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Author Topic: MSH Mantles Karl Marx -OR- The Crisis Discussion And Essay Thread  (Read 2858 times)

MetalSlimeHunt

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It's late and I'm tired but the five year plan of this long awaited thread can tolerate no more delays.

As has been discussed all over the forum and allegedly, the world, everything is screwed up. Modern human civilization has reached a state of brokenness and stagnation that is simultaneously so blatant that it grinds on us without end and so subtly hidden from sight that much of discussions about these issues take the form of sudden realizing just how fucked up specific facets of the crisis are, and then returning to silence like a person nodding off at the wheel of a car.

This thread has been requested more than once, in more than one form. It has even been requested of my person specifically. While I have differed the creation of this thread out of a desire to not maintain anything less memetastic than DPRK Thread (now ruined by the serious peace and/or war with DPRK in 2018), both recent events in my life as well as a reawoken spirit to respond have lead to it being made at last.

This thread's purpose is twofold. The first is to discuss the nature of and articulate solutions to what I will henceforth refer to as the Crisis. While my intention years previous was to create this thread purely in the context of ecological collapse, it is increasingly clear to myself and hopefully the world that even this immense problem is only one element of the overarching problem with postmodernity. These problems are not independent of one another. They are tied together, and taken as a whole they compose the titular Crisis.

Elements of the Crisis include but are not limited to ecological collapse, energy and resource shortage, social collapse, political and intellectual stagnation, cynicism and demoralization, oppression in all forms, structural corrosion, and the consequences of the great game.

The second purpose of the thread will be to try to develop learning and exchange in the thread, and reach superior quality discussions. Since pleading for not repeating the same five talking points for all eternity is already proven ineffective, my first attempt at this will be through the medium of various books instead of reading their wikipedia articles and pretending I read them. I encourage the rest of you to not use "skim knowledge" as well, and in doing so get as far from reddit quality as possible. I am currently reading Zizek's Welcome to the Desert of the Real and will be commenting on it here after I have finished. Twenty pages in, it looks pretty promising on describing some of the attitudes behind humanity's impending suicide. I'm going to keep the "thread reading" updated if anyone feels like following along, but beware because I will eventually force you to actually read Capital (or at least volume one). It won't all be theorists though, my second book is an outwardly apolitical one about the servant class in late 19th century Britain.

I don't have time for it tonight but my first substantial post will be related to the discussion that pushed me over the edge on this, from the Abusive Policing Thread, and will address the establishment of criminality as well as alternatives to the police state and mass incarceration.

The day is coming that will divide an ascendant humanity from an extinct or degenerate one, and we are not on the right side of that line. If you have something to say, have at it.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2018, 10:06:29 pm by MetalSlimeHunt »
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nenjin

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Re: MSH Mantles Karl Marx -OR- The Crisis Discussion And Essay Thread
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2018, 10:32:33 pm »

I guess my thinking is thus:

Via mechanization and the advancement of science, our species capacity for depleting the environment outpaced the planet's ability to replenish itself. Coupled with globalization putting all nations, races and creeds in contact with each other, and then accelerating the pace at which communication can be facilitated, has culminated in a state where we face ecological collapse soon, and our capacity for communication with all near and far hasn't raised us above our natural shitty human tendencies. It's in many ways just exacerbated them. On a personal, national and global scale, we have the ability to be shit human beings to each other like never before, and that shittiness reverberates and resonates around the world. Where previously you were not exposed to the sheer unknowable mass of humanity at any time, now you are one statement away on any number of mediums. For every thing out that there people of all nations can identify with, I feel like there are so many others that leave your conscious shocked. We're more aware of the rest of the world around us and on balance I don't think it's made us feel warm and connected and united. Rather crowded, put upon or may be even at risk. The signal to noise ratio is so high now sometimes all you start to crave is silence. We're too connected, too stimulated and we've lost touch with our contemplative minds except when shit has gone pear shaped and it's time to brood. We move too fast and consider too little because that's the speed of life these days.

I don't think we're much worse than humans of the previous thousand years. Everyone has looked at their time and thought it was the worst time. Their time is their only true frame of reference, after all. But as a species we've been changed by our advances, and we have started running down the clock on the planet in a way previous generations did not. We're the most knowledgable and advanced we've ever been, but we have the bitter aftertaste of knowledge in our mouths and I think in some ways it has poisoned us. The 1st world has the ennui of having everything they pretty much need and want except contentment, and are left feeling unfulfilled and unhealthy despite being empowered materially, intellectually and spiritually to be both of those. Meanwhile the 3rd world continues to close the gap and raise its standard of living based on the model presented by the 1st world, helping deliver the knockout punch to the environment and possibly to their own health. We know where we are heading with the environment, overpopulation, geopolitical tensions and nuclear war, but we've become jaded, apathetic and territorial in response to it. We think about the sheer mass of other people out there probably not doing their part to not fuck shit up and it leaves us wondering why we should either. If the world is gonna tank regardless, should I spend my time pissing in the wind or getting in as much entertainment before something happens and everything changes and the dank memes disappear. Or to put it someone else's frame of reference, should I be spending time helping others and sacrificing to find a solution, or protecting what I have now and trying to secure it against the future? (The family, the money, the lifestyle, the legacy, etc...)

