Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic: fishing and workshop orders: a plea  (Read 4191 times)

Su

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
    • Angel Island Zone
fishing and workshop orders: a plea
« on: May 09, 2018, 12:29:40 am »

tldr: please make fishing an order

Just about everyone who's played dwarf fortress for any length of time knows how ridiculous and frustrating fishing currently is. Dwarves with the labor enabled and access to water will immediately begin spending inordinate amounts of their time fishing, regardless of whether the facilities to handle the cleaning of their spoils exists - resulting more often than not in a mountain of rotten fish that is of no use to anybody, and if the facilities are present, an additional mountain of shells that will probably decay before being used [but that's another matter], slowing down the game and taking up a tremendous amount of stockpile space.

If a player would rather not have this problem, they have to go through each individual dwarf and new migrant to turn the labor off. Sure, they could always use dfhack, but strictly-vanilla players are out of luck - and besides, the flaws of the UI are a much more fundamental problem for another time and not really what is at issue here.

But there is another way. One that would solve all of these problems. A system already in the game, just waiting for the day of its implemention with regards to the fishing labor.

Ladies, Gentlemen, Distinguished watchers of bay12 - I present to you: the orders/workshops menu!

Alongside such trusty options as auto weave thread (l), auto collect webs (w) and auto prepare fish (f), i humbly present to you the idea that the act of fishing itself be added - each fishery having a single "fish" slot, as is the case with looms having one "collect webs" slot; the more fisheries you have, the more automatic fishing jobs are produced.

This would allow players to globally disable fishing in a mere three keys (specifically, o-w-f; i propose the current fishery order be realigned to o-w-p, for "prepare raw fish") as well as curb the dwarves' ravenous lust for bodies of water. Due to the current state of food, most forts will only ever need a single fisher; those that desire more in the short-term could simply que up more fish orders at the fishery, or create more workshops if they find themselves in need of a greater number in the long-term. And should a player never feel the want of engaging in the fishing industry, they might simply never construct a fishery in the first place!

"Ah!" you might cry out in despair as you notice my wording. "If, as you point out, food mechanics might one day be changed so as to make food production harder, then what should be the point of such a change?" Well, dear commentator, i propose the following: allowing the amount of auto-qued jobs to be changed; or, for a solution closer to the functionality we already have, using the manager to que up more fishing jobs.

In any case, having fishing tied to fisheries rather than to the whimsy of dwarves would surely be a boon to any player within the foreseeable future.
Logged

Bumber

  • Bay Watcher
  • REMOVE KOBOLD
    • View Profile
Re: fishing and workshop orders: a plea
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2018, 07:59:58 am »

A standing order for hunting, too. Not sure that should use a workshop. Minecart pushing is also missing.

If a player would rather not have this problem, they have to go through each individual dwarf and new migrant to turn the labor off. Sure, they could always use dfhack, but strictly-vanilla players are out of luck - and besides, the flaws of the UI are a much more fundamental problem for another time and not really what is at issue here.
Well, there is an option to have migrants with no labors enabled.
Logged
Reading his name would trigger it. Thinking of him would trigger it. No other circumstances would trigger it- it was strictly related to the concept of Bill Clinton entering the conscious mind.

THE xTROLL FUR SOCKx RUSE WAS A........... DISTACTION        the carp HAVE the wagon

A wizard has turned you into a wagon. This was inevitable (Y/y)?

MrSelfDestruct

  • Bay Watcher
  • Level 20 Mountain Dwarf Fighter
    • View Profile
Re: fishing and workshop orders: a plea
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2018, 09:34:10 am »

Definitely supporting you here because it would make a lot more sense and a lot less headache as a workshop order. But, for now, DF Therapist with 1 fisherdwarf and 1 cleaner  ;)
Logged
Strike the Earth!

sionlife

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: fishing and workshop orders: a plea
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2018, 02:45:21 pm »

OP Dude, why don't you set the flag SET_LABOR_LISTS in d_init.txt to NO. This disables all main skills from migrants so they are just left with the default hauling skills and feed wounded skills (which you probably want on noobs anyway). However they keep their titles, e.g. Fisherdwarf in the units screen. So whenever you need extra labour for an industry, it is easy to go down and pick an unused dorf, enable the required skill and add a customised profession name, e.g. fisher* (so that you can quickly distinguish in the units screen who you have and haven't assigned skills yet).

Using this simple system, I find no need for Dwarf Therapist, hence the LNP, because I can handle fortresses of 200+ dorfs with ease.
Logged

GoblinCookie

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: fishing and workshop orders: a plea
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2018, 06:53:02 am »

OP Dude, why don't you set the flag SET_LABOR_LISTS in d_init.txt to NO. This disables all main skills from migrants so they are just left with the default hauling skills and feed wounded skills (which you probably want on noobs anyway). However they keep their titles, e.g. Fisherdwarf in the units screen. So whenever you need extra labour for an industry, it is easy to go down and pick an unused dorf, enable the required skill and add a customised profession name, e.g. fisher* (so that you can quickly distinguish in the units screen who you have and haven't assigned skills yet).

Using this simple system, I find no need for Dwarf Therapist, hence the LNP, because I can handle fortresses of 200+ dorfs with ease.

Because that means a mountain of micromanagement as you have to go through the skills of all your immigrants to assign the correct labours. 
Logged

FantasticDorf

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: fishing and workshop orders: a plea
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2018, 07:35:50 am »

Im not completely wholly convinced but tying a 'auto-fish' order to a workshop without compromising upon the existing fishing system i feel would be a better compromise.

A order to stop spontaneous fishing and only fish on demand as queued up by the workshop on the nearest drinking/fishing activity zone or within a burrow, then dwarves can be assigned and whitelisted via manager and some work orders implemented. Very much like web collecting. I apologize if i glossed over any parts of the OP's post with my own suggestions a little bit.

Fisherdwarves will run their auto-behaviour only once a fishery is built similar to loom web-collectors (if not virtually identical)
« Last Edit: May 10, 2018, 07:50:39 am by FantasticDorf »
Logged

Knight Otu

  • Bay Watcher
  • ☺4[
    • View Profile
Re: fishing and workshop orders: a plea
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2018, 11:01:48 am »

One thing to note is that Toady has stated that the V-P-L labor menu is unlikely to survive through the Fortress Starting Scenarios releases, at least for most dwarves/in its current form. Once that happens, some controls for fishing and hunting will be needed. A workshop (or other type of) order seems like a good idea here - if there's deer running about, you can give the order to hunt, if there's a swarm of dragons, you can just not give the orders and keep those dwarves in the relative safety of your fortress.

One might further argue for orders to hunt specific creatures on the map, or to hunt/fish only above-ground/below-ground, perhaps using some 'd'etail menu option.

A standing order for hunting, too. Not sure that should use a workshop.
If it needs a workshop, the butchery seems a good fit to me.
Logged
Direforged Original
Random Raw Scripts - Randomly generated Beasts , Vermin, Hags, Vampires, and Civilizations
Castle Otu

Pancakes

  • Bay Watcher
  • Cancels drink: Too insane
    • View Profile
Re: fishing and workshop orders: a plea
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2018, 11:12:19 am »

Yeah, this seems like a good idea, similar to the auto gather silk order, unless I'm mistaken.
Logged

Miles_Umbrae

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: fishing and workshop orders: a plea
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2018, 06:03:08 pm »

Yeah, it's really frustrating every time a wave of migrants containing fishers and hunters enters the map, because unlike other professions these two apparently don't need to rest after their long journey and instead goes straight to work.
Logged

Bumber

  • Bay Watcher
  • REMOVE KOBOLD
    • View Profile
Re: fishing and workshop orders: a plea
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2018, 07:02:40 pm »

If it needs a workshop, the butchery seems a good fit to me.
Hunting is sort of unique in that it serves a defensive purpose. You might not want a workshop for every hunter. Nor might you want your hunters hauling their heavy quarry all the way back to their individual workshops instead of the closest stockpile.
Logged
Reading his name would trigger it. Thinking of him would trigger it. No other circumstances would trigger it- it was strictly related to the concept of Bill Clinton entering the conscious mind.

THE xTROLL FUR SOCKx RUSE WAS A........... DISTACTION        the carp HAVE the wagon

A wizard has turned you into a wagon. This was inevitable (Y/y)?

Knight Otu

  • Bay Watcher
  • ☺4[
    • View Profile
Re: fishing and workshop orders: a plea
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2018, 11:43:36 am »

Yeah, there are problems having it as a workshop job with the way jobs currently work.
Logged
Direforged Original
Random Raw Scripts - Randomly generated Beasts , Vermin, Hags, Vampires, and Civilizations
Castle Otu

FantasticDorf

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: fishing and workshop orders: a plea
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2018, 03:22:36 pm »

If it needs a workshop, the butchery seems a good fit to me.
Hunting is sort of unique in that it serves a defensive purpose. You might not want a workshop for every hunter. Nor might you want your hunters hauling their heavy quarry all the way back to their individual workshops instead of the closest stockpile.

Patrols and more complicated military AI routines could prescribe this, as aggression & marking neutrals (any neutrals) is usually a factor to the protective element you describe rather than particularly restructing how the job operates. A hunting dog is still as strong as a regular dog but faster with the ability to guise its approach.

In many other ways eventual change to zone based fluid space workshops may radically change the concept of jobs in the game also, so instead of one hunter per workshop you might manually etch out the area the workshop can operate in without using a burrow for range.
Logged

Bumber

  • Bay Watcher
  • REMOVE KOBOLD
    • View Profile
Re: fishing and workshop orders: a plea
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2018, 04:46:53 pm »

Patrols and more complicated military AI routines could prescribe this, as aggression & marking neutrals (any neutrals) is usually a factor to the protective element you describe rather than particularly restructing how the job operates. A hunting dog is still as strong as a regular dog but faster with the ability to guise its approach.

In many other ways eventual change to zone based fluid space workshops may radically change the concept of jobs in the game also, so instead of one hunter per workshop you might manually etch out the area the workshop can operate in without using a burrow for range.
If/when workshops become zones, and can queue jobs in parallel, then it makes sense. In the mean time, there's an old suggestion of mine that's relevant.
Logged
Reading his name would trigger it. Thinking of him would trigger it. No other circumstances would trigger it- it was strictly related to the concept of Bill Clinton entering the conscious mind.

THE xTROLL FUR SOCKx RUSE WAS A........... DISTACTION        the carp HAVE the wagon

A wizard has turned you into a wagon. This was inevitable (Y/y)?

TheBeardyMan

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: fishing and workshop orders: a plea
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2018, 06:09:33 am »

Well, there is an option to have migrants with no labors enabled.
OP Dude, why don't you set the flag SET_LABOR_LISTS in d_init.txt to NO.
No, because that causes the even worse problem of migrants dropping equipment at the edge of the map when they arrive with equipment for labours that aren't enabled.
Logged

Bumber

  • Bay Watcher
  • REMOVE KOBOLD
    • View Profile
Re: fishing and workshop orders: a plea
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2018, 09:51:26 am »

No, because that causes the even worse problem of migrants dropping equipment at the edge of the map when they arrive with equipment for labours that aren't enabled.
That's worse than the fishing?
« Last Edit: June 02, 2018, 09:53:20 am by Bumber »
Logged
Reading his name would trigger it. Thinking of him would trigger it. No other circumstances would trigger it- it was strictly related to the concept of Bill Clinton entering the conscious mind.

THE xTROLL FUR SOCKx RUSE WAS A........... DISTACTION        the carp HAVE the wagon

A wizard has turned you into a wagon. This was inevitable (Y/y)?
Pages: [1] 2