correctly, currently Dwarves care about everything, from bread to their mothers, on a singular scale. Splitting might dull or negate their response to specific stimuli over time (he said putting on his armchair psychologist's hat) while leaving others open. It could also have a knock on affect of differentiating them personality wise a little more. One Urist shakes the mandible of the Giant Cave Spider, other other runs screaming in the other direction.

That said, I imagine splitting their concerns into subcategories is a significantly hefty task and would probably require a a slew of changes to god knows how many files. The other problem is whether there are enough broad categories of trauma for a dwarf to experience over their lifetime to make splitting their concerns like that worthwhile. Currently they're mostly concerned with death and beer and not much else. One person might be able to cope with a dead body, but will utterly breakdown if their lover walks out or cheats on them. Dwarves, at current, don't have the capability to be concerned about their close connections beyond those people dying. Then, I suppose you move on to the problem of psychological/emotional callousing affecting other aspects of a person's psyche. Been through some rough times? You're probably less likely to respond as dramatically as a more "sheltered" person, though the specific circumstance is wildly different from your specific traumatic event. At the very extreme end of the spectrum I suppose it's not entirely dissimilar to the dwarven 'doesn't care about anything anymore'.

I suppose this goes to show that there's a reason people spend years in university for this stuff. it all gets very complicated very quickly. I get the impression that you could spend a year or more just working on psychology simulation alone and still end up with a system that would end up at once recognisable and simultaneously awkward. Either way the implementation of memories alone is, I think, something very few developers, if any, have really done before. As far as solutions to problems goes it's inspired so I'm excited.

Dwarves do get hardened, that feature has been in the game for years. There's a "discipline" skill which makes dwarves less likely to get stress from combat and death and military dwarves improve it usually, meaning that your corpse-cleaners should be hardened army veterans and not cheesemakers. Dwarves also respond to different situations differently depending on their traits. Some dwarves are very prone to stress and are cowards; making such a dwarf into a soldier would result in a mentally broken dwarf. Some dwarves are fearless and aggressive and make ideal warriors.

also this kinda belongs to the suggestions forum rather than this thread
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chances are their heads are being melted completely off due to pain forcing them to cry and tears don't evaporate so they just increase in temperature searing through the skull to the brain.

TomiTapio

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.44.10 Released
« Reply #44 on: May 08, 2018, 11:30:02 am »

Anyone getting a lot of "pickup equipment" errors?  Cannot find path, or a dwarf spending months in a "pickup equipment" state.

I have a feeling that "saw dead body in a stockpile" is wayyyyy more stress-causing now.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2018, 11:54:50 am by TomiTapio »
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==OldGenesis mod== by Deon & TomiTapio, 0.44.12c, vanillalike but more races and workshops. Blood spatter stress; whiskey truly cheers you.
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