I'm starting to think if we want to see dramatic changes, it will take something dramatic to spur them. Something that effects everyone equally so no one can really say they don't understand the problem. Like hitting critical levels on the ozone layer. Globally erratic weather patterns that disrupt food production on a massive scale. The end of readily available energy sources enough to fuel the capacity of nations that they do now. Digital terrorism that disrupts the flow of information that people are now literally addicted to, and that we rely on for our day to day. Nuclear war with far reaching global effects. A cosmic disaster which by its nature changes the way we have to live and gets us to roll back some assumptions about what's acceptable.

Enlightenment doesn't usually come without suffering. If the entire species needs to get enlightened, it's gonna take a lot of suffering.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2018, 10:58:56 pm by nenjin »
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MrRoboto75

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Re: MSH Mantles Karl Marx -OR- The Crisis Discussion And Essay Thread
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2018, 10:57:49 pm »

Nothing will change, no one will learn.
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Ispil

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Re: MSH Mantles Karl Marx -OR- The Crisis Discussion And Essay Thread
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2018, 01:05:22 am »

Nothing will change, no one will learn.
Nihilism is a waste of time, effort, energy, and is one of the most repulsive and reprehensible ideologies to deface our civilization with its presence.
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Max™

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Re: MSH Mantles Karl Marx -OR- The Crisis Discussion And Essay Thread
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2018, 01:30:04 am »

Pissing in the wind can be fun as long as you aren't facing the wrong way.

This is both a dumb joke and a less dumb philosophical statement.
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Egan_BW

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Re: MSH Mantles Karl Marx -OR- The Crisis Discussion And Essay Thread
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2018, 01:30:12 am »

Some things are messed up. But that's pretty much always been true. Doesn't seem helpful to claim that the problems we face today are somehow more dramatic or final than the troubles that people have been running into since the beginning of civilization.
The problems themselves are individually complicated and intertwined. I'm not really qualified to offer solutions. But I think being a good person will help some, so I'll try for that.
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Re: MSH Mantles Karl Marx -OR- The Crisis Discussion And Essay Thread
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2018, 10:06:09 am »

PTW, will post later when I actually have time.
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MrRoboto75

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Re: MSH Mantles Karl Marx -OR- The Crisis Discussion And Essay Thread
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2018, 10:18:41 am »

Nothing will change, no one will learn.
Nihilism is a waste of time, effort, energy, and is one of the most repulsive and reprehensible ideologies to deface our civilization with its presence.

This thread is a waste of time, effort, and energy.

If you want something done go outside and do it.  No amount of Bay 12 posts is going to save humanity.
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Ispil

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Re: MSH Mantles Karl Marx -OR- The Crisis Discussion And Essay Thread
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2018, 10:33:25 am »

Coming from the person who thinks it all means jack shit anyway.

The only thing that’s a waste of time here is this discussion.
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Dorsidwarf

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Re: MSH Mantles Karl Marx -OR- The Crisis Discussion And Essay Thread
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2018, 10:37:11 am »

I mean, saying that pessimism that we'll ever sort out our societies suicidal urges is a waste of time is rich on a thread on a second-bit forum for a niche indie game made to discuss How To Save All Of Society: A Debate By The Unqualified And Opinionated
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Re: MSH Mantles Karl Marx -OR- The Crisis Discussion And Essay Thread
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2018, 10:41:33 am »

Oh, I have no illusions about how productive this thread will be. The point is that people are trying. Stifling that over some half-assed “nothing will change” nihilistic bullshit is the exact reason why I hate that shit so much.

Just be glad that people care enough to try, rather than having given up on everything entirely.
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"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire

"I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: 'O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous.' And God granted it."- Voltaire

I transcribe things, too.

Levi

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Re: MSH Mantles Karl Marx -OR- The Crisis Discussion And Essay Thread
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2018, 12:31:14 pm »

I think people have this weird tendency to believe that things can't change.  I've been spending (to much) time on reddit and had a hard time understanding why people argue so vehemently that things need to stay as they are. 

Humanity is our biggest obstacle, but I think there is some hope.  People don't believe things can change until things do change.  The only way to get people to embrace change is to show its possible.

I think Elon Musk is a great example here.  Electric Vehicles were never going to happen until he came along and started Tesla.  Now pretty much every car manufacturer is building or designing electric cars because suddenly people believe its possible and are clamoring for it.

What we need is an Elon Musk that uses his fortune on societal projects.  Somebody who can design and implement better ways of living and show that it can be practical. 
« Last Edit: May 11, 2018, 01:43:52 pm by Levi »
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MrRoboto75

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Re: MSH Mantles Karl Marx -OR- The Crisis Discussion And Essay Thread
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2018, 01:41:31 pm »

Just be glad that people care enough to try, rather than having given up on everything entirely.

Society has given up on me many times.  I honestly think the only reason it pretends to care about me at this point is because suicide is taboo.  Sorry if I want to do the same if it comes crying for help.
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Ispil

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Re: MSH Mantles Karl Marx -OR- The Crisis Discussion And Essay Thread
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2018, 01:57:04 pm »

There's giving up, and there's trying to take everyone down with you.
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"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire

"I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: 'O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous.' And God granted it."- Voltaire

I transcribe things, too.

Trekkin

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Re: MSH Mantles Karl Marx -OR- The Crisis Discussion And Essay Thread
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2018, 03:04:50 pm »

I'm a nihilist and an optimist. There's no reason to life, everyone runs on their own morals, religion is man-made, the whole nine yards. And yet, here I am, promoting the idea that we get to live life once with no meaning, so we should make our own and enjoy it.

Is that not more conventionally called existentialism?
